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Greatest basketball player of all time?

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blanco...u need to jump off wilt's schlong lol.

btw, in my opinion i think the 80's was THE definitive peak of the NBA in terms of the game's quality. The game today is a lot less physical in terms of defense and MJ in his prime would no doubt shatter record after record if he were to play today. Wilt was great, but he was great IN HIS TIME. Wilt wouldn't have come close to the records he put up in the 60s if he were to play with the big names of the 80's. The players in the 60s really would be no match for the complexity that the game evolved to in the 80s/early 90s when it became more mainstream. And for those who say the 80s was toned down and less physical, i've got one team to mention....bad boys of detroit! 🙂

So in conclusion, the peak of the NBA was the 80's and the greatest bball player of all time would have to be the greatest player in that era...that nod would go to MJ (you can argue magic also but IMO mj had a greater impact on the game itself)
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Wilt set all most of his scoring records in 1960-1966, he only finished in the top 10 TWICE from 1967 - 1973, he finished 3rd in 1967 and 1968. You can blame it on the coach all you want, but the fact of the matter is: Why would a coach tell the alleged greatest scorer of all time, if he was in fact the greatest scorer, not to be the go to guy? Did Phil Jackson ever tell MJ not to "score as much"? Would MJ have still won 6 titles if his coach told him not to score as much? Hell no. That's why I don't think Wilt was the greatest scorer.
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First, what does it matter when he set the records, the fact is he set them. Also, if you look I haven't mentioned a coach anywhere in anything I have posted. Don't confuse me with someone else. My point is you called Wilt a "good" scorer. It is ridiculous to call him simply a "good" scorer. Also since you like to compare scoring years, what year was Jordan's best? Well I can answer that for you 86-87 where he averaged 37.1. Now tell me did he win a championship? NO. Okay so what was his next best year? 87-88 where he averaged 35.0 points. Did he win a championship? NO. What was his third best year? 89-90 where he averaged 33.6. Did he win a championship? NO. His best scoring year as a champion was his fourth best scoring year overall. 92-93 when he averaged 32.6. So yes his scoring went down because he had better teammates and played better team basketball to win those championships.

In addition, Chamberlain didn't get along well with his last coach Van Breda Kolff (LA Lakers 69-73, read about Wilt being benched in the final minutes of Game 7 1969) and was quoted as not being "on the same page" as his first coach Dolph Schayes (1960-1966). Was there ever a coach that MJ didn't get along with?
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Again, I am not arguing that he is the best player. My argument is that you stating he is a "good" scorer is laughable.

Also, you mention Marino and Mario, but they weren't the greatest ever in scoring in their respective sports (many of Marino's records are getting broken by Manning and Favre). Although Mario definitely was more of a leader than Wilt was (like I explained above). Did Wilt have the mental toughness of Gretzky, MJ, Payton, Rice, Favre, Manning, Magic, Bird, Isiah? No, he did not.
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Again, you are still not picking up on my argument. I am not BlancoNino, I am not comparing leadership, mental toughness or anything else. I am merely saying you can't call him a "good" scorer. My opinion is he is the greatest, if you don't agree, fine, but he is a great scorer no matter what your opinion of him is as an overall player.

If Wilt got along with his coaches more, was more competitive/killer instinct (he said he never was), and won more championships (his last team certainly had the pieces with J.West, Elgin) then I would say he's greatest ever. This equated to the fact that he squandered too many opportunities (1969 spat with Lakers coach in Game 7, 1970 Willis Reed in Game 7, 1960-1966 getting exploited for his free throw shooting by the Celtics) in crunch time that guys like MJ would have never let happen.

More on how his poor FT shooting prevented Wilt's team from ever beating the Celtics from 1960-1966, from Wiki:
"Celtics forward Tom Heinsohn said his team ruthlessly exploited his only weakness, free throw shooting, with an early version of the Hack-a-Shaq (a tactic in which a poor free throw shooter is intentionally fouled, in the hope that he misses free throws and the team gets an easy ball possession without giving up many points). "Half the fouls against him were hard fouls", Heinsohn continued, "he [Chamberlain] took the most brutal pounding of any player ever". An additional point was that Chamberlain refrained from retaliating, and preferred to play through the many fouls. [1]

This tactic proved highly effective against Chamberlain. Since the Celtics were in the same Eastern Division as the Warriors, Chamberlain and his teammates could not even reach the NBA Finals without finding a way to beat them."

So to reiterate: MJ never had problems with teams exploiting his FT shooting, got along with his coaches and was a leader who made his teammates better without sacrificing scoring, was a super competitive guy with a vicious killer instinct, and frequently embarrassed his opponents in the postseason i.e. clutch (unlike Wilt's letdown vs Willis Reed which will always be remembered in history). That's why MJ is the greatest over Wilt, he took advantage of his opportunities more.
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So to reiterate: I am not arguing that he is the greatest player to play the game. I am arguing that your classifying he as a "good" scorer is rather ridiculous.

But to address your arguments against him as a player, check with guys who played the game. I think you will find that they have a great deal more respect for Wilt than you do. Was he the greatest in my opinion, no. I think the eras and the game make it truly impossible to determine THE greatest and it really depends on the criterion you choose on being the greatest.

The only thing I know is fact is that he was a great rebounder, great scorer, great passer and great shot blocker. He was an athlete who was ahead of his time. He was definitely flawed and you have pointed out some of them, but everything you have pointed out take nothing away from his ability to score, rebound, pass and block shots.
 
Michael Jordan would be the one I would want on my team. If i wanted to win games, and for mere productivity. He is clutch, straight up, and that is followed by statistics. He's also a play maker, has very good "court vision" thus making his team mates better players as well.
 
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
How many championships did Bill Russell win - was it 11?

That has to be the most important criteria since that is why all players theoretically play.

So I would say Bill Russell.
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Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would also be pretty high up there, then...

FWIW, my answer to this question is Magic
 
MJ at the top, with an open spot for Iverson.

If Iverson ever matures, he has the possibility. Iverson, Wilt and MJ are the only players to average 30+ pts/game for 5 or more seasons. That's some pretty good company. Jordan needed his supporting cast to complement him. Iverson singlehandedly took his team all the way to the finals.

Too bad Iverson is a piece of scum, otherwise he'd be so much greater
 
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