Graphics card for older DX9 games

[brawleyman]

I currently have an XFX 7600GS that runs at 400core/333mem. I have it overclocked to 450/450 and I can see a noticeable improvement in my games. I know that I am playing in the stone age, but I love the NFS series of games (ie. Carbon, Most Wanted, Underground, Hot Pursuit 2, etc. I can currently turn up all the graphics almost all the way up, but I have to keep at a little lower resolution, or turn the shading down a notch to keep constant frame rates without any hiccups or slow downs when I crash and smoke and sparks go flying.

I don't game an awful lot, but I do enjoy the racing, which is pretty much all that I play on my computer. I was thinking of trying to find a 7600gt on craigslist or something that had DDR3 memory and a faster core clock, but then there are cards like the HD 4650, 2600XT, 8600GT, 9500GT, and so on that have low power requirements and would work in my PC, which only has a 305w PSU. I still run Windows XP MCE 2005, I am not going to get Vista, or a new psu, or anything like that. I just want to know what kind of experience people have had with older DX9 games on newer hardware. I have seen on-line that newer cards are of course faster with newer games, but I am only talking about older games and how older graphics cards compare to the new ones. Any experience or suggestions? Thanks!

 

[masteryoda34]

Do you know if your card is AGP or PCI-Express?

 

[brawleyman]

Oh, sorry, it is PCI Express x16

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

One of the big advantages of running older games on newer hardware is that you can crank up some settings, like AA, to very high levels. Being that your 7600GS was barely even a midrange card in it's heyday, you will notice a dramatic increase in the performance/eye candy of older titles.

A 4670 for under $70 would be a good choice for you, IMO.

 

[brawleyman]

What about the 2600xt? There is one on Newegg for $50, free shipping and $15 mir. From what I have been able to find, it looks like the NFS games favor the ATI cards over Nvidia, is that true? The other card I was considering was the 9500gt.

 

[qbfx]

The HD4670 is far better than those two you're talking about, it requires no external power connector and will run on your PSU just fine.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: brawleyman
What about the 2600xt? There is one on Newegg for $50, free shipping and $15 mir. From what I have been able to find, it looks like the NFS games favor the ATI cards over Nvidia, is that true? The other card I was considering was the 9500gt.

The 2600xt is already 2 generations out of date, and can't hold a candle to the 4670.

Generally speaking, avoid any x500 cards from Nvidia. Their performance tends to be below the "acceptable" threshold for gaming.

I have no idea if ATI outperforms Nvidia with NFS games. I kinda doubt the gap would be all that large, anyway.

 

[brawleyman]

The 4670 sounds good, but I hate to spend $80 (including shipping) to get something that allows me to turn on more details for a few games. How does the 2600XT or 4670 compare to nvidia products in Autocad or Sketchup (or any other 3d design programs)? Looks like the particular 2600XT on newegg I was checking out needs a 400watt PSU, but they are playing at really high resolutions and overclocking. I won't be overclocking and the highest resolution I could possibly go is 1680x1050.

 

[roid450]

the old 7800GTX i had played all those games more than fine on everything high. when i got need for speeds carbon the 7800GTX struggled with eye candy. A 9600GT will handle Need For Speed Carbon on all high with some aliasing and should be able to kill the older Need For Speed games. Look around for a 9600GT if you can, or for a few more bucks a 8800GT.

I personally would never recommend ATI, even if some cards have the same specs as another, i still always hear people bitching about ATI and drivers left and right non stop. :Q :Q

 

[brawleyman]

My psu doesn't have enough power for a 9600gt or above. I think that I am between a 9500gt or a 4670. From what I have been able to find, Nvidia has better OpenGL support, so my design programs should run better on the 9500gt, but the NFS games supposedly run better on the ATI. Hopefully, there will be something with free shipping and mir I can take advantage of and get something nice for under $50.

 

[RajunCajun]

The PSU in your Dell will probably work perfectly. Before my new XPS420, I had a Dimension 4700 with a 305W psu. I ran a 7600GT, 7900GS, and a 8800GS with no problems. The 8800GS ran kinka hot, but that was due to poor air circulation in the case. In my XPS420 the same 8800GS runs around 15C cooler.

 

[brawleyman]

I found a review of the 2600xt vs an 8600gt on tomshardware...

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...xt-remixed,1684-9.html

Looks like the ATI does good without AA, but when you turn it on the ATI drops like a rock, whereas the 8600gt holds good. Looks like I may be steering towards Nvidia, especially since it seems to do better with AA and OpenGL, plus, I am familiar with Nvidia.

So, my next question is how does the 9500gt and 8600gt compare? They are roughly the same price, but you can find more 8600gt's with bigger mir's or free shipping. What do you think of these 2 cards?

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: roid450
I personally would never recommend ATI, even if some cards have the same specs as another, i still always hear people bitching about ATI and drivers left and right non stop. :Q :Q

No need to start yet another Nvidia vs Ati driver discussion.

Originally posted by: brawleyman
I found a review of the 2600xt vs an 8600gt on tomshardware...

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...xt-remixed,1684-9.html

Looks like the ATI does good without AA, but when you turn it on the ATI drops like a rock, whereas the 8600gt holds good. Looks like I may be steering towards Nvidia, especially since it seems to do better with AA and OpenGL, plus, I am familiar with Nvidia.

So, my next question is how does the 9500gt and 8600gt compare? They are roughly the same price, but you can find more 8600gt's with bigger mir's or free shipping. What do you think of these 2 cards?

I'm perplexed. The link you posted shows the 2600xt outperforming the 8600gt, in some cases by over 30%! Turn of AA, and yes, the 8600gt pulls ahead, but neither is playable. And it looks llike neither card can play the game well at your LCD's native resolution.

I'd think the 9500gt has a slight edge over the 8600gt in overall performance. Google and see.

BTW, Newegg has a 4670 for $57 + shipping, AR.

 

[brawleyman]

Is it that Gigabyte one? I saw that and I would like to get it, but again, I would hate to spend $80 to get a graphics card for just a few games, even if it does have a mir. Maybe when I get home I will check out craigslist and see what they have. I do believe that the 4670 would be the best for me, I will just have to wait until there is a better deal or something.

By the way, when I adjust the graphics resolution, the highest I can set is 1280x1024 in the game. I usually end up going down a notch to 1024x768 so that the picture is less distorted and have AA turned on all the way to make it look smoother. But, then I have to turn down the shaders and/or some details for the world.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: brawleyman
Is it that Gigabyte one? I saw that and I would like to get it, but again, I would hate to spend $80 to get a graphics card for just a few games, even if it does have a mir. Maybe when I get home I will check out craigslist and see what they have. I do believe that the 4670 would be the best for me, I will just have to wait until there is a better deal or something.

By the way, when I adjust the graphics resolution, the highest I can set is 1280x1024 in the game. I usually end up going down a notch to 1024x768 so that the picture is less distorted and have AA turned on all the way to make it look smoother. But, then I have to turn down the shaders and/or some details for the world.

Yeah, the Gigabyte one.

Maybe you could find a 7900 GTO/GTX for cheap. Significantly faster than a 8600gt.

 

[Spoelie]

The 4670 is DOUBLE the speed of a 9500GT, which itself is SLIGHTLY faster than a 8600GT/2600XT

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405&p=7 (purple = 4670, gray = 9500GT)
and
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405&p=9
and from the conclusion:
The 4670 doesn't change the game enough to say that spending more money isn't worth it, but the 4670 does lead at its price point and is good enough for anyone with a 1280x1024 monitor to have a good experience. We even see some advantages that would allow us to enable 4xAA at these low resolutions and enjoy playable performance. This card isn't going to change the world, but it fits a niche. Throw in the lower power requirements and smaller form factor and you have a great card for moderate gaming.

Unlike the 9500 GT, this card isn't an epic fail at its price point. We would still like more (we always do), but what we've got isn't bad. This is hardware based on a new architecture (meaning it has all the latest features and bug fixes like working AA hardware), unlike NVIDIA's competitive offerings. We can play most of the games we tested at 1280x1024 (a very cheap very widely used panel size) with high quality settings and some of them do well with 4xAA enabled as well.

btw try GRID as a race game for a change...

 

[rogue1979]

Newegg has a Sapphire HD 3850 512MB for $69.99 with free shipping. $15 mail-in rebate.

$54.99 is a great deal, it will have performance close to the HD 4670.

 

[brawleyman]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: brawleyman
Is it that Gigabyte one? I saw that and I would like to get it, but again, I would hate to spend $80 to get a graphics card for just a few games, even if it does have a mir. Maybe when I get home I will check out craigslist and see what they have. I do believe that the 4670 would be the best for me, I will just have to wait until there is a better deal or something.

By the way, when I adjust the graphics resolution, the highest I can set is 1280x1024 in the game. I usually end up going down a notch to 1024x768 so that the picture is less distorted and have AA turned on all the way to make it look smoother. But, then I have to turn down the shaders and/or some details for the world.

Yeah, the Gigabyte one.

Maybe you could find a 7900 GTO/GTX for cheap. Significantly faster than a 8600gt.

That would be nice, but I think that would require a much beefier power supply than what is in my computer right now, 305w. I just want something that will work for me for now. I plan on upgrading to a new computer some time after the new AMD Phenom II's come out.

Spoelie: The NFS games are all I play for right now. I did try the Grid demo and I really liked it, but I am the type that waits until the game is a little older and much cheaper to get. I got NFS Carbon and Most Wanted for $5 each at a local gaming store. For me, the graphics and gameplay is great and I have a lot of fun playing them. Maybe, when stuff gets a little cheaper and I am ready to upgrade to a new computer, there will be a faster budget card like the 4670 and I will get GRID then and enjoy it.

I would like to know how much faster a 2600XT would be than my 7600GS. Like I mentioned before, it seemed like the ATI favored NFS over Nvidia, except for when AA was on, but I want to know the experience from someone that has actually played it with that card and see what would be the best for my needs. Nothing fancy, just something that allows me to keep my high(er) resolution and keep all the details turned all the way up with full shading. Other than NFS, I also play Star Wars Battlegrounds. Kind of tells you were I am with games and stuff. =)

 

[brawleyman]

Originally posted by: rogue1979
Newegg has a Sapphire HD 3850 512MB for $69.99 with free shipping. $15 mail-in rebate.

$54.99 is a great deal, it will have performance close to the HD 4670.

That won't work for me. I would need a much bigger PSU than what I have now. I think that the perfect combo would be a 4670 for $50, free shipping...no mir. Maybe even $60, just no mir's. I guess I will need to check craigslist tonight and see what I can find. Weird thing is, I can access this website and post and newegg, but I cannot access craigslist, ebay, or even wal-mart because they block them here at work...go figure.

 

[rogue1979]

If it is a quality 305 watt, the 55nm HD 3850 should work fine. If it's a cheapo, then even the 4670 or the 7600GS you've been using is on borrowed time.

 

[brawleyman]

Originally posted by: rogue1979
If it is a quality 305 watt, the 55nm HD 3850 should work fine. If it's a cheapo, then even the 4670 or the 7600GS you've been using is on borrowed time.

From what I have heard, the 305watt PSU in the Dells are pretty good. They have a 12v rail with 22 amps. Looks like others saw that deal...it is now sold out. I would still like to stick with something that doesn't need a separate power supply. I will check craigslist and such tonight when I get home and see what I find. Thanks.

 

[brawleyman]

Okay, Newegg has a sale on the HIS HD 4650 DDR2, $49.99 free shipping. Is it worth my while to buy it? How much better than the 7600GS will it be? Again, I play mostly NFS or other racing games. Big difference in playability?

Thanks

 

[AstroManLuca]

Right now NewEgg has a Sapphire HD3850, $56 + shipping, OPEN BOX though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16814102715R

Definitely better than the 4650. I have a 3850 and it owns face at those games.

But I guess the 4650 isn't THAT bad, it's just not that great either. Still a better option than a 9500GT or any HD2xxx-series card.

 

[brawleyman]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Right now NewEgg has a Sapphire HD3850, $56 + shipping, OPEN BOX though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16814102715R

Definitely better than the 4650. I have a 3850 and it owns face at those games.

But I guess the 4650 isn't THAT bad, it's just not that great either. Still a better option than a 9500GT or any HD2xxx-series card.

I am not a fan of open box stuff. I also want to make sure that my power supply doesn't overload with a large graphics card. This card is to suit me for a while until I upgrade to a whole new computer in a year or so. Right now, I am just looking for something that will get me better framerates and allow me to keep the resolution and eye candy turned all the way up for those older games.

I was just wondering if there is anybody that has a 4650 that can relate some experiences and compare to older cards. Thanks!

 

[Arkaign]

Cards to totally and completely avoid at this point in time (performance is bad, even for older popular titles, and price makes them totally unbuyable)

All ATI of 2000 series and below
All Nvidia of 7000 series and below

Ideal :

ATI 3800 series or higher, or 4600 series or higher
Nvidia 8800 series, or 9600 series or higher

The 4650 is dramatically, hugely faster than the 2600XT.
The 9500GT is unfortunately very bleh, and itself compares somewhat poorly to even very old stuff like 7900.