Gray Davis recall - paradoxical?

[mugs]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030616-457380,00.html
http://www.chronwatch.com/editorial/contentDisplay.asp?aid=3072

Now, I'm not a Bush-hater or anything (I'm a Republican, and I voted for him), and I don't feel that I know enough about economics to weigh in on Bush's tax cut and the surplus and such, but I thought it was pretty funny how hypocritical people can be when it comes to politics. Bush takes office with a big surplus and turns it into a huge deficit, and the Republicans see nothing wrong with that. But Gray Davis does the same thing in California, and they want to have a special vote to RECALL him! That's pretty extreme. And with Arnold thinking about running, I can just see all of the lame "Total Recall" jokes starting.

 

[SuperTool]

Republican = hypocrite. Nothing paradoxical about that.
They couldn't beat Davis in an election, and now they want a second chance.
If the impeachment and 2000 election is any indication, the republicans aren't interested in who the American people voted for, so why should they be interested in who the California people voted for?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Republican = hypocrite. Nothing paradoxical about that.
They couldn't beat Davis in an election, and now they want a second chance.
If the impeachment and 2000 election is any indication

Oh please, don't hijack the thread with this drivel. IIRC, the initial results had Bush winning by .5% in Florida. Gore won by .5% in the popular vote. You didn't hear Republicans bitching about a nationwide recount to determine who REALLY won the popular vote, did you? It's the way the electoral college works, get over it. Gore blew it by not letting Clinton campaign for him. Personally, I'd have rather seen McCain or Bradley.

Man I hate partisan politics.

 

[KAMAZON]

the head of the LA Democrats came to our LaRouche office last night to get us to help them stop this Grey Davis recall, since they couldn't get 4 people to deploy for a whole day with good pay, while LaRouche gets 50 people out a day in LA LOL.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Party Players = hypocrites. There is no way for them not to be. People make the same mistakes and then point at the other party every time. Old news. Its almost impossible now for anyone to call someone out for something they've done because at some point or another their party has done it too. I try to vote issues not parties. The problem is neither party likes a swing voter because they haven't joined up with all their heart and soul. Ironically its the swing that will get them the win. Schwarzenegger had a great (sarcastic) one-liner the other day to the people of California: "I'm sorry I have suddenly forgotten the name of the Governor of this great state, but I'm sure you will help me recall him." At least he isn't making more comedies.

 

[LunarRay]

When Davis was Chief of Staff for Moonbeam Brown he seemed to be a bit more left some would say and a bit more right others would say then now... I tend to agree with each position he's taken. It is the money mongers and energy thief who want Davis stopped or put back a step or two as he seeks refunds for the engineered energy crisis awhile back. The rest of his agenda seems middle road to me. Not his fault the US economy dove... seems a Federal issue and not much of a state one.
Good man Davis... let him alone and function for our best interests or is this another right wing weaken the guy effort?

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030616-457380,00.html
http://www.chronwatch.com/editorial/contentDisplay.asp?aid=3072

Now, I'm not a Bush-hater or anything (I'm a Republican, and I voted for him), and I don't feel that I know enough about economics to weigh in on Bush's tax cut and the surplus and such, but I thought it was pretty funny how hypocritical people can be when it comes to politics. Bush takes office with a big surplus and turns it into a huge deficit, and the Republicans see nothing wrong with that. But Gray Davis does the same thing in California, and they want to have a special vote to RECALL him! That's pretty extreme. And with Arnold thinking about running, I can just see all of the lame "Total Recall" jokes starting.

The difference is that the Federal gov't can run deficits so they never really have to make difficult choices. They can just deficit spend until the sacred cows come home. Most state gov't (CA included) cannot by state law run budget deficits and must balance the budget each year. Of course there are economic gimmicks and borrowing which lead to structural deficits but in theory, CA must somehow balance the budget. I think CA will just borrow against the state pensions and float more bonds and increase some taxes and fees while cutting only some to make up for the deficit.

Anyway, back on point. The recall is a legal avenue to remove a person from office. I think if they can get the 900,000 signatures then they have every right to do so. However, nobody has any evidence that Gray Davis has done anything illegal or some other criteria that would make him unfit to serve as governor. We just had an election in 2002, where the people that voted, re-elected him to serve another 4 years. Nothing since then has changed in my opinion that would warrant this recall. This is a blatant partisan attempt to undo an election on top of being a huge waste of money (if a special election is called).
The person funding the effort is a right-wing conservative Congressmen who did not have the balls to challenge Gray Davis in the last election.
Again, I will paraphrase what Republican love to say about the 2000 election. Bill Simon (2002 Rep. nominee for Governor) LOST ... get over it.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030616-457380,00.html
http://www.chronwatch.com/editorial/contentDisplay.asp?aid=3072

Now, I'm not a Bush-hater or anything (I'm a Republican, and I voted for him), and I don't feel that I know enough about economics to weigh in on Bush's tax cut and the surplus and such, but I thought it was pretty funny how hypocritical people can be when it comes to politics. Bush takes office with a big surplus and turns it into a huge deficit, and the Republicans see nothing wrong with that. But Gray Davis does the same thing in California, and they want to have a special vote to RECALL him! That's pretty extreme. And with Arnold thinking about running, I can just see all of the lame "Total Recall" jokes starting.

The difference is that the Federal gov't can run deficits so they never really have to make difficult choices. They can just deficit spend until the sacred cows come home. Most state gov't (CA included) cannot by state law run budget deficits and must balance the budget each year. Of course there are economic gimmicks and borrowing which lead to structural deficits but in theory, CA must somehow balance the budget. I think CA will just borrow against the state pensions and float more bonds and increase some taxes and fees while cutting only some to make up for the deficit.

Anyway, back on point. The recall is a legal avenue to remove a person from office. I think if they can get the 900,000 signatures then they have every right to do so. However, nobody has any evidence that Gray Davis has done anything illegal or some other criteria that would make him unfit to serve as governor. We just had an election in 2002, where the people that voted, re-elected him to serve another 4 years. Nothing since then has changed in my opinion that would warrant this recall. This is a blatant partisan attempt to undo an election on top of being a huge waste of money (if a special election is called).
The person funding the effort is a right-wing conservative Congressmen who did not have the balls to challenge Gray Davis in the last election.
Again, I will paraphrase what Republican love to say about the 2000 election. Bill Simon (2002 Rep. nominee for Governor) LOST ... get over it.

That's exactly right. The republicans, in their elitist self-righteous way, think that we all made a huge mistake, and are just sitting here waiting for them to fix it.
Well, they are still accusing Davis of stuff that was well known before he was reelected, and even for the energy crisis that is a result of Wilson's deregulation policies.. If something new had happened, I could understand, but as it stands now, they are just using the process to get a second chance that they don't deserve, and to waste the governor's and peoples' time and the government's money.. Had they nominated Riordan instead of that village idiot Simon, they would have had the governor's office, with my vote too. W

 

[Macro2]

It appears that californians with their "holier than thou" liberal attitude have gotten just what they bargained for. Bankruptcy.
It remains to be seen if they can take the pain and dish out the pain necessary to clean up the mess. My guess is NO WAY to san JOSE...

Shoot, they let Mexico take back their sate without a shot.


Mac

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Macro2
It appears that californians with their "holier than thou" liberal attitude have gotten just what they bargained for. Bankruptcy.
It remains to be seen if they can take the pain and dish out the pain necessary to clean up the mess. My guess is NO WAY to san JOSE...

Shoot, they let Mexico take back their sate without a shot.


Mac

We can fill the state with all sorts of folks and still not be happy. The more folks the merrier. Spreads the tax burden out more. We like our diverse ethnic mix. Makes us more worldly. We can change the name from California to New Earth.

 

[Macro2]

RE:"The more folks the merrier. Spreads the tax burden out more"

Nothing could be further from the truth.
California is becoming more 3rd world by the day.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Funniest thing is how democrats are always promoting themselves as champions of the education system and what's the first thing that gets gutted after the demos destroy our state economy? All those teachers voted for Davis and he screws them. LOL.

People just want to give Davis the finger for his ineptitude through the budget crisis and energy crisis and actually bringing a recall to vote is one hell of a finger.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"The more folks the merrier. Spreads the tax burden out more"

Nothing could be further from the truth.
California is becoming more 3rd world by the day.

Well then..I guess Idaho or Montana is the picture of American diversity. What makes us strong is our sameness... sameness of speech and color and culture and ideology.

I'd not want to live in a California made up of all sorts of 3rd world nationalities... I might see the absence of difference. Yeah... maybe the difference of absence is the key..

 

[Macro2]

Diversity doesn't mean you have to become 3rd world and run up a 38 billion dollar debt while you destroy the state...and turn it into a slum welfare state...
The voters will get there say when Davis gets recalled.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Macro2
Diversity doesn't mean you have to become 3rd world and run up a 38 billion dollar debt while you destroy the state...and turn it into a slum welfare state...
The voters will get there say when Davis gets recalled.

They had "their" say when they voted for Davis over simple Simon. Let the Republicans put up a decent candidate for Governor or the Senate first before they piss and moan like whores with sand in their vaseline.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Macro2
Diversity doesn't mean you have to become 3rd world and run up a 38 billion dollar debt while you destroy the state...and turn it into a slum welfare state...
The voters will get there say when Davis gets recalled.

38B.. Is this Davis or the economical decisions of the central government. What control does the Govenor of a state have that can materially affect the broader issues confronting it. When the economy was healthy so was California and its diverse culture... Look to DC and see if the decisions there make sense for California. WE are not an independent nation of Californian we are part of the body... a big part granted but simply a part. Foreign alien intrusion into this state is a federal issue and every service they consume is and ought to be a federal issue. Let the feds reimburse us for the absence of control on that issue and we'll be in fine stead.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Macro2
Diversity doesn't mean you have to become 3rd world and run up a 38 billion dollar debt while you destroy the state...and turn it into a slum welfare state...
The voters will get there say when Davis gets recalled.

They had "their" say when they voted for Davis over simple Simon. Let the Republicans put up a decent candidate for Governor or the Senate first before they piss and moan like whores with sand in their vaseline.

as romantic as the thought of making love on a beach is, sand really does get everywhere.

Unless it has changed from the last time I saw the numbers, immigrants generally put far more into the system than they take out, especially illegal ones, who have no rights or access to social programs. Usually "native" americans take much more than they do on average...

 

[Macro2]

RE:"WE are not an independent nation of Californian we are part of the body"

Yep, everyone is "part of the body" when their a$$ is in a crack. Like, yeah, we screwed up our State so please come bail us out.

Grin and bear it...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"WE are not an independent nation of Californian we are part of the body"

Yep, everyone is "part of the body" when their a$$ is in a crack. Like, yeah, we screwed up our State so please come bail us out.

Grin and bear it...

Like you would have a fscking clue. Sounds more like California Envy to me.

 

[Macro2]

RE:"Like you would have a fscking clue. Sounds more like California Envy to me."

I'm a U of Cal. grad. Testy aren't you?

Just hate seeing the State go in the toilet

RE:"They had "their" say when they voted for Davis over simple Simon. Let the Republicans put up a decent candidate for Governor or the Senate first before they piss and moan like whores with sand in their vaseline."

They next governor will be one term. Not popular telling people they have to tighten their belts.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"Like you would have a fscking clue. Sounds more like California Envy to me."

I'm a U of Cal. grad. Testy aren't you?

Just hate seeing the State go in the toilet

My mistake. Sorry

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"WE are not an independent nation of Californian we are part of the body"

Yep, everyone is "part of the body" when their a$$ is in a crack. Like, yeah, we screwed up our State so please come bail us out.

Grin and bear it...

You've a view, I've a view, he, she or it has a view.... Mine is simply that we have significant unemployment, corporate profit is down, other revenues are off while the consumption side has increased. Thus the variance... yeah I know.. da.
The point is. In the last two years Californians have refied housing and drawn out equity of significant $. The economic stimuli of '01 and the current stimuli seem not to have had an impact favorable to California. (the national equity draw was 160B according the 'freddie mac' California had a large part of that) California can generate some impact to its own economic growth but, not a material one. The revenue garnered by the 'illegals' v their consumption in schooling, health, etc. is not a positive it is a negative. The Feds garner from tax, Fica, etc. Plus there is the 'hiring of illegals' that take legal's jobs. (the classic argument is; they take jobs no one else would have).
Why not also recall the legislature... have they no part in this? Perhaps we should tax the Indians Casino's and the Federal boys... "McCullah v Maryland" type issues. Lots of Internet sales that avoid state tax too. I've read there is significant threat to local stores due to this and the tax revenue is not comming in.