Group to Show Penitence Over Slave Trade

[Drift3r]

This will do nothing but enflame people's anger and it will not resolve a damn thing.

Group to Show Penitence Over Slave Trade

Wed Aug 25, 9:06 AM ET

By BRETT ZONGKER, Associated Press Writer

ANNAPOLIS, Md. - White marchers will wear chains on their hands and yokes on their necks while being escorted by black people, and everyone will wear T-shirts with a message of apology as a group of African and European Christians visits the United States this fall with a message of reconciliation.

The Lifeline Expedition will visit 10 U.S. cities, starting in Annapolis. The group's organizers say it is an effort to bring "reconciliation" and "healing" in Africa, Europe and North America through symbols of penitence.

"I believe that it helps, or potentially it helps, white people to think in a different way," said David Pott, who started the London-based organization to "reverse the damage" of the slave trade. It has held similar demonstrations in European cities linked to the 18th and 19th-century industry.

"We're not divisive in saying, 'Here's black, here's white,'" he said. "We're saying, 'We are brothers and sisters in our common humanity.'"

Annapolis' City Dock memorializes Kunta Kinte, one of 98 Gambians brought by Lord Ligonier into the narrow harbor in 1767 and sold into slavery. Kinte was also featured in Alex Haley's book and television series "Roots."

Some people are uneasy about remembering a link to slavery, and the march plans have attracted attention from a neo-Nazi group.

The City Council voted 7-2 to waive the estimated cost of $2,000 for police services and roadblocks for the walk from the water's edge through the historic city to a statue of Thurgood Marshall, the first black U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) justice.

But Mayor Ellen O. Moyer said she opposed the waiver because it was too early to know how large the Sept. 29 event will be and how much it will cost the city. Moyer, who is white, also disagrees with Lifeline Expedition's tactics, although she said she supports any group's right to demonstrate.

"I think it's a private matter," Moyer said. "The way that we all choose to reconcile issues that deal with man's inhumanity to man is private." Some people choose "good works, unheralded" to express concern for injustices of the past, she noted, and the city has had local groups that offered a dialogue on race relations.

The Kunta Kinte-Alex Haley Foundation is the local sponsor for the walk, working to raise $75,000 with organizers in Europe to pay for travel and event costs for between 14 and 20 demonstrators.

Foundation President Leonard Blackshear, who is black, said he shares a mission with Lifeline Expedition.

"Racism is a cancer eating away at the American soul," he said. "This activity is simply one type of chemotherapy that we are looking to apply to the cancer because we believe the patient can and wants to be healed."

Blackshear is looking for local volunteers to take part in the event and said local churches have signed on to help.

Moyer said the city had received inquiries from potential counter-protesters and she's apprehensive about keeping the event positive.

Pott acknowledges that staging such a demonstration in a U.S. city may bring a harsh reaction and said he is praying that things go smoothly.

The neo-Nazi National Alliance, based in Hillsboro, W.Va., wants Annapolis residents to protest the march. The group left 1,500 fliers last weekend at homes all over city, urging people to "Say No to White Guilt" and object to the city's waiver of expenses.

Rather than promoting healing, the event takes slavery and "rubs it in the faces of white people and says they're guilty of something," said Shaun Walker of the National Alliance. He said the group has not decided whether to attend the demonstration.



Lifeline Expedition also plans to walk through the streets of Baltimore; Boston; Charleston, S.C.; New York; Richmond, Va., and several other cities.

Carol Palmer volunteered to walk in chains in Richmond, where she is helping to coordinate the U.S. tour.

"A huge part of the tragedy of what happened years ago is that it was supported by Christians," said Palmer, who works for a missionary organization called Youth With A Mission. "As Christians, we're asking for forgiveness because we were in the wrong."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I believe that many years ago there were groups of monks that made public displays of self-flagellation.

Same principle applies.

 

[Anubis08]

My answer is I will pay restitution for every slave I ever owned, but I am not liable for any of my ancestors doings.

P.S. I don't think they owned slaves either.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I believe that many years ago there were groups of monks that made public displays of self-flagellation.

Same principle applies.

Really this is stupid. Why can't people stop acting like perpetual victims ???

 

[Anubis08]

Poeple will act up to the level they are expected to. If we want a change we will have to stop handing out gifts to make up for past crimes. After crying so hard for equality they don't seem to mind if the "pendulum" drifts to the other side to badly.

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Hmmm, I have many conflicting thoughts on this.

First, if it helps people come to terms with something that happened so long ago, then I guess it is a good thing.

At the same time however, it seems odd to say that racism is a cancer and that we are going to kill that cancer by expressing even more racism (but this time in the opposite way). Although, I feel that their chemo analogy is fairly apt, since chemo often ends up practically killing the entire organism (so I guess at heart I am a little skeptical of this idea).

I think if they really wanted to show how we are all brothers and sisters, and good way to do it would be to have both whites and black (and asians, latinos, and whoever else) marching together without any chains (maybe with broken chains if you want the symbolism).


Definitely an interesting idea though.

-D'oh!

 

[Kibbo]

I think that the juxtaposition is meant to show the absurdidty of the reverse situation, and thereby make us confront our own stereotypes.

This protest merely wants us to ask questions. I see no demands for broad-based restitution, or any change of policy whatsoever. What's the problem? It is a protest to remind us of what happened in the past; not so different from Rememberance Day (Memorial Day to you Yanks).

 

[DeeKnow]

basic problem? easy lives, far too much free time...

I don't hear anyone in Nigeria digging up the past or trying to 'find' themselves, or trying to 'recover' memories of abuse from when they were kids - ppl are too busy trying to live

 

[conjur]

White marchers will wear chains on their hands and yokes on their necks while being escorted by black people, and everyone will wear T-shirts with a message of apology as a group of African and European Christians visits the United States this fall with a message of reconciliation.

And the last slave ship brought slaves over how long ago???

:roll:

 

[rextilleon]

Americans have group amnesia and its good to be reminded that our past wasn't all that the mythologists of the Republican Party want you to think. Yes, my dear right wingers--America was partially built on the backs of slaves--families were destroyed, lives were lost-------We live with the results of this policy today.

 

[PatboyX]

i think its appropriate to recognize and remember ones past, failings and all.
but this seems sort of masturbatory and more to make the white people feel better for their ancestors than anything else.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Americans have group amnesia and its good to be reminded that our past wasn't all that the mythologists of the Republican Party want you to think. Yes, my dear right wingers--America was partially built on the backs of slaves--families were destroyed, lives were lost-------We live with the results of this policy today.

show me anyone that owned a slave and i will beat the crap out of him.

and why are "right wingers" trying to make us forget? Do they have something to benefit from people not knowing about slavery from 150 or so years ago?

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Americans have group amnesia and its good to be reminded that our past wasn't all that the mythologists of the Republican Party want you to think. Yes, my dear right wingers--America was partially built on the backs of slaves--families were destroyed, lives were lost-------We live with the results of this policy today.

show me anyone that owned a slave and i will beat the crap out of him.

and why are "right wingers" trying to make us forget? Do they have something to benefit from people not knowing about slavery from 150 or so years ago?

so...you are fully prepared to beat those who owned slaves? their family members now or just past ones?
ive met people who owned slaves...if you like, i could maybe introduce you.

 

[rextilleon]

Right wingers want us to believe in their highly mythologized view of America---the jingoistic view that distorts history and pretty much ignores the sins of this nation--Its this sense of American exclusionism--you know the City on the Hill crap--about us being somehow blessed by God . It is this self-righteousness--this sense that we are not equal to others in the world but somehow better---that is the politics of the Right. It is merely propoganda. Like most countries in the world we had our good moments and we had our bad moments.

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: Anubis08
My answer is I will pay restitution for every slave I ever owned, but I am not liable for any of my ancestors doings.

Would you give back all the money that was made and all the social and economic benefit that your ansestors, your family, and you received because of slave labor? Like if you lived in a family house that you found out was bought by your great great grandfather using money he made from selling slaves?

I'm not saying you should, or that you shouldn't, but that's exactly what makes this issue so complicated. When a son inherits a father's wealth, but that wealth was ill-gotten, is the son in accepting the inheritance also approving/accepting blame for his fathers sins that earned that wealth?

In an easier situation, you can say that if your dad was a drug dealer, and made millions, and retired from drug dealing, and you inherited his assets, and then a case was brought up against him/his group post-mortem, can they confiscate the assets from you? I think they can, and do, do this. It's simple money laundering, and there are laws against it. The money is theoretically used to pay back those hurt by drug dealers, usually through the government to help the general population who have been collectively affected by the dealing (higher crimes, rehab program costs, police costs, etc.).

It's a little different, though, when it's more than 100 years later, you're at least 4 or 5 generations removed from the acts, and the acts weren't even illegal when they were committed.

The wrench in the gears is that these days, we do consider slavery illegal and awful. So that's where the guilt part comes in... if you live a good life because your forefathers were good businessmen in their time (and that may have meant using slave labor), then how do you feel about the people on the other side of the equation? You indirectly gained money at someone else's indirect expense. Every dollar saved by using slaves instead of paid labor became a dollar in profit for your slaveowner ancestor, and a dollar that would eventually grow into your present day wealth (relative wealth compared to those in poverty). Inversely, every dollar that did NOT get paid to a working slave contributed to that slave's descendents lack of wealth.

So now, it's a century later. Slave descendents are much worse off on average than slaveowner descendents. And don't say it's cause they're lazy, because everyone's lazy: but if you're the laziest person on earth and you inherit a ton of money, you're still rich, but if you're poor and not any lazier than the next guy, but also not particularly enterprising, you're still poor.

If I inherited a ton of money from slaveowner ancestors, I'd feel awful, but I'm betting that (someone save my soul) I'd be too greedy to give it all up.

but I am not liable for any of my ancestors doings.

But you are liable for the profits of their doings? Would you agree with the statement "Sure my grandpa mugged a lot of people and gave me the money from their wallets, but that doesn't mean I should give the money back"? This is similar to the problems of corporations today... people disconnect themselves personally from the actions of the corporations, but they do not refuse the wealth that those actions bring them. That way, the corporation can be as immoral as can be, while the people can still live happily thinking that they themselves are still moral. This allows people to have their cake and eat it too.

So confusing...

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Americans have group amnesia and its good to be reminded that our past wasn't all that the mythologists of the Republican Party want you to think. Yes, my dear right wingers--America was partially built on the backs of slaves--families were destroyed, lives were lost-------We live with the results of this policy today.

show me anyone that owned a slave and i will beat the crap out of him.

and why are "right wingers" trying to make us forget? Do they have something to benefit from people not knowing about slavery from 150 or so years ago?

so...you are fully prepared to beat those who owned slaves? their family members now or just past ones?
ive met people who owned slaves...if you like, i could maybe introduce you.

Some in the USA who actually owned a slave, yes I will kick his arse. A great grandchild? :roll:

who exactly did you meet that owned a slave? are they still alive? are they from another country?

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: Anubis08
After crying so hard for equality they don't seem to mind if the "pendulum" drifts to the other side to badly.

Alright, try this.

You have 3 people. They all earn "5" points a day. At the end of 100 days, they each have 500 points. They've each earned an individual average of 5 points per day.

Now, let's say that the economy was affected by slavery. One person isn't involved with slavery, so he still makes 5 points per day. Another person is a slave, so he makes 0 points per day. The other is a slaveowner who makes his 5 points and also keeps the slave's 5 points, so has makes 10 points per day. At the end of 100 days:
Slave: 0 points.
Normal guy: 500 points.
Slaveowner: 1000 points.

Now let's say that instead of 100 days of slavery, only the first 3/4 included slavery. In the last quarter, slavery was outlawed. The normal person earns 5 points all quarters, so he has 50 points after 100 days. The slave earns 0 points over 75 days and 5 points the last 25 days after slavery has ended, so he ends up with 125 points, or an average of 1.25 points per day. The slaveowner earns 10 points per day for 75 days and then 5 points a day for the remaining 25, so he ends up with 875, or 87.5 points per day. So even after 25 days of equity, the slave is still behind. Even if the slave worked twice as hard, and made 10 points per day for those last 25 days, the slaveowner, earning 5 points a day, would still have more than 3 times as much wealth as the slave (875 vs 250).

Now equate this to US history. For calculation's sake, let's round the years, and say that in the past 400 years (1600-2000), the first 300 were slavery (1865 civil war rounded to 1900), and the last 100 years were non-slavery. This is even being generous, since until the late 1900's there was legal segregation and discrimination against former slaves, so the slaves would not even have been able to make 5 points per day even once slavery was ended.

So it's today, 2004, and the family of the former slaveowner is still 3 times wealthier than the family of the former slave, all because of gains that occurred during the slave era. The wealthy family has so much money that even after purchasing food and shelter, they can afford investments which serve to make their extra money grow into even more extra money and widen the gap between rich and poor. While the wealthy family is getting richer off investing the slaveowner's initial riches, the slave's descendents are still struggling to even catch up to the average joe who made 5 points a day all along!

Can you honestly say it's fair? Can you honestly say with good conscience that all we need to do is let everyone make 5 points per day, and that's completely fair? The numbers just don't add up.

For non-minorities, even having parents with an average childhood and adulthood gives them a great advantage over the mnorities whose parents were segregated and discriminated against as recently as the 1970's!

People who think that we only need to stop discrimination now, and not make other restitution or policy changes, are greedy and in order to justify their greed they must ignore the laws of averages, and the concept of interest, and the fact that any wall street worker will tell you, "you gotta spend money to make money".

 

[Genx87]

ANNAPOLIS, Md. - White marchers will wear chains on their hands and yokes on their necks while being escorted by black people, and everyone will wear T-shirts with a message of apology as a group of African and European Christians visits the United States this fall with a message of reconciliation.

Some people just need to learn to keep their fetishes at home.