Greenhouse gas levels pass symbolic 400ppm CO2 milestone

chris9641

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Dec 8, 2006
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e-scientists/2012/05/31/gJQAVvwP3U_story.html

WASHINGTON — The world’s air has reached what scientists call a troubling new milestone for carbon dioxide, the main global warming pollutant.

Monitoring stations across the Arctic this spring are measuring more than 400 parts per million of the heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere. The number isn’t quite a surprise, because it’s been rising at an accelerating pace. Years ago, it passed the 350 ppm mark that many scientists say is the highest safe level for carbon dioxide. It now stands globally at 395.

So far, only the Arctic has reached that 400 level, but the rest of the world will follow soon.

“The fact that it’s 400 is significant,” said Jim Butler, global monitoring director at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Earth System Research Lab in Boulder, Colo. “It’s just a reminder to everybody that we haven’t fixed this and we’re still in trouble.”

Carbon dioxide is the chief greenhouse gas and most of it lasts about 100 years in the air, but some of it stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years. Some carbon dioxide is natural, mainly from decomposing dead plants and animals. Before the Industrial Age, levels were around 275 parts per million.

For more than 60 years, readings have been in the 300s, except in urban areas, where levels are skewed. The burning of fossil fuels, such as coal for electricity and oil for gasoline, has caused the overwhelming bulk of the man-made increase in carbon in the air, scientists say.

It’s been at least 800,000 years — probably more — since Earth saw carbon dioxide levels in the 400s, Butler and other climate scientists said.

Until now.

Readings are coming in at 400 and higher all over the Arctic. They’ve been recorded in Alaska, Greenland, Norway, Iceland and even Mongolia. But levels change with the seasons and will drop a bit in the summer, when plants suck up carbon dioxide, NOAA scientists said.

So the yearly average for those northern stations likely will be lower and so will the global number.

Globally, the average carbon dioxide level is about 395 parts per million but will pass the 400 mark within a few years, scientists said.

The Arctic is the leading indicator in global warming, both in carbon dioxide in the air and effects, said Pieter Tans, a senior NOAA scientist.

“This is the first time the entire Arctic is that high,” he said.

Tans called reaching the 400 number “depressing,” and Butler said it was “a troubling milestone.”

“It’s an important threshold,” said Carnegie Institution ecologist Chris Field, a scientist who helps lead the Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. “It is an indication that we’re in a different world.”

Ronald Prinn, an atmospheric sciences professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said 400 is more a psychological milestone than a scientific one. We think in hundreds, and “we’re poking our heads above 400,” he said.

Tans said the readings show how much the Earth’s atmosphere and its climate are being affected by humans. Global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels hit a record high of 34.8 billion tons in 2011, up 3.2 percent, the International Energy Agency announced last week.

The agency said it’s becoming unlikely that the world can achieve the European goal of limiting global warming to just 2 degrees based on increasing pollution and greenhouse gas levels.

“The news today, that some stations have measured concentrations above 400 ppm in the atmosphere, is further evidence that the world’s political leaders — with a few honorable exceptions — are failing catastrophically to address the climate crisis,” former Vice President Al Gore, the highest-profile campaigner against global warming, said in an email. “History will not understand or forgive them.”

But political dynamics in the United States mean there’s no possibility of significant restrictions on man-made greenhouse gases no matter what the levels are in the air, said Jerry Taylor, a senior fellow of the libertarian Cato Institute.

“These milestones are always worth noting,” said economist Myron Ebell at the conservative Competitive Enterprise Institute. “As carbon dioxide levels have continued to increase, global temperatures flattened out, contrary to the models” used by climate scientists and the United Nations.

He contends temperatures have not risen since 1998, which was unusually hot.

Temperature records contradict that claim. Both 2005 and 2010 were warmer than 1998, and the entire decade of 2000 to 2009 was the warmest on record, according to NOAA.

I don't think anyone can give a definitive answer on what CO2 emissions will do to this planet down the road without a certain amount of people calling those people alarmists, thus the present roadblock facing us on how to move forward. So what do you make of this?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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I can give you a definitive answer if the following paragraph is to be believed.
It’s been at least 800,000 years — probably more — since Earth saw carbon dioxide levels in the 400s, Butler and other climate scientists said.

The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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alarmist crapola drum beat for the warming religionists and "sky is falling" aficionados.
 
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MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
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I can give you a definitive answer if the following paragraph is to be believed.


The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.

The planet will do just fine with even higher levels....the question is if we will be. As levels rise, life and by extension humanity, will change.
 

chris9641

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Dec 8, 2006
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I can give you a definitive answer if the following paragraph is to be believed.


The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.

Yes, but it can be argued that 800,000 years ago was a natural accrual in CO2, giving the biosphere time to regulate to excess CO2. If the present 400ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere is artificially cause by humans, how do we know if the homeostasis of the biosphere can keep up.

I guess metaphorically if would be akin to your adrenals being jacked up from seeing a lion, fleeing the threat, then your body regulating back to normal. Compare that to drinking 5 redbulls a day, causing a similar response from the body, but breaking the regulation from too much consumption.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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The planet will do just fine with even higher levels....the question is if we will be. As levels rise, life and by extension humanity, will change.
We're all gonna die. If we kill ourselves off, we kill ourselves off. This thread is going to devolve into the usual horse shit pretty quick, but before that happens I'll say this. Until someone comes up with a plan, with data to support it that proves we're going to kill ourselves off and most importantly, ensures our survivability, I say we continue as we are. Taxing me to make rich folks richer is not the answer. That's only common sense. Taxing me under the guise of "saving the planet" to give the money to other folks who have less, makes no sense either.

Beware of the prophet seeking profits.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Yes, but it can be argued that 800,000 years ago was a natural accrual in CO2, giving the biosphere time to regulate to excess CO2. If the present 400ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere is artificially cause by humans, how do we know if the homeostasis of the biosphere can keep up.

I guess metaphorically if would be akin to your adrenals being jacked up from seeing a lion, fleeing the threat, then your body regulating back to normal. Compare that to drinking 5 redbulls a day, causing a similar response from the body, but breaking the regulation from too much consumption.
There are a whole lot of things one can worry about. Everything from stubbing a toe, to the Earth crashing into the sun and everything in between. If it makes you feel better to worry about CO2 levels, I'm not going to get in your way. But don't start dipping your hand into my wallet to make your fears more bearable.

These discussions are regular here. Lots of fear, lots of anxiety, no proof it's a real concern and the answer is always the same. Spend more. In the meantime developing nations are giving the rest of the world a big 'fuck you' we're doing what we want. Still, we're told we must spend billions, put hundreds of thousands out of work only to shift money from one ideological pocket to another. That last sentence is really important because that's what it's really all about.

Go outside and enjoy a nice spring day. Spring only comes once a year.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,646
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Greenhouse gas levels pass symbolic 400ppm CO2 milestone

First, USA leads world in CO2 cuts since 2006
US emissions have now fallen by 430 Mt (7.7%) since 2006, the largest reduction of all countries or regions. This development has arisen from lower oil use in the transport sector … and a substantial shift from coal to gas in the power sector.
...
Here is the biggest shocker of all: the average American's CO2 emissions are down to levels not seen since 1964 -- over half a century ago.
Now... unless you intend to nuke China and the rest of the developing world, you had best wrap your head around the 500 and 600 ppm milestones. The planet will most assuredly reach them.

co2-emissions-china.jpg

(Link off google)
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
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CO2 is only the trigger. Wait till the permafrost thaws out and blesses us with more methane. And as the oceans warm and release their great stores of methane too.

I don't think climate change will wipe out mankind, but it will disrupt most people's lives eventually.
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,023
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I didn't think it was too alarmist...

This century should be interesting to say the least. There is no sign of the trend slowing so the consequences however big or small will have to be adapted to by us and every other living organism.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
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The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.

The crust and magma being fine is rather beside the point. The issue is the cost when our coastal cities are underwater and growing seasons no longer match our food crops.

It's funny that it's the conservatives' lack of intelligence that makes them unable to be conservative on this issue. They simply lack the ability to imagine the possible consequences.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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The crust and magma being fine is rather beside the point. The issue is the cost when our coastal cities are underwater and growing seasons no longer match our food crops.

It's funny that it's the conservatives' lack of intelligence that makes them unable to be conservative on this issue. They simply lack the ability to imagine the possible consequences.
It was predicted decades ago that by 2010 most of Florida would be underwater due to rising sea levels.

Intelligence isn't measured by the notion that your thought processes are the only ones that are true and correct, intelligence is knowing when you're getting smoke blown up your ass.

Don't let your fears drive your agenda. You'll appear far smarter to everyone else if you think logically instead of letting your imagination run wild and run around screaming like a school girl.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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I can give you a definitive answer if the following paragraph is to be believed.


The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.

I think you misunderstand. Of course the planet will be here, the question at hand is will it be nice and cozy (read: habitable) for us. Personally, I have no friggen clue.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
The crust and magma being fine is rather beside the point. The issue is the cost when our coastal cities are underwater and growing seasons no longer match our food crops.

It's funny that it's the conservatives' lack of intelligence that makes them unable to be conservative on this issue. They simply lack the ability to imagine the possible consequences.

And the liberals, who supposedly have vastly superior intellect, have yet to come up with anything even resembling a global plan for global warming. Not that I am taking up for the right, just saying....
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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I think you misunderstand. Of course the planet will be here, the question at hand is will it be nice and cozy (read: habitable) for us. Personally, I have no friggen clue.
No, I got it. I'd like to see the hysterical supporters screaming that we're all gonna die instead of "were killing the planet!" It would be far more genuine that way.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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No, I got it. I'd like to see the hysterical supporters screaming that we're all gonna die instead of "were killing the planet!" It would be far more genuine that way.

lol, I am with you.

I always thought the entire "save the planet" thing was dumb. The planet will be fine, its the stuff living on it that they really want to save.
 
Aug 23, 2000
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I can give you a definitive answer if the following paragraph is to be believed.


The earth will continue to spin, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West and the planet will thrive. If the levels were higher 800,000 years ago and we're here today, the planet will do just fine. It's a proven fact.

<Queue Ancient Aliens Theorist> SO if CO2 levels were higher than 400ppm 800,000 years ago this can only be evidence that there was a thriving global population on Earth then that mysteriously died off or left Earth in search of a home with a lower CO2 level.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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lol, I am with you.

I always thought the entire "save the planet" thing was dumb. The planet will be fine, its the stuff living on it that they really want to save.

The Dinosaurs really seemed to have enjoyed the warmer temperatures.