GTX 1070s with inferior Micron VRAM

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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753
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Seems all the early 1070s were shipped with the better, higher overhead Samsung VRAM. It appears there has been a shortage of it and AIBs switched to the inferior Micron VRAM that causes artifacting with small OCs and even at stock 8000mhz in some cases. Nvidia has acknowledged the issue and will provide a new BIOS base for AIBs to provide to their customers for those with the Micron cards.

Not sure how accurate this users assessment of the situation may be, but interesting nonetheless (aside from the hyperbole):

I am pretty convinced that i have this Micron GTX 1070 memory issue figured out with the aid of Micron's GDDR5 datasheet found here https://www.micron.com/products/data...b-595ce11150c4

Micron graphics memory in general is not terrible, but it is a 2nd-tier manufacturer after Samsung, since Samsung GDDR5 has always had a higher quality and headroom across the different generations.

I am talking specifically about Micron's GDDR5 which has a maximum data rate of 8.0 Gb/s

According to its datasheet found here https://www.micron.com/products/data...b-595ce11150c4

Micron GDDR5 operate at data rates of 6.0 Gb/s, 7.0 Gb/s, 8.0 Gb/s (MAX)

8.0 Gb/s being the maximum rated for this memory which could explain why there is no headroom left because at stock settings the memory is already pushed to its limit.

If the same Micron GDDR5 chips were used on a 7 Gb/s rated GPU it would have been great, very stable and would have an amazing OC headroom left ..

The way they have used these Micron GDDR5 modules is bad and makes it of a much lower quality standards than Samsung's GDDR5 which appear to support up to 9 Gb/s and so it has that great headroom and stability ..

This cheaping out on components is not a good thing, you could cheap out on coolers, chokes, power phases, or any other GPU component, it will still operate at stock settings but will provide an overall lower quality and performance.

If you imagine that the highest binned GTX 1070 cards like the MSI Gaming Z, EVGA FTW, Asus Strix OC, Zotac AMP! Extreme, Gigabyte Xtreme, have all switched to Micron's lower quality chips when on other parts of the cards they are using premium components you will realize this whole thing must be orchestrated by NVIDIA as a direct design change to downgrade the GTX 1070 ..

When you also know that in previous generations (700 and 900 series) top binned cards were all using Samsung, you will realize that AIBs had no control over this because it is Nvidia who ordered them to do so.

Also when you think about the amount of vagueness, shadiness and secrecy surrounding this decision, and the fact that Nvidia and all its partners refuse to give any information about the switch, you will know how messed up this situation is.

I also predict that no fix will ever be provided because it is meant to be and stay this way, that the GTX 1070 has been downgraded and capped at a max 8Ghz memory for business and financial reasons, and it is manipulative that this has been done after review samples were sent out, if they have done this from the very beginning, reactions would have been very different.

It looks like Samsung's GDDR5 memory was of a much higher quality and headroom than Nvidia liked them to be, to position the GTX 1070 in a certain performance category compared to its GTX 1080 and other products in its lineup, so they have downgraded the card to cap its memory performance for business reasons, but can't publicly announce what they have done.

Also Founder's Edition cards look to be drying up in my market, and all what will be left of the GTX 1070 till the end of the generation is AIB cards with the downgraded Micron GDDR5 with a max data rate of 8 Gb/s

I am very much convinced that this analysis with the aid of Micron's GDDR5 datasheet is pretty accurate and reflects what actually happened behind the scenes.

Also when the card is already selling way above its MSRP and since now its performance has been downgraded it should have least come down to its MSRP level to reflect the cheaper, lower quality memory chips now being used

Downgrading the card's performance while still keeping it way above its MSRP after review samples have been sent out with better quality components and staying in total silence and denial about the situation, makes this unacceptable from a consumer stand-point and i predict the GTX 1070 prices will start coming down to reflect its new value proposition and lower demand after this move.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?87773-ASUS-Strix-1070-ALL-Using-Micron-Memory-ICs&p=610029&viewfull=1#post610029
Now I was aware of this earlier but not the potential scale of the problem it may turn out to be. Have a 1070 on the way and thought it may be a lottery buy with some Samsungs and others Micron. But now appears that virtually all new 1070s shipped within last couple months or so are Micron (FE versions still use Samsung). What worries me are a few users who reported no problems with the Micron but then finding artifacting a few weeks later (checkerboard patterns, crashes) and possibly dying cards.

Anyone with Micron vram based 1070s? How are you all doing?
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,697
102
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Interesting!

Good thing with my 30 day return policy from Amazon for my GTX 1070 I just bought. If any problems arise I will return it to Amazon. Got it for $370 but it is more like $310 sense Gears of War 4 comes with it. At least that is the way I look at it. BTW when does my Gears of War 4 key get sent to me ?

Also has the same problem happen to the GTX 1080 ?
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,992
753
136
Ok thank you.

Hmm should I cancel my GTX 1070 order and get a GTX 1080 instead ?
I dont know. If you have no problem with the price difference, then I guess yeah. Otherwise I would probably cancel my order and just wait it out until the issue is resolved. Know someone who got an MSI 1070 Gaming X from Amazon and had memory related issues with it and returned it. They replaced it with a Samsung VRAM version.

This reportedly an MSI (China) announcement of what could be referring to the issue:

http://imgur.com/a/Ge10p

p.s.. why does the post images button not work?
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,697
102
106
I dont know. If you have no problem with the price difference, then I guess yeah. Otherwise I would probably cancel my order and just wait it out until the issue is resolved. Know someone who got an MSI 1070 Gaming X from Amazon and had memory related issues with it and returned it. They replaced it with a Samsung VRAM version.

This reportedly an MSI (China) announcement of what could be referring to the issue:

http://imgur.com/a/Ge10p

p.s.. why does the post images button not work?
Thank you. Did they return it to Amazon or MSI ?

How long did it take?
 

MustISO

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,928
12
81
I was planning on getting a 1070 until I read about this. I guess if I buy locally I can try and find a card with Samsung RAM or wait until they released the updated vBIOS to fix any issues. Kinda sucks it's a lottery with the video cards.
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,697
102
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I was planning on getting a 1070 until I read about this. I guess if I buy locally I can try and find a card with Samsung RAM or wait until they released the updated vBIOS to fix any issues. Kinda sucks it's a lottery with the video cards.
How would you know it had Samsung RAM though ?

Buy from Amazon they will take care of you if there is any problems.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,670
622
126
Interesting. Thankfully I have samsung memory, and I only bought my card a few weeks ago. Slightly older stock perhaps.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,845
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Glad I got my card early on. No artifacts and the puppy clocks high.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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How would you know it had Samsung RAM though ?

Buy from Amazon they will take care of you if there is any problems.
GPU-Z tells me that I have GDDR5 (Micron) memory type. Mines a few months old. I've never had a problem, but now I'm less confident in it. I wish I had not clicked this thread.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,992
753
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GPU-Z tells me that I have GDDR5 (Micron) memory type. Mines a few months old. I've never had a problem, but now I'm less confident in it. I wish I had not clicked this thread.
Enjoy your card, theres a lot of internet chatter possibly making it seem more than it is. Remember, this is a popular card with thousands sold, and the Micron versions have been out since August. I'm getting the feeling the majority of micron 1070s do not have any issue. Was a bit more upset yesterday since I had only learned about it after my card was shipped.

Evga have said they are releasing a bios update "early next week" for this issue. So I assume all other AIBs will have one out by then too.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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Is "bad memory" an excuse or a cost cutting move?
It is said to be a matter of not enough production of the Samsung memory, so they used Micron to fill in for the lack of Samsung production. If you want to put a "glass is half full" spin on it, which is likely true, they are selling such a high volume of GTX 1070's, they are having troubles keeping up with production and having to use multiple vendors to fill the orders.
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,697
102
106
Enjoy your card, theres a lot of internet chatter possibly making it seem more than it is. Remember, this is a popular card with thousands sold, and the Micron versions have been out since August. I'm getting the feeling the majority of micron 1070s do not have any issue. Was a bit more upset yesterday since I had only learned about it after my card was shipped.

Evga have said they are releasing a bios update "early next week" for this issue. So I assume all other AIBs will have one out by then too.
Do you have to flash your video card with the new bios update ?
 

ConsoleLover

Member
Aug 28, 2016
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Sue Nvidia (again) and make them pay hundreds of millions for false advertising (again)! They just don't learn!


Trolling is not allowed
Markfw900
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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
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The OP in this thread doesn't read as if it's a problem of "inferior memory" (AT ALL!) but a problem of how the card incorrectly supplies voltage to the memory chips.

If the card is idling at the 300mv level when you click apply to overclock the vram from default levels to somewhere in the range of +400 to +500, The Micron memory cards will produce checkerboard artifacts and either crash the driver or create a video scheduler BSOD. If you lock the voltage in Afterburner first, them you can quite easily run +500 to +600 mhz offset overclocks without the card crashing.
The artifacts and crashes only appear when taking the card from a low voltage/default state to a high memory over clocked. If the voltage is already running above about 800mv the artifact issue is not apparent. and the cards run quite happily at at 500-600 mhz or higher over the stock reference clocks.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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Sue Nvidia (again) and make them pay hundreds of millions for false advertising (again)! They just don't learn!
Umm, they didn't false advertise. The supplier of their memory is not an advertising bullet point. They just had to use a 2nd vendor, which happens to not have as good of tolerances or the timings in their BIOS are off for the other vendor. It does kind of suck to know if you had the lessor version of memory, but as long as it does do everything they advertise it to do, there is nothing false about it. And it does do as advertised.
 
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ZGR

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2012
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The only reason to get a 1070 is if you like to OC. Without a solid memory overclock, the 1070 is held back substantially! 8 ghz is too slow.

I'm disappointed. If my 1070 couldn't OC I would have gotten a 1080. These GPU'S need as much memory bandwidth as possible.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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The only reason to get a 1070 is if you like to OC. Without a solid memory overclock, the 1070 is held back substantially! 8 ghz is too slow.

I'm disappointed. If my 1070 couldn't OC I would have gotten a 1080. These GPU'S need as much memory bandwidth as possible.
Are you serious about that being the only way to get good performance? And do you have any evidence to support this claim? I'd be interested if you do.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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The OP in this thread doesn't read as if it's a problem of "inferior memory" (AT ALL!) but a problem of how the card incorrectly supplies voltage to the memory chips.
I generally agree. Micron vram may be sufficient to do the job with the right bios code and that is all that is required by most buyers. BUT if Samsung modules have higher OC headroom, then I guess it would make micron 'inferior', to enthusiasts at least.

Thats why I would like to see an investigative review of Micron based cards (with pre and aft updated bios tests). And for review sites from this point on to stop accepting Samsung samples from AIBs, since I believe all new cards are being shipped with micron vram.
 

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