Grammer Question

[Caveman]

Additional comma in sentence 2... Which sentence is more correct?

This memo is a record of the design, test and mission events done under the X program for calendar year 2006.

This memo is a record of the design, test, and mission events done under the X program for calendar year 2006.

I'm in my mid 30's and was always taught growing up that sentence 2 is "correct" English. My wife, who is 8 years younger said that English teachers are now teaching that the comma after "test" is unnecessary, and that sentence 1 is considered better form.

 

[leftyman]

no,

 

[Steve]

I was taught not to put that last comma before 'and.' Sometimes I like doing it anyway, but I voted no.

 

[Pugnax]

"Grammar"
And yes it is optional, however, I prefer a comma before 'and' if the objects are distinctly separate. If the objects are somehow linked together then you could avoid the comma usage.
In your example, I'd pick the second choice.

 

[clamum]

I learned in school use the comma before "and". I still do, and think it sounds better.

 

[Zoblefu]

I mis clicked and voted yes... meant to say no

When I learned it, I learned that it was not required but that it does make the sentance flow better.

Your poll asks if it's correct or not, and it's fine to not have a comma. Your post says which is "more correct" and in that case I would choose the one with the extra comma. (Both are grammattically correct, but if I had to pick which was "more" correct... extra comma)

 

[iroast]

No

 

[Mo0o]

grammar

 

[rivan]

The two proofreaders over the cube wall confirm my thinking that it should NOT be there.

 

[homercles337]

Yes, unless youre British.

edit: its also grammatically incorrect to leave it out when distinguishing groups.

 

[f1sh3r]

if its a list. definitely. it most certainly helps to break up the items. this is especially important when a list item may include the word 'and'.

i know this isnt the *best* example, but you get the point.

i enjoy scotch, jäger and sprite, and rum and coke.
i enjoy scotch, jäger and sprite and rum and coke.

edit: cant spell my alcohol brands.

 

[markgm]

Yes, the same for 'or' as well.

I wish I won the lottery, had rich parents, or found a million dollars in a suitcase.

It makes things easier to read, and it can act like parenthesis for keeping things together like the drink post above.

In my example above, without the comma it could mean that I wish I won the lottery and either had rich parents or found money (it seems I just got lazy and forgot an 'and') whereas the comma lets you know that I wished for either of the three options.

 

[dullard]

Printers, editors, and proofreaders want it out to save room and costs. The comma isn't needed for simple situations. But other than that, put the comma in! If you have even a mildly complex sentence, that comma is absolutely essential. Do NOT get in the habbit of bending to the financial pressure of printers and editors.

Simple example:

A) The flags' colors are black and red, green and purple and white and red.

vs

B) The flags' colors are black and red, green and purple, and white and red.

Sentence A is a damn ugly sentence. Also sentence A is very easy to misinterpret. For example, how many flags are there in sentence A? What are the colors of flag #2 in sentence A. Without the comma, I bet a lot of people who scan quickly would get those two questions wrong. With sentence B those questions are very clear and no one would ever answer them wrong.

Now lets make it one step more complex (as complex as possible without being a run-on sentence).

C) The kids' lunchboxes contain a sandwich; meatloaf, chips and pop and a granola bar.

D) The kids' lunchboxes contain a sandwich; meatloaf, chips, and pop; and a granola bar.

Again sentence C is gramatically correct if you follow the no comma rule. But damn, I can't understand what sentence C is trying to say and I typed it. But sentence D is simple and clear. All I did was use the final comma.

 

[dullard]

Doh! F1sh3r beat me to my point. I should have read the thread first.

 

[allisolm]

For your sentence either way is okay in American English.


The best explanation I can find is ''When giving a short and simple list of things in a sentence, the last comma (right before the conjunction?usually and or or) is optional, but it is never wrong. If the items in the list are longer and more complicated, you should always place a final comma before the conjunction."


An example of a longer and more complicated list would be if you changed the sentence to "This memo is a record of the design from plan A, tests relating to design, and mission events done under the X program for calendar year 2006." In this case the comma would be necessary.

 

[Aikouka]

No, the comma isn't required, but you can use it. It's "optional." Also, to go based on what someone else said, if you're using phrases in your list, you can use semi-colons instead.

 

[markgm]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
No, the comma isn't required, but you can use it. It's "optional." Also, to go based on what someone else said, if you're using phrases in your list, you can use semi-colons instead.

I would use colons and semi-colons for sub-lists, but I don't know if I'm right or not.

For lunch I had a sandwich: bread, cheese, ham, and onions; a drink: water, fruit flavor, and sugar; and dessert: ice cream, cherries, and whipped cream.

 

[NiteWulf]

Serial comma FTW!

Keep it alive!

 

[mundane]

?Today, I learned, the comma, this a
comma (,) a period, with a tail, Miss Kinnian, says
its important, because, it makes writing, better,
she said, somebody, could lose, a lot of money, if
a comma, isnt, in the, right place, I dont have,
any money, and I dont see, how a comma, keeps
you, from losing it.
But she says, everybody, uses commas, so Ill use,
Them too.?

 

[2Xtreme21]

John lived on 1st street; Alan, on 2nd; Bob, on 3rd.

As for the answer to your question, I'd always put it in no matter how short the list. As stated previously, it's never wrong.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: dullard
Printers, editors, and proofreaders want it out to save room and costs. The comma isn't needed for simple situations. But other than that, put the comma in! If you have even a mildly complex sentence, that comma is absolutely essential. Do NOT get in the habbit of bending to the financial pressure of printers and editors.

Simple example:

A) The flags' colors are black and red, green and purple and white and red.

vs

B) The flags' colors are black and red, green and purple, and white and red.

Sentence A is a damn ugly sentence. Also sentence A is very easy to misinterpret. For example, how many flags are there in sentence A? What are the colors of flag #2 in sentence A. Without the comma, I bet a lot of people who scan quickly would get those two questions wrong. With sentence B those questions are very clear and no one would ever answer them wrong.

Now lets make it one step more complex (as complex as possible without being a run-on sentence).

C) The kids' lunchboxes contain a sandwich; meatloaf, chips and pop and a granola bar.

D) The kids' lunchboxes contain a sandwich; meatloaf, chips, and pop; and a granola bar.

Again sentence C is gramatically correct if you follow the no comma rule. But damn, I can't understand what sentence C is trying to say and I typed it. But sentence D is simple and clear. All I did was use the final comma.

Actually, you used a bunch of semi-colons.

The final comma is archaic, according to proper grammar rules, but I like to use it anyway.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Actually, you used a bunch of semi-colons.

The final comma is archaic, according to proper grammar rules, but I like to use it anyway.

Semi-colon or comma, both use the same rules.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: markgm
I would use colons and semi-colons for sub-lists, but I don't know if I'm right or not.

For lunch I had a sandwich: bread, cheese, ham, and onions; a drink: water, fruit flavor, and sugar; and dessert: ice cream, cherries, and whipped cream.

That's one of the best ways I've seen to use them. I've also seen and heard of even phrases being best separated by semi-colons for extra clarity.

 

[thirtythree]

A comma isn't required, but I prefer to use one.