Great article compares violence in Iraq to violence in California

[ProfJohn]

A little perspective on the daily body count we see in the national news.
As of this morning the American death toll in Iraq is 101 for October, meanwhile the number of people murdered in California this month should be around 200.
Read it for yourself here
Highlights

imagine what the reaction would be if the world awoke each morning to be told that once again there were six more murders, 27 rapes, 38 arsons, 180 robberies, and 360 instances of assault in California ? yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day. I wonder if the headlines would scream about ?Nearly 200 poor Californians butchered again this month!?

How about a monthly media dose of ?600 women raped in February alone!? Or try, ?Over 600 violent robberies and assaults in March, with no end in sight!? Those do not even make up all of the state?s yearly 200,000 violent acts that law enforcement knows about.

Some of California?s most recent prison scandals would be easy to sensationalize: ?Guards watch as inmates are raped!? Or ?Correction officer accused of having sex with underaged detainee!?

Some more great newspaper headlines that would be 100% accurate portrayal of California.

?Illegal aliens in state comprise population larger than San Francisco!?
?Drugs, criminals, and smugglers given free pass into California!?
"300 Californians to perish this month on state highways! Hundreds more will be maimed and crippled!?
?Another $100 million borrowed today ? $3 billion more in red ink to pile up by month?s end!?

The above just shows how much the media sensationalizes the bad news out of Iraq, especially the daily body count we have gotten this month. You have to wonder if we weren't heading into an election if we would have the daily update on yahoo.com. I don't remember seeing the day after day detail of the number of dead last month or the month before.

No mater how you look at it, the fact is that nearly twice as many Americans will be murdered in California this month than will die in Iraq. It is obvious that California is a hopeless quagmire and we should withdraw from the state immediately and redeploy everyone to Oregon.

 

[umbrella39]

if we give you enough of these will you stop posting? To those who actually try and engage you in some sort of meaningful debate, good luck. Just another people die more at point A so ignore point B ****** stained OP.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: [bBanned Member wit a new ISPJohn[/b]
A little perspective on the daily body count we see in the national news.
As of this morning the American death toll in Iraq is 101 for October, meanwhile the number of people murdered in California this month should be around 200.
Read it for yourself here
Highlights

imagine what the reaction would be if the world awoke each morning to be told that once again there were six more murders, 27 rapes, 38 arsons, 180 robberies, and 360 instances of assault in California ? yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day. I wonder if the headlines would scream about ?Nearly 200 poor Californians butchered again this month!?

How about a monthly media dose of ?600 women raped in February alone!? Or try, ?Over 600 violent robberies and assaults in March, with no end in sight!? Those do not even make up all of the state?s yearly 200,000 violent acts that law enforcement knows about.

Some of California?s most recent prison scandals would be easy to sensationalize: ?Guards watch as inmates are raped!? Or ?Correction officer accused of having sex with underaged detainee!?

Some more great newspaper headlines that would be 100% accurate portrayal of California.

?Illegal aliens in state comprise population larger than San Francisco!?
?Drugs, criminals, and smugglers given free pass into California!?
"300 Californians to perish this month on state highways! Hundreds more will be maimed and crippled!?
?Another $100 million borrowed today ? $3 billion more in red ink to pile up by month?s end!?

The above just shows how much the media sensationalizes the bad news out of Iraq, especially the daily body count we have gotten this month. You have to wonder if we weren't heading into an election if we would have the daily update on yahoo.com. I don't remember seeing the day after day detail of the number of dead last month or the month before.

No mater how you look at it, the fact is that nearly twice as many Americans will be murdered in California this month than will die in Iraq. It is obvious that California is a hopeless quagmire and we should withdraw from the state immediately and redeploy everyone to Oregon.

:roll: Wow that was a convincing argument NOT!!

 

[Genx87]

I do find it interesting when you look at crime rates in parts of the United States compared to Iraq.

Although I think they are apples and oranges, it does shed some light on the sensationalizing the media does on a daily basis.

The one that always gets me is the over 30,000 people a year who die on our road ways from drunk driving.

That is a shatload of people.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The one that always gets me is the over 30,000 people a year who die on our road ways from drunk driving.

:thumbsup:

I think it is an apples and oranges comparison...the war in Iraq, and our losses there, deserve media coverage.

However, murder rates, drunk driving deaths and other statistics deserve equal attention, as they are metrics of the failures within our society.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The one that always gets me is the over 30,000 people a year who die on our road ways from drunk driving.

:thumbsup:

I think it is an apples and oranges comparison...the war in Iraq, and our losses there, deserve media coverage.

However, murder rates, drunk driving deaths and other statistics deserve equal attention, as they are metrics of the failures within our society.

A dangerous bridge or road, a faulty vehcle, unsafe products, etc always get a lot of media attention.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Of course you're ignoring all of the Iraqi deaths this month, far more than 200.

Slay the course!

 

[Craig234]

So, you're comparing 100 killed out of 140,000 troops to 200 killed out of 35 million Californians.

The right has been tricking the more gullible with this statistical lie for years.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

What's interesting is how PJ can, in this thread, completely discount the significance of the deaths of American GIs, yet in the Kerry thread, act horribly offended by his own interpretation of Kerry's comment yesterday.

The reality, of course, is that chickenhawks only care about "supporting the troops" when it's politically expedient. PJ couldn't care less if they're killed, and their children orphaned, for no good reason.

 

[Starbuck1975]

A dangerous bridge or road, a faulty vehcle, unsafe products, etc always get a lot of media attention.

Yes, usually if it involves a corporation or product, and subsequent litigation, it gets media attention on par with Iraq.

But social dynamics that result in high body counts...drunk driving, gang and drug related violence, etc. Not a peep beyond a brief mention here or there.

 

[Arkaign]

I've made this kind of comparison myself, but for different reasons. Let's follow the logic for a moment.

101 deaths of U.S. military personnel in one month.

200+ deaths of citizens in California in one month.

If I'm not mistaken, you're basically trying to say that 'well, Iraq isn't so dangerous, and more people die from violence here in one state than over there'. Hmm, well there's no doubt that you can come to that general conclusion, but it's apples to oranges really.

You can stop 100% of the U.S. military deaths in Iraq by BRINGING THEM ALL HOME. As long as we leave them there, they will be ceaselessly murdered by those cowards. By all standards, the Iraqi campaign is a brutal and pointless failure. There is no point to sustaining occupation.

There is not such a simple way to immediately end all violent deaths in California.

This is not to say that violence in extreme fashion will not continue in Iraq for the forseeable future. It is just to say that further loss of our soldier's lives is both useless and wasteful. I am proud of our soldiers, ashamed of our leaders.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: DonVito
What's interesting is how PJ can, in this thread, completely discount the significance of the deaths of American GIs, yet in the Kerry thread, act horribly offended by his own interpretation of Kerry's comment yesterday.

The reality, of course, is that chickenhawks only care about "supporting the troops" when it's politically expedient. PJ couldn't care less if they're killed, and their children orphaned, for no good reason.

Yep. Just a hypocrite. Like someone else already posted, if we give him enough 's, will he just leave???

 

[morkman100]

Population of California = 34,000,000
Troops in Iraq = 130,000

In California, 1 in 170,000 people are murdered per month.
In Iraq, 1 in 1300 troops are killed per month

If the rate of deaths in Iraq were the same as in California, there would 30-35 soldier deaths so far (since March 2003)... not 3000.

 

[tomywishbone]

The op is correct. This is an absolutely valid comparison. Stay the course.:thumbsup:

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: morkman100
Population of California = 34,000,000
Troops in Iraq = 130,000

In California, 1 in 170,000 people are murdered per month.
In Iraq, 1 in 1300 troops are killed per month

If the rate of deaths in Iraq were the same as in California, there would 30-35 soldier deaths so far (since March 2003)... not 3000.

dude, don't you know that ProfJohn doesn't understand logic? Ratios and percentages are way to difficult for him to understand, you need to rely on absolute numbers and obfuscate the truth in order to get his ilk to understand.

Not to mention that a more accurate comparison would be the # of police officers, fire-fighters, soldiers, and other civil-servants killed in California compared to the number of Iraqi soldiers.

Or, to keep on the path of civilians, the number of civilians killed in Iraq compared to the number of civilians mudered in California. If we go with a more median estimate of 200,000 Iraqis killed, you would get 5,555 killed per month. Even if we went with Bushcos numbers, it would be 1,388 or so.

Equivalent number in California would be either 1,762 per month or 7,264. That's pretty shocking! California's murder rate would have to skyrocket by 8-35x to be on an equvalent basis as Iraq.

Hmmm....

 

[ProfJohn]

Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

The point of the OP-ED was to marginalize what is really going on over there. It isn't sensationalized, it is real. It is a fact that, on a per capita basis, far more soldiers are dying. It is a fact that on a per-capita basis, far more soldiers are severely injured. It is a fact that far more Iraqi civilians are dying per-capita.

That article is a nice attempt to spin what is a failing war that is not only costing us a lot of lives on a per-capita basis, but also a lot of money, time, and precious resources. You and your ilk will do anything to justify it, whether by trying to obfuscate the numbers, attempting to gloss over the details, trying to marginalize bad news by calling it sensationalist, it's all the same.

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

Mmmmnope! Wrong again. Please try to read and understand posts before you reply to them. You're dangerously close to becoming a troll.

 

[Arkaign]

It's not sensationalized headlines at all coming from the media, if anything they're downplaying the fact that for every 1,000 Americans, your chance of meeting a violent end are MANY MANY times higher in Iraq.

You failed to respond to that FACT. Don't ignore it PJ. Respond directly to that fact.

 

[Lemon law]

earth to Non-Prof John,

Is it just pure dumb luck chance that Rush talked about this very thing yesterday on the radio?---and unrelated to your post?

But if you want a meaningful comparison---try 655,000 Iraqi dead in war related violence in 3.5 years.

And 200 non-war related murders per month for 3.5 years would not even crack 10,000 in 3.5 years.---and California is 40% larger in population.

Now tell me how 655,000 vs. 10,000 are even remotely comparable-----------why can't you can't think for yourself?---and use some of the brains you supposedly have to evaluate
the garbage you are being fed.

And then when you trot the same phony baloney out here---you expect any here to be likewise impressed with a Rush Limbaugh revelation-----as we effortlessly shoot down another ill thought out Limbaugh phony argument---AGAIN.---------not many ditto heads here---we think for ourselves.

But now that the final numbers for October are in---106 I believe---out of 140,000 US troops---and extrapolate that to a California size population --that would weigh in at 26,500/mo. or 318,000 new murders per year. Now that, Non-Prof John would grab some newspaper headlines if it happened in California. And since there are at least 10x the number of disabilities as deaths---try 3.18 million new disabilities per year----or 10% of the entire population.-----at that rate only 69.1 % of the State would be left unaffected in 3.5 years.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

:roll:

First of all, OP-ED pieces are usually piles of crap. I don't care if they are supporting Democrats or Republicans. They are written by biased people who want to sell you something, and most people who read them only do so because they need someone else's opinion to form their own.

Second, comparing the number of deaths in California to the number of deaths in Iraq is a childish oversimplification. There are a lot more people living in California than there are troops in Iraq. That piece represents the worst kind of op-ed there is. A writer who doesn't even understand the difference between raw numbers and percentages. The fact that you repost it here doesn't speak kindly of you, either. You are so desperate to play down Bush's greatest weakness that you are trying to point out that the death of American soldiers in Iraq "isn't really all that bad".

You honestly sicken me.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

The point of the OP-ED was to marginalize what is really going on over there. It isn't sensationalized, it is real. It is a fact that, on a per capita basis, far more soldiers are dying. It is a fact that on a per-capita basis, far more soldiers are severely injured. It is a fact that far more Iraqi civilians are dying per-capita.

That article is a nice attempt to spin what is a failing war that is not only costing us a lot of lives on a per-capita basis, but also a lot of money, time, and precious resources. You and your ilk will do anything to justify it, whether by trying to obfuscate the numbers, attempting to gloss over the details, trying to marginalize bad news by calling it sensationalist, it's all the same.

-------------------------
dmcowen674

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I am a Moron. That's been proven many times...
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I surrender my crown of King of Morons

 

[jackschmittusa]

ProfJohn

So, toss me a number. How high would the American death toll in Iraq have to be to deserve the coverage it gets?

Perhaps the media needs to apologize to the families of the dead. You know, sort of a "We're sorry we mentioned the death of your brother/father/son/husband. It really was a trivial event in the grand scheme of things.".

I'd bet you could do a great infomercial for, oh, say War-O-matic. Grinds them, chops them, easily affordable, and cheap at twice the price.

 

[CellarDoor]

Ugh, I can't even begin to understand the point of this thread.

Iraq going badly, so lets compare it to California!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Banned Member with a new ISP
Nice attempts to insult my intelligence and everything else, you guys must be following the John Kerry handbook.

The point of the OP-ED is that all we get out of Iraq is sensationalized headlines and nothing else. He is pointing out that you can look at the state of California and create your own long list of sensationalized headlines that would make California look just as dangerous as Iraq.

What's so sentionalized about reporting the truth? Rapes, Murder, Accidents, floods etc are reported all the time. I guess the difference is those deaths are caused by a catastpophic failure in foriegn policy.