GT-R 18,000 mile service.

[ehhhh]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: ehhhh
And that 100lbs is worth what in the 1/4m? 0.1s?
What if the m5 engine was a 7L? Would it's increase weight make it inferior to the LS7? Doubtful.

Let me ask you this...

In what possible way is HP/l a meaningful number at all when it comes to performance of a street car?

Numbers that are meaningful to me:
HP/lb: the higher the ratio, the faster the car is likely to be
HP/$: the higher the ratio, the more likely people can afford it
1/4 mile: an actual performance measurement
0-60: an actual performance measurement
lateral Gs: an actual performance measurement
Nurburgring times: an actual performance measurement
MPG: an actual efficiency measurement
$: whether it's affordable at all

Numbers that are just "dick waving" trivia:
HP/l
redline
number of acronyms in the marketing material

HP/l is the "what am I paying for?" element, which coincides what I'm talking about: $/tech.
Don't take this the wrong way:
Do you own a heavily modified car?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: ehhhh
HP/l is the "what am I paying for?" element, which coincides what I'm talking about: $/tech.
Don't take this the wrong way:
Do you own a heavily modified car?

$/tech is also meaningless in terms of performance. It's just interesting trivia. My brother in law used to have an Elky w/ a 377 that he raced at the track regularly. Just a single 4 barrel carb. Nothing exotic. But he ran 12's and pushed 540 RWHP. Now, if someone rolled up in an F355, would you go about arguing that the Ferrari's tech would make up for losing to a guy's garage project? Nope, it doesn't work that way. At the end of the track the win light would be for his lane. The timing system doesn't care if you got a VW Beetle or an Enzo. All it cares about is who got there first. Not what got you there.

Things like volumetric efficiency, the technology implemented in the car, and things along that sort of line is interesting trivia, but at the end of the day, it's just trivia.

And no, mine is only very lightly modified. But I do have the pink slip and time slips showing times similar to a Celica GTS. My car may be simple, but it is low maintenance and problem free. And the parts are cheap.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: DVad3r
lol did this thread turn into Vette vs GT-R match?

because ayabe is a fany boy that knows little of cars.

The Gt-R is not "cutting" edge in ANY respect. It has awd which is not new and has been done many times before. Turbo is not new, again done many times. A tranmission that blows up with litte notice, ford did that in the late 80's with the Taurus so nothing new there either.

waaaahhhhhhh

 

[ehhhh]

Yes in terms of performance it's meaningless.
Since we're going wayyy of tagent, the point I was trying to make was: The GTR is worth it's cost. Modifying cars is expensive and if you were to try to build one a car that can match the GTR in every aspect you'd be hard pressed to do so.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ehhhh
Yes in terms of performance it's meaningless.
Since we're going wayyy of tagent, the point I was trying to make was: The GTR is worth it's cost. Modifying cars is expensive and if you were to try to build one a car that can match the GTR in every aspect you'd be hard pressed to do so.

Good, read my post above and tell me what you think. It seems that regardless of your personal preference, certain truths apply that are virtually inarguable.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: ehhhh
Yes in terms of performance it's meaningless.
Since we're going wayyy of tagent, the point I was trying to make was: The GTR is worth it's cost. Modifying cars is expensive and if you were to try to build one a car that can match the GTR in every aspect you'd be hard pressed to do so.

Like I said before "design compromises."

 

[DVad3r]

How much faster is a GT-R compared to a ZR1? What about a Z06?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
How much faster is a GT-R compared to a ZR1? What about a Z06?

The ZR-1, with the right driver, should outperform the GT-R and Z06 in virtually everything, which it should, given that it's dramatically more expensive.

The Z06 and GT-R trade blows pretty evenly, with each having notable advantages.

GT-R wins acceleration from a stop, up to around the ~100-110mph range, when the Z06 will begin to retake the lead.

Z06 wins from a decent roll pretty handily.

GT-R wins on ease of at-the-limit driving.

GT-R wins at mixed technical courses, proven by tons of independent and sponsored tests at a variety of tracks.

Z06 wins on cost of operation/maintenance and probable reliability.

GT-R wins on rarity.

Z06 wins on long-term prestige, and likely collectability in ~25 years+.

Z06 wins on exhaust note / acoustics.

GT-R wins on inclement weather / loose road conditions.

etc. Both are truly excellent vehicles, compelling value for the echelon of performance offered, and neither is hands-down a winner overall over the other.

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: DVad3r
How much faster is a GT-R compared to a ZR1? What about a Z06?

The ZR-1, with the right driver, should outperform the GT-R and Z06 in virtually everything, which it should, given that it's dramatically more expensive.

The Z06 and GT-R trade blows pretty evenly, with each having notable advantages.

GT-R wins acceleration from a stop, up to around the ~100-110mph range, when the Z06 will begin to retake the lead.

Z06 wins from a decent roll pretty handily.

GT-R wins on ease of at-the-limit driving.

GT-R wins at mixed technical courses, proven by tons of independent and sponsored tests at a variety of tracks.

Z06 wins on cost of operation/maintenance and probable reliability.

GT-R wins on rarity.

Z06 wins on long-term prestige, and likely collectability in ~25 years+.

Z06 wins on exhaust note / acoustics.

GT-R wins on inclement weather / loose road conditions.

etc. Both are truly excellent vehicles, compelling value for the echelon of performance offered, and neither is hands-down a winner overall over the other.

So the better deal is, a Z06, considering it costs far less than the GT-R, at least here in Canada. I think it's a great car, it's a simple machine that gets the job done.

 

[DVad3r]

Also looks wise the Vette wins in my books.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
Also looks wise the Vette wins in my books.

Yeah, I can't argue subjectives with you. I love the looks of both of them.

Given that most people rarely if ever 'track' their cars, I also think the Z06 makes more sense logically to purchase, given that it doesn't lose in anything by a huge margin, and is cheaper to operate.

All things considered though, both cars are serious cans of whoop-ass. I don't get why people want to talk trash about either of them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: DVad3r
Also looks wise the Vette wins in my books.

Yeah, I can't argue subjectives with you. I love the looks of both of them.

Given that most people rarely if ever 'track' their cars, I also think the Z06 makes more sense logically to purchase, given that it doesn't lose in anything by a huge margin, and is cheaper to operate.

All things considered though, both cars are serious cans of whoop-ass. I don't get why people want to talk trash about either of them.

because one obviously has to be better than the other

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: DVad3r
Also looks wise the Vette wins in my books.

Yeah, I can't argue subjectives with you. I love the looks of both of them.

Given that most people rarely if ever 'track' their cars, I also think the Z06 makes more sense logically to purchase, given that it doesn't lose in anything by a huge margin, and is cheaper to operate.

All things considered though, both cars are serious cans of whoop-ass. I don't get why people want to talk trash about either of them.

because one obviously has to be better than the other

When you factor price into the equation there is one that comes out the winner

Plus I think the previous GT-R looked good and was original, this one just looks like a 300z.

Ill take a Z06 plz anyday, and the extra money I save Ill spend on hookers.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: ehhhh
And that 100lbs is worth what in the 1/4m? 0.1s?
What if the m5 engine was a 7L? Would it's increase weight make it inferior to the LS7? Doubtful.

Let me ask you this...

In what possible way is HP/l a meaningful number at all when it comes to performance of a street car?

It's meaningful in that the higher the HP/L, the worse your gains are going to be in the aftermarket. FAR worse.

In other words, a $40,000 supercharger system on an M5 will get you about as much power as a few thousand $$ on a Z06.

Other than that, it also tends to mean the maintenance requirements will be higher and more expensive. Parts will cost more in general. And magazine racers will swoon in pure ecstasy.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: caspur

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

The fluids can be found cheaper online, but as soon as you take your GT-R in for a warranty claim, Nissan will deny you service because you decided to purchase your stuff online instead of at the dealership...

That's illegal.

This is correct. As long as the fluids you use meet the standards set by Nissan, they can not deny service. For example, if they require a 5w-30 oil, they can not require a specific brand oil unless they provide it for free. As long as you use the correct viscosity and maintain the specified intervals, the warranty is valid.

Furthermore, transmission fluid is simply an oil with additives. Any of the large companies can make equivalents. Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, Quaker State, whatever, can make a similar viscosity oil that will have the same duty standards.

Yes and no.

5w30 is a weight, not a grade. Not all 5w30 oils are created the same. You need to pay attention to the API grades (e.g. SM, SL, SJ, or CF). If a car calls for 5w30 SM specification and you use 5w30 SF/SG, the company _can_ void the warranty for any damage caused by the oil.

Similarly, if you have a 75w90 differential fluid that requires special friction modifiers and you just use a regular 75w90 oil, the company _can_ (and will) void warranty when the clutch packs in your differential fail.

While Nissan may not be mandating their fluid, it is entirely possible that no-one else is offering a fluid that is certified as meeting Nissan's specs because the market is too small to make it worthwhile to pay for the certification process. There may well be fluids that would meet the specs if they were certified, but without that certification that doesn't mean anything.

ZV

 

[ehhhh]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: ehhhh
And that 100lbs is worth what in the 1/4m? 0.1s?
What if the m5 engine was a 7L? Would it's increase weight make it inferior to the LS7? Doubtful.

Let me ask you this...

In what possible way is HP/l a meaningful number at all when it comes to performance of a street car?

It's meaningful in that the higher the HP/L, the worse your gains are going to be in the aftermarket. FAR worse.

That's not true in all situations.
A small displacement FI car will most likely have a higher HP/L than a NA competitor in it's class and a simple $20 bleeder valve is all you're going to need most of time for significant gains.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Why is it every time a thread about the GT-R shows up, all the ignorant GT-R fanboys (half of them new users with low post counts) pop in to start bitching?

There I can offical tell you to stfu n00b.

Love,
ehhhh

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: ehhhh

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: ehhhh
And that 100lbs is worth what in the 1/4m? 0.1s?
What if the m5 engine was a 7L? Would it's increase weight make it inferior to the LS7? Doubtful.

Let me ask you this...

In what possible way is HP/l a meaningful number at all when it comes to performance of a street car?

It's meaningful in that the higher the HP/L, the worse your gains are going to be in the aftermarket. FAR worse.

That's not true in all situations.
A small displacement FI car will most likely have a higher HP/L than a NA competitor in it's class and a simple $20 bleeder valve is all you're going to need most of time for significant gains.

You're absolutely correct. FI definitely changes the rules. I was merely speaking apples to apples (NA to NA, FI to FI), and should have been more clear.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: ehhhh

As far as the current LS3 making more power, sure it does but it still doesn't make more HP/L that the LT5 had and this is 16 years later.

You should be banned from posting about cars if you bring up the HP/liter Honda fanboy crap. HP/liter is a worthless measurement.

If you can make an engine that's simpler, cheaper, is lighter, produces more power and more torque, AND gets better fuel economy, that would be considered a damn good job at designing an engine. Who the hell cares about HP/liter. Generally the smaller you make an engine the higher the HP/liter will be using the same tech. RC car engines produce a ton of HP/liter yet they are low tech engines that get poor fuel economy.

 

[boomhower]

Back to the OP, it seems obvious the biggest issue is the cost of the fluids. If they can point out the rare, almost mythical, element that is required in this fluid to keep the cars from spontaneously combusting then I am sure no one will have an issue with the costs. If they are unable to do so and are charge $100+ for what they should be charging $20 just so they can gouge people then to hell with them. Its obvious they are gouging people and will eventually be crucified in the media for it. Its not the 4 amount I have an issue with, its the fact they are just gouging people for the sake of it.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: ehhhh

As far as the current LS3 making more power, sure it does but it still doesn't make more HP/L that the LT5 had and this is 16 years later.

You should be banned from posting about cars if you bring up the HP/liter Honda fanboy crap. HP/liter is a worthless measurement.

If you can make an engine that's simpler, cheaper, is lighter, produces more power and more torque, AND gets better fuel economy, that would be considered a damn good job at designing an engine. Who the hell cares about HP/liter. Generally the smaller you make an engine the higher the HP/liter will be using the same tech. RC car engines produce a ton of HP/liter yet they are low tech engines that get poor fuel economy.

Give me a break. Stop that childish "fanboy" crap too, seriously. Adults use the term "enthusiasts" , you should try it.

What I was trying to explain is over your head, and has to do with "what am I paying for". I'm sorry if you don't understand, but the argument is said and done.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: boomhower
Back to the OP, it seems obvious the biggest issue is the cost of the fluids. If they can point out the rare, almost mythical, element that is required in this fluid to keep the cars from spontaneously combusting then I am sure no one will have an issue with the costs. If they are unable to do so and are charge $100+ for what they should be charging $20 just so they can gouge people then to hell with them. Its obvious they are gouging people and will eventually be crucified in the media for it. Its not the 4 amount I have an issue with, its the fact they are just gouging people for the sake of it.

It is specially formulated to make sure your tranny dies prematurely :laugh:

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: lsd
Give me a break. Stop that childish "fanboy" crap too, seriously. Adults use the term "enthusiasts" , you should try it.

What I was trying to explain is over your head, and has to do with "what am I paying for". I'm sorry if you don't understand, but the argument is said and done.

$50k Ariel Atom:
[ ]AWD
[ ]dual clutch transmission
[ ]ECS
[ ]Computer controlled suspension
[ ]Climate control
[ ]Fancy bodywork
[X]A smile wide enough to suck in every bug along the mountain road you just drove through.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: lsd
Give me a break. Stop that childish "fanboy" crap too, seriously. Adults use the term "enthusiasts" , you should try it.

What I was trying to explain is over your head, and has to do with "what am I paying for". I'm sorry if you don't understand, but the argument is said and done.

$50k Ariel Atom:
[ ]AWD
[ ]dual clutch transmission
[ ]ECS
[ ]Computer controlled suspension
[ ]Climate control
[ ]Fancy bodywork
[X]A smile wide enough to suck in every bug along the mountain road you just drove through.

Lets talk about cars here, not RC cars, bikes and the 4 wheeled bike that is the Atom lol.
However despite it's massive LBS/HP advantage (3.6lbs/hp atom vs 7.9lbs/hp gtr) the Atom was only 0.2 seconds quicker on the top gear track.

14. Ariel Atom 1:19.5
15. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 1:19.5 (partly damp)
16. Porsche 997 GT2 1:19.5 (partly damp)
17. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 1:19.7
18. Nissan GT-R 1:19.7
19. Porsche Carrera GT 1:19.8
I'd take the couple tenths and take any of the cars below the atom..

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track1.html

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: lsd

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
$50k Ariel Atom:
[ ]AWD
[ ]dual clutch transmission
[ ]ECS
[ ]Computer controlled suspension
[ ]Climate control
[ ]Fancy bodywork
[X]A smile wide enough to suck in every bug along the mountain road you just drove through.

Lets talk about cars here, not RC cars, bikes and the 4 wheeled bike that is the Atom lol.
However despite it's massive LBS/HP advantage (3.6lbs/hp atom vs 7.9lbs/hp gtr) the Atom was only 0.2 seconds quicker on the top gear track.

14. Ariel Atom 1:19.5
15. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 1:19.5 (partly damp)
16. Porsche 997 GT2 1:19.5 (partly damp)
17. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 1:19.7
18. Nissan GT-R 1:19.7
19. Porsche Carrera GT 1:19.8
I'd take the couple tenths and take any of the cars below the atom..

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track1.html

Apparently the point of my post went so far over your head that it was tracked by NORAD. The point of my post was that the really important thing for a sports car is that it's a joy to drive, and you don't need all that tech to get that. The Atom's joy actually comes from the sheer absence of things which aren't needed rather than the presence of things which add blinking lights. That is "what you get".