Greatest pitching rotation of all time

[NoStateofMind]

IMO the pitching rotation of '97/'98 Braves Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Millwood and Neagle are handsdown the best ever. I bring this up because the Phillies may challenge that status this year. What say you?

 

[NeoV]

hands down?

Halladay I'd argue is better than any of those Braves pitchers (and please don't use wins as an example of why he's not)
Oswalt is on the same level as any of those Braves pitchers - at least very close IMO
Lee's career numbers aren't going to approach the others, but he's been as dominant as anyone in the past 3 seasons

Cole H is awfully good - I would take him - healthy - over Millwood at any point in his career

Neagle does for sure get the nod over Blanton...he's awful.

It is certainly an interesting discussion at least

 

[NoStateofMind]

I challenge your Halladay's best seasons against Maddux anytime. Look at '94 and '95 when his ERA was below 2, 1.56 and 1.63 respectively. At 23 seasons Maddux had a 3.16 career ERA, Halladay with 14 seasons under his belt is a close 3.31 ERA. Obviously both are on their way to Cooperstown but I think Maddux beats him out.

Oswalt over Glavine? Wouldn't take that one either. I don't think Oswalt is HOF material while I claim Glavine is.

Oswalt<Smoltz - Oswalt would have been fourth on this Braves rotation IMO. He's had great years and may not be through yet.

 

[Meghan54]

As soon as any other club's rotation takes 6 Cy Youngs out of a complete decade as the Brave's pitching staff did during the 1990's, I'll listen to the comparison.

Maddux.....1993, 94, 95 (Did win also in 1992 with the Cubs)

Smoltz......1996

Glavine.....1991, 98


No other rotation has dominated like those three.

 

[zinfamous]

hands down?

Halladay I'd argue is better than any of those Braves pitchers (and please don't use wins as an example of why he's not)
Oswalt is on the same level as any of those Braves pitchers - at least very close IMO

I wouldn't say Halladay is better than Maddux. that's a wee bit silly. I'd definitely say there is a very strong case for Halladay now matching how awesome Maddux was.

Dude had control and pinpoint accuracy for more than 15 seasons. what a beast. I don't think anyone was ever as consistently good and on top of his game as Maddux. People like Clemens have had spectacular seasons, yes, but Maddux was a model of consistency and accuracy.

 

[ProfJohn]

Obviously both are on their way to Canton but I think Maddux beats him out.

Why are they going to Canton?

To watch a football game perhaps?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Why are they going to Canton?

To watch a football game perhaps?

LOL Cooperstown is what I meant

 

[SP33Demon]

IMO the pitching rotation of '97/'98 Braves Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Millwood and Neagle are handsdown the best ever. I bring this up because the Phillies may challenge that status this year. What say you?

No arguments here but it's going to be very close. Also, why are you putting Millwood in there? The best rotation was 97/98 with Neagle, although each of the Phillies have performed very close to those 4 in the last 3 years. Keep in mind that Hamels is only 27 and not even in his prime yet.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/best-rotation-ever/

 

[sao123]

92-93 braves - Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery
2003 yankees - Mussina, clemens, Pettitte, Wells, Rivera


Walk, Drabek, Smith, Tomlin, Smiley, Landrum, Belinda, Kipper, Patterson
DAMN YOU!!!! STAN BELINDA, DAMN YOU!!!!!

 

[drebo]

Yeah...Braves in the 90's definitely have to take the cake on this one. As good as the current Phillies rotation is, it's just not as good.

I think the Braves teams in the 90's are some of the all-around best teams ever. Other teams may have one more games, but no other teams were that dominant that long. It's a shame they didn't win more World Serieses. I have fond memories of watching Braves games, and I'm a Yankees fan.

They're kind of painful to watch, now.

 

[ProfJohn]

I wouldn't say Halladay is better than Maddux. that's a wee bit silly. I'd definitely say there is a very strong case for Halladay now matching how awesome Maddux was.

Dude had control and pinpoint accuracy for more than 15 seasons. what a beast. I don't think anyone was ever as consistently good and on top of his game as Maddux. People like Clemens have had spectacular seasons, yes, but Maddux was a model of consistency and accuracy.

Clemens was a better pitcher than Maddux.

Statistically Clemens is probably the second best pitcher ever and he beats Maddux on many stats compared over their length of their careers.

Clemens had 17 seasons with a .600+ win percentage compared to Maddux with only 12 (Clemens had one more season)

Clemens lead the league in ERA+ 8 times Maddux only 5.

Clemens won 20 or more games 6 times to Maddux's 2.

And when you look at all the various stats that remove outside factors such as defense and runs scored by their team etc Clemens beats Maddux in all of them.

Sure Maddux had that awesome Cy Young award streak, but Clemens best year is actually better than Maddux's best year.

 

[Perknose]

Clemens was a better pitcher than Maddux.

Statistically Clemens is probably the second best pitcher ever and he beats Maddux on many stats compared over their length of their careers.

Clemens had 17 seasons with a .600+ win percentage compared to Maddux with only 12 (Clemens had one more season)

Clemens lead the league in ERA+ 8 times Maddux only 5.

Clemens won 20 or more games 6 times to Maddux's 2.

And when you look at all the various stats that remove outside factors such as defense and runs scored by their team etc Clemens beats Maddux in all of them.

Sure Maddux had that awesome Cy Young award streak, but Clemens best year is actually better than Maddux's best year.

Clemens 'roided his way to his careeer stats, and then lied and lied and lied about it all, in the most offensively pompous way possible.

Clemens and his freakishly large head are scumbag cheater liars.

Maddux was and is a class act, as a pitcher and as a human being.

Big Head 'Roid Boy doesn't belong in the same conversation with him.

 

[Syringer]

Nate Silver did a comparison chart here:

 

[Kirby]

Speaking of Braves pitchers, anybody remember that crazy fucker John Rocker? :biggrin:

 

[thegimp03]

Nate Silver did a comparison chart here:

lol, guess the Yankees couldn't buy enough pitchers to make that chart.

 

[thtadthtshldntbe]

I rarely post here, mostly just read, but.. umm baseball existed before 1990....

(Note I am a Yankees fan).

Anyone remember the 1972ish Oriole rotation, 4 20 game winners

Anyone remember, or at least read about the 1960s dodgers... Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax, plus whoever else could fit in a uniform... Just the presence of DD and SF make those dodger rotations better than any rotation people have mentioned here. Then you have the 1927 yankee rotation, the ... 1954 Cleveland Indian rotation...

 

[soulcougher73]

My pick at this point would be the Braves as mentioned already. They were just all really good pitchers but none of them were that super dominant lights out type pitcher. They just got it done in their own ways. Not a high strike out team by any means. Control was the name of their game and it worked great.

Pedro Martinez's 1999-2000 seasons are legend though. That was domination

 

[SP33Demon]

I rarely post here, mostly just read, but.. umm baseball existed before 1990....

(Note I am a Yankees fan).

Anyone remember the 1972ish Oriole rotation, 4 20 game winners

Anyone remember, or at least read about the 1960s dodgers... Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax, plus whoever else could fit in a uniform... Just the presence of DD and SF make those dodger rotations better than any rotation people have mentioned here. Then you have the 1927 yankee rotation, the ... 1954 Cleveland Indian rotation...

Nope, the 66 Dodgers don't hold a candle to Braves/2011 Phils. Neither do the O's of 1971, I did an analysis on it last Fall. The main issue was that they didn't have a studly 4th guy, just three great and one average.

 

[SP33Demon]

lol, guess the Yankees couldn't buy enough pitchers to make that chart.

The Yankees are about making money. Which means they buy hitters, not pitchers. On that note, don't be surprised if the A's win the division over Texas in 2011 with Hideki Matsui as their cleanup.

 

[ThePresence]

I rarely post here, mostly just read, but.. umm baseball existed before 1990....

(Note I am a Yankees fan).

Anyone remember the 1972ish Oriole rotation, 4 20 game winners

Anyone remember, or at least read about the 1960s dodgers... Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax, plus whoever else could fit in a uniform... Just the presence of DD and SF make those dodger rotations better than any rotation people have mentioned here. Then you have the 1927 yankee rotation, the ... 1954 Cleveland Indian rotation...

Wow. You win Lurker of the Century award.

 

[drebo]

lol, guess the Yankees couldn't buy enough pitchers to make that chart.

My biggest complaint over the past 10 years is a complete absence of pitching talent.

I mean, seriously...look at it this year...one legitimate starter, one guy who's sometimes good, and then two guys who arguably should still be in Triple-A, and then a guy who was washed up last year.

I just don't understand it. Either way, the Yanks are going to have to make a serious trade in July if they want a prayer of winning it all this year.

 

[zokudu]

That chart reminded me of the A's earlier this decade. Wasn't there a book on how awesome that pitching lineup was compared to how cheap it was.

 

[Blackjack200]

My biggest complaint over the past 10 years is a complete absence of pitching talent.

I mean, seriously...look at it this year...one legitimate starter, one guy who's sometimes good, and then two guys who arguably should still be in Triple-A, and then a guy who was washed up last year.

I just don't understand it. Either way, the Yanks are going to have to make a serious trade in July if they want a prayer of winning it all this year.

You only need 2 great starters to win a world series if you have a good lineup. See Diamondbacks, Arizona.

Either someone will step up and be that #2 guy, or they'll trade for someone. Not a big deal. Isn't it nice rooting for the biggest money team in the only north american team sport without a salary cap? :biggrin:

 

[Blackjack200]

I wouldn't say Halladay is better than Maddux. that's a wee bit silly. I'd definitely say there is a very strong case for Halladay now matching how awesome Maddux was.

Dude had control and pinpoint accuracy for more than 15 seasons. what a beast. I don't think anyone was ever as consistently good and on top of his game as Maddux. People like Clemens have had spectacular seasons, yes, but Maddux was a model of consistency and accuracy.

Maddux was a brilliant pitcher, that cannot be denied. He also had a plate that was about a foot and a half wider than anyone else.

 

[KGB]

1971 Baltimore Orioles.

Four 20 game winners: Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar and Pat Dobson.

/thread