GTX 460 vs 5850 w/ rig which?

[techgamer]

This is my rig:

CPU: Intel Q6600 2.4ghz
MOB: Gigabyte P35-DS3P
PSU: Corsair-620HX
RAM: 4gb ddr2
GPU: 8800GT 512mb

I want to upgrade my GPU and after reading a few threads on here i'm looking at these two offers.

EVGA GTX 460 $229
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130571

Gigabyte HD 58580 $259
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125318

Will I have any trouble running either? Which should I pull the plug on? Are there pros/cons about each or is one entirely better? Thanks.

P.S. this is my first time back to anandtech in over a year, am I stuck with having "imported" infront of my name?

 

[happy medium]

Are you going to overclock that cpu? What resolution do you play at and what types of games are you looking to play?

I believe you get metro 2033 with this Evga gtx460 1gb for $220 shipped.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130570

 

[techgamer]

I've never overclocked a cpu before so I guess I'm hesitant. What are the risks vs rewards?

I play at 1920x1200. I am currently playing sc2, plan on getting Civ 5 and I am mainly looking to upgrade my gpu for FFXIV mmo.

As I've done more reading I am finding a lot more people saying bad things about ATI Radeon cards than the NVIDIA GTX cards. How GTX has better overall performance and runs cooler where ATI just has good peak performance and is better for HDMI capabilities. Is this true or just fanboys posting opinions?

 

[dug777]

Here's about the most unbiased/trustworthy set of benchmarks you'll find on the web, IMO, our very own AT Bench

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/164?vs=180

The 5850 runs very cool and quiet, and at the moment I see the cheapest 5850 comes with an overclock as stock to 765 core, so that will add about ~5% to those AT figures.

I understand the GTX 460 is also cool and quiet (see bench for both).

 

[bunnyfubbles]

That's a quality powersupply so you should have plenty of power to spare to drive either card, although the 5850 should draw less power at load on average but also run a tad warmer - but in either case the GTX460 1GB and 5850 are going to have negligibly different temps / power consumption.

A stock Q6600 might hold back either GPU in certain games, particularly ones not coded to take advantage of multi core.

The GTX460 is an easy recommendation when pitted against a $300 5850, however @ $260 its a whole new ball game and the edge probably goes in favor of the 5850 for being more powerful and efficient.

However in your particular situation it might be better to just save money unless you're planning to overclock the processor (or upgrade) and breath new life into the system instead of holding back the video card. I might even recommend going with the 768MB GTX460 for even less.

The P35 is a solid chipset and should be able to push your Q6600 past 3GHz provided it has a decent cooler. Investing ~30-40 in a new heastink/fan might be all you need to hit as realistically high as 3.6GHz, although for a "newb" overclocker it might be more to reasonable to expect ~3.2GHz. But the CPUs and Overclocking forum would be the place to go for further discussion in that regard.

 

[happy medium]

I've never overclocked a cpu before so I guess I'm hesitant. What are the risks vs rewards?

I play at 1920x1200. I am currently playing sc2, plan on getting Civ 5 and I am mainly looking to upgrade my gpu for FFXIV mmo.

As I've done more reading I am finding a lot more people saying bad things about ATI Radeon cards than the NVIDIA GTX cards. How GTX has better overall performance and runs cooler where ATI just has good peak performance and is better for HDMI capabilities. Is this true or just fanboys posting opinions?

At your resolution the 5850 is 8 percent faster.
The temps,noise ,and power usage are so close it doesn't matter.
When it comes to drivers and out of box game support , I'd give the nod to the Nvidia part.

Both chips overclock well.

The gtx460 has a better feature set and will scale better if you ever decide to add another card and sli.

It's up to you weather you wanna pay the extra 40$ for the 5850's extra 8 percent performance advantage.
edit: Evga is the best company to buy from by far as there support is second to none, much better then MSI.

 

[techgamer]

How much performance is gained from overclocking the 2.4 to 3.0 or 3.2?

 

[happy medium]

How do those benchmarks compare to the capability of my computer though. Will I be able to maximize the potential of either card?

Very good question.
At 1900x1080 you cpu at stock still might have some trouble but for most games it will fine .

Overclocking your cpu is very easy and should push both cards just fine.
Aim for a very easy 3.0 ghz.
The guys in the cpu/overclocking section will be happy to help you with that.

 

[dug777]

I have a Q6600 and a 5850 (again a stock 765/1125 part) and they seem excellent bedfellows even with the Q6600 at stock, as would a GTX 460 be I presume

I am currently at 3.3 for the Q6600. Don't notice the difference really at all, but have been benchmarking some stuff lately. Easiest overclock ever

 

[happy medium]

I have a Q6600 and a 5850 (again a stock 765/1125 part) and they seem excellent bedfellows even with the Q6600 at stock, as would a GTX 460 be I presume

I am currently at 3.3 for the Q6600. Don't notice the difference really at all, but have been benchmarking some stuff lately. Easiest overclock ever

?
You see no difference when your cpu is at 2.4 and 3.3?

Thats funny I notice a difference with my cpu at 2.4 and 3.3 with my slow 5750.
Me and Toyota have been through this pretty thoroughly, it will depend on the games your playing though.

 

[dug777]

?
You see no difference when your cpu is at 2.4 and 3.3?

Thats funny I notice a difference with my cpu at 2.4 and 3.3 with my slow 5750.
Me and Toyota have been through this pretty thoroughly, it will depend on the games your playing though.

Only in GTA4 (very noticeable), otherwise not really

Most of the games I play at 19x12 I turn everything up as far as I can go, so I am usually well and truly GPU-bound I guess?

I was also for the last few months using the Asus EPU motherboard software to kick the chip up to 2.7Ghz under load, so maybe my memory has been tricked by the relatively gradual transition to a higher clock speed.

 

[Kenmitch]

The gtx460 has a better feature set and will scale better if you ever decide to add another card and sli.

Doesn't his MB have PCI Express x16 2(1 with PCI-Ex16 lanes,1 with PCI-Ex4 lanes)

Wouldn't he be better off purchasing 1 good card. Maybe keep an eye out for a deal similar to the Fry's Galaxy GTX 470 deal for $249. Then if wanted maybe pick up something for a dedicated physX card if you wanna play around with

On the other hand there's nothing wrong with a HD 5850 if ya kick it up a notch, or two, or three

 

[bunnyfubbles]

IIRC, StarCraft 2 scales pretty linearly with increase in CPU clockrate. The Q6600 @ 3.2GHz could end up being 33% faster in game.

Also, StarCraft 2 tends to favor nVidia GPUs, the GTX460 will likely be just about dead even with the 5850. And it also looks like FFXIV will favor nVidia GPUs as well (could be wrong here but its just what I read most recently). Don't have a clue about about Civ 5. But from the games you listed it seems like your best best is to go with a GTX460.

Use the money saved on a decent cooler for the CPU for your overclocking endeavors

 

[happy medium]

IIRC, StarCraft 2 scales pretty linearly with increase in CPU clockrate. The Q6600 @ 3.2GHz could end up being 33% faster in game.

Also, StarCraft 2 tends to favor nVidia GPUs, the GTX460 will likely be just about dead even with the 5850. And it also looks like FFXIV will favor nVidia GPUs as well (could be wrong here but its just what I read most recently). Don't have a clue about about Civ 5. But from the games you listed it seems like your best best is to go with a GTX460.

Use the money saved on a decent cooler for the CPU for your overclocking endeavors

I agree with bunnyfubbles..

 

[3DVagabond]

At your resolution the 5850 is 8 percent faster.
The temps,noise ,and power usage are so close it doesn't matter.
When it comes to drivers and out of box game support , I'd give the nod to the Nvidia part.

Both chips overclock well.

The gtx460 has a better feature set and will scale better if you ever decide to add another card and sli.

It's up to you weather you wanna pay the extra 40$ for the 5850's extra 8 percent performance advantage.
edit: Evga is the best company to buy from by far as there support is second to none, much better then MSI.

Apparently, Happy, you haven't seen the recent trouble threads at AT about 460 issues. There was supposed to be a driver fix released for them last week, then this week, but hasn't happened yet.

I noticed you haven't posted in those threads. Maybe you somehow didn't see them? Keys has, and good on him for it. I think if someone is always in such a hurry to pitch sales for a product, they should help with advice when it goes pear shaped on people too. Definitely wouldn't be pitching nVidia's awesome driver tech for the 460 over ATI's with the 5850 ATM, though.

 

[happy medium]

Apparently, Happy, you haven't seen the recent trouble threads at AT about 460 issues. There was supposed to be a driver fix released for them last week, then this week, but hasn't happened yet.

I noticed you haven't posted in those threads. Maybe you somehow didn't see them? Keys has, and good on him for it. I think if someone is always in such a hurry to pitch sales for a product, they should help with advice when it goes pear shaped on people too. Definitely wouldn't be pitching nVidia's awesome driver tech for the 460 over ATI's with the 5850 ATM, though.

Yea I seen the 1 thread that one guy was having trouble with his sli gtx 460 setup on release drivers. Whats your point?

The op is not asking about sli.

If you trying to troll, you can stop now,because you do not want me to bring up the 3 or 4 months of hell I put up with with my 5750's drivers and I bought my card 3 months after release. The very reason so many have jumped to Nvidia on this forum, including the hard core red team fan Solofly.

 

[busydude]

If you trying to troll, you can stop now,because you do not want me to bring up the 3 or 4 months of hell I put up with with my 5750's drivers and I bought my card 3 months after release. The very reason so many have jumped to Nvidia on this forum, including the hard core red team fan Solofly.

I would have to disagree man. YMMV.

I have had no issues with my 5750. Stop creating FUD and try to give OP some informed advice.

IMO, op should just get a GTX 460, buy an aftermarket CPU cooler and overclock.

 

[3DVagabond]

Yea I seen the 1 thread that one guy was having trouble with his sli gtx 460 setup on release drivers. Whats your point?

The op is not asking about sli.

If you trying to troll, you can stop now,because you do not want me to bring up the 3 or 4 months of hell I put up with with my 5750's drivers and I bought my card 3 months after release. The very reason so many have jumped to Nvidia on this forum, including the hard core red team fan Solofly.

Trolling? LOL One thread with SLI? Whatever, mate. I said nothing bad about you. I said, good on Keys. I said there's supposed to be a driver fix which is late coming. I said don't be so fast recommending nVidia 460 over ATI 5850 based on drivers. Why should I care if you bring up your driver issues? The way you word it it actually sounds like you're threatening me with your old troubles. WTF? How does that work? I didn't recommend you buy the 5750. Why should I care who has "jumped to nVidia" either?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Might want to wait it out for a month or so:

Possible Radeon HD 67xx series in mid-October ...




--

 

[Skurge]

ATI cards are generally faster in SC2 with AA and much faster in FFXIV (5850 as fast as a 470). That Gigabyte cooler is awesome. One of the best on the market

Your mobo doesn't support SLI and with an x4 slot it might bottleneck another 5850.

Don't worry about drivers with either vendor, you'll be fine. The number of people outside of Xfire/SLI with driver issues are tiny.

I say get the 5850 if you cant wait a month for the 6770.

 

[Skurge]

Are you going to overclock that cpu? What resolution do you play at and what types of games are you looking to play?

I believe you get metro 2033 with this Evga gtx460 1gb for $220 shipped.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130570

2 of the same card with different prices? How does that work?

 

[faxon]

the one he linked only has a 2 year warranty is why

 

[Lonyo]

2 of the same card with different prices? How does that work?

Different overclocks.
$230 @ 765 core, $220 @ 720 core. And RAM difference as well.

 

[RussianSensation]

I've never overclocked a cpu before so I guess I'm hesitant. What are the risks vs rewards?

Almost no risks if you keep the voltage below maximum specs and maintain reasonable temperatures. Q6600 B3 @ 3.2ghz and G0 stepping @ 3.4ghz are most likely doable. Just get a $30 Cooler Master Hyper 212+. Overclocking the Q6600 is the easiest in the world on your board:

1. Flash the board to the latest BIOS from the corporate website using @Bios flashing tool.
2. Set PCIexpress frequency Fixed to 100.
3. Disable all power savings features (C1 states, EIST).
4. Relax ram timings to 5-5-5-15 and increase voltage to 2.0V
5. Increase CPU voltage to 1.425V.
6. Increase MCH and FSB voltage +0.1V
7. Set a lower CPU Ram Ratio (i.e., 2.0 is the lowest on Gigabyte boards) so that your ram isn't running out of spec.
8. Set CPU FSB to 378 FSB for G0 stepping for 3.4ghz, or 356 FSB for B3.

Do stress testing using Orthos, LinX and then go back to #4 and #5 and find the tightest ram timings and the CPU and Ram voltages that ensures stability. You are done.

I am currently playing sc2, plan on getting Civ 5 and I am mainly looking to upgrade my gpu for FFXIV mmo.

And it also looks like FFXIV will favor nVidia GPUs as well (could be wrong here but its just what I read most recently). Don't have a clue about about Civ 5. But from the games you listed it seems like your best best is to go with a GTX460.

Sorry, nVidia, especially the 460 is FAR outclassed by the 5850 in FF14. I mean it's probably the WORST recommendation for that game.
GTX460 is not even a contender. It is 46% slower than ATi 5850 in FF14!
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460_15.html#sect2

Even when overclocked to 800mhz, the GTX460 1GB trails the stock GTX470 and 5850 by a whooping 23-25% in FF14.

Also, don't forget you can overclock 5850 to 900mhz+. It will be EVEN faster than the 5870 which is an unbelievable 72% faster than a GTX460 in FF14.

The performance in SC2 will be similar, however: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/starcraft2-wings-of-liberty_5.html#sect1

Regardless, since you haven't overclocked your CPU, you are unlikely to overclock the GTX460. Since GTX460 is only viable over the 5850 when you consider overclock, you should be comparing $260 GTX470 with $260 5850 not GTX460 with the 5850. GTX470 is at least 40% faster at stock speeds over the GTX460 in FF14 and faster in SC2 than both the 5850 and 460. However, it runs louder and consumes more power than the 5850, but it is faster by 7-10% depending on the games.

If you don't overclock the CPU, you will be CPU limited in SC2 and a ton of other games. Personally, 460 is a non-contender since you mainly are looking at FFIV where it can only manage 40 fps @ 1920x1080.

Add to the fact that ATI cards are less sensitive to CPU speeds, and my vote is the 5850!!!

P.S. just for reference, if anyone is curious how badly an overclocked 5870 thrashes a GTX480 in FF14, follow this link

 

[SlowSpyder]

Based on the games you mention and only $30 seperatng the GTX460 and 5850, I'd go with the 5850 in this case. The 460 is a very good buy, but that was partly because 5850's were closer to $300 for so long. At $259 I'd get the 5850.