GPU trade off.

[Davidh373]

Ok, so I have this friend in the market for a new GPU. He is currently running a 5770 on a Eyefinity setup. He says the only things he notices chug are the games that have a very large view scale (Ex. ARMA II). I have been trying to tell him all night that the 6870 is the best value right now, but I'm beginning to wonder if the additional RAM on the 2GB 6950 would make any difference, or if it's the speed of the GPU.

His eyefinity resolution is 3840 x 1024 (3 x [1280 x 1024]). He likes to play on relatively high settings. Total budget is around $300, but I would like to point out that the 6950 is kind of at the point of diminishing returns. On most games it shows no more than a 5 fps increase...

 

[mnewsham]

the extra vRAM alone should help with the resolution...

 

[fffblackmage]

3840*1024 is about equal to 2560*1600 in terms of number of pixels (~4 million). I would have also thought more vram would help, but benchmarks don't show that. The 6950 2GB just don't pull far enough ahead in benchmarks to indicate the extra vram is giving the 6950 2GB an edge over the 1GB version.

There is one case where the 2GB vram did help, and that was in STALKER:COP.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4137/...-6950-1gb-xfxs-radeon-hd-6870-black-edition/5

 

[RaistlinZ]

Sounds like he just needs more raw horsepower. I'd expect a 5770 to choke at that resolution with high settings. With his budget I'd go with a 6950 2GB and BIOS flash it.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Sounds like he just needs more raw horsepower. I'd expect a 5770 to choke at that resolution with high settings. With his budget I'd go with a 6950 2GB and BIOS flash it.

this

flash that little sucker to a 6970!

google: 6950 flash, and you'll get all kinds of returns on successful flashing to a 6970

 

[mfenn]

this

flash that little sucker to a 6970!

google: 6950 flash, and you'll get all kinds of returns on successful flashing to a 6970

:thumbsup: Newegg has a Powercolor 6950 2GB for $230 AR AP right now. It's still a good price for the card even if it doesn't unlock (unlike Phenom II X2's).

 

[Davidh373]

So you guys are sure? The 5770 has been supporting that res for a long time. He wouldn't be getting it to support the resolution, but more to get the 2GB VRAM (edit: To deal with lod), which if you guys aren't saying helps much, isn't worth the extra.

 

[mfenn]

So you guys are sure? The 5770 has been supporting that res for a long time. He wouldn't be getting it to support the resolution, but more to get the 2GB VRAM (edit: To deal with lod), which if you guys aren't saying helps much, isn't worth the extra.

Even 1920x1200 is too much for a 5770 IMHO. Unless your friend is very tolerant of low framerates and/or reduced detail, it's time to move on.

 

[fffblackmage]

Ok, so I have this friend in the market for a new GPU. He is currently running a 5770 on a Eyefinity setup

Wow... I didn't think anyone would run an eyefinity setup with just a single 5770... so I totally misread and thought you said 5770 crossfire....

 

[yottabit]

So you guys are sure? The 5770 has been supporting that res for a long time. He wouldn't be getting it to support the resolution, but more to get the 2GB VRAM (edit: To deal with lod), which if you guys aren't saying helps much, isn't worth the extra.

It's the 128 bit memory bus among other things that is killing the 5770 at those resolutions. A better card would definitely help. I would think it would definitely be a significant improvement, a 6950 (even the one gig) is like twice the performance of a 5770

 

[Davidh373]

It's the 128 bit memory bus among other things that is killing the 5770 at those resolutions. A better card would definitely help. I would think it would definitely be a significant improvement, a 6950 (even the one gig) is like twice the performance of a 5770

You know that for real? He says he enjoys his experience just fine. He is noticing a little chug in open area games like ARMA II, thus, it is time for an upgrade.

OK, this is what I need to know. I was considering him getting the 6870 and saving $60-$70 off the 6950 (as previously mentioned). It provides a 40%-45% increase in benchmarks at 2560 x 1600, where the 6950 provides just above that at a 50% increase. These are all off anandtech.

My specific question was, will the extra 1GB (in the 2GB vid card) assist him with long LOD. He is at very least getting a 6870, BUT the reason he would be getting the 6950 over the 6870 would be specifically for 2GB VRAM, not the faster GPU. He says his current card plays smoothly enough at that resolution. He says so, not me, but hey, I've gotta believe him... The 6870 would be a significant enough upgrade, but my original question remains unanswered.

Will extra RAM be better for LOD or not? Will the 1GB on the 6870 choke on the LOD just like the 5770 is now? Thanks

 

[yottabit]

You know that for real? He says he enjoys his experience just fine. He is noticing a little chug in open area games like ARMA II, thus, it is time for an upgrade.

OK, this is what I need to know. I was considering him getting the 6870 and saving $60-$70 off the 6950 (as previously mentioned). It provides a 40%-45% increase in benchmarks at 2560 x 1600, where the 6950 provides just above that at a 50% increase. These are all off anandtech.

My specific question was, will the extra 1GB (in the 2GB vid card) assist him with long LOD. He is at very least getting a 6870, BUT the reason he would be getting the 6950 over the 6870 would be specifically for 2GB VRAM, not the faster GPU. He says his current card plays smoothly enough at that resolution. He says so, not me, but hey, I've gotta believe him... The 6870 would be a significant enough upgrade, but my original question remains unanswered.

Will extra RAM be better for LOD or not? Will the 1GB on the 6870 choke on the LOD just like the 5770 is now? Thanks

I honestly don't think 2GB will make a difference in today's games but down the line in future games it could. Sadly I don't know of a way to track GPU VRAM utilization. But I have to imagine it's the lack of shader power and/or memory bandwith that's causing it.

I know my 5770 can do everything I want at 1440x900, basically at 1680x1050, does ok on 1080p and chugs at anything higher than that. It's not a fault of the VRAM, it's just a lack of horsepower. Some cards have too much RAM for their speed, like those 1 GB GT210 cards. The 5770 isn't such an extreme case, but I think going to a 5850/6870/or even 6950 1GB should be a huge difference. 5770s die off HARD after 1080p

This is assuming his CPU or system ram is not the bottleneck. You may want to have him play at lower video settings and see if the chugging goes away. If it doesn't then the bottleneck is most likely elsewhere in the system.

 

[Davidh373]

This is assuming his CPU or system ram is not the bottleneck. You may want to have him play at lower video settings and see if the chugging goes away. If it doesn't then the bottleneck is most likely elsewhere in the system.

i7 920, 6GB RAM, 150GB Velociraptor, 4TB storage split between 2 x 1TB Caviar Blacks and a 2TB Caviar Green. Thank you though. You've helped a lot!

 

[mfenn]

You know that for real? He says he enjoys his experience just fine. He is noticing a little chug in open area games like ARMA II, thus, it is time for an upgrade.

OK, this is what I need to know. I was considering him getting the 6870 and saving $60-$70 off the 6950 (as previously mentioned). It provides a 40%-45% increase in benchmarks at 2560 x 1600, where the 6950 provides just above that at a 50% increase. These are all off anandtech.

My specific question was, will the extra 1GB (in the 2GB vid card) assist him with long LOD. He is at very least getting a 6870, BUT the reason he would be getting the 6950 over the 6870 would be specifically for 2GB VRAM, not the faster GPU. He says his current card plays smoothly enough at that resolution. He says so, not me, but hey, I've gotta believe him... The 6870 would be a significant enough upgrade, but my original question remains unanswered.

Will extra RAM be better for LOD or not? Will the 1GB on the 6870 choke on the LOD just like the 5770 is now? Thanks

The extra polygons from an open world type game do cause more VRAM to be used, but not by a huge amount. What really chews up VRAM are (a) resolution, and (b) anti-aliasing.

As a side note, your friend must be REALLY tolerant of low FPS to be happy with a 5770 in ARMA II.

 

[Davidh373]

As a side note, your friend must be REALLY tolerant of low FPS to be happy with a 5770 in ARMA II.

likely, but he says it's smooth. He also went through a period where he was installing different versions of the Catalyst drivers to get the best results, so it's possible he just found his comfort zone. ARMA II though is part of the reason for the upgrade, so he can't be too tolerant of the fps he's getting in that game.

 

[mfenn]

likely, but he says it's smooth. He also went through a period where he was installing different versions of the Catalyst drivers to get the best results, so it's possible he just found his comfort zone. ARMA II though is part of the reason for the upgrade, so he can't be too tolerant of the fps he's getting in that game.

True, that. According to the benchmarks that I've looked at, he should only be seeing framerates in the teens on all high even at 1280x1024, much less 3 times that.

 

[Davidh373]

True, that. According to the benchmarks that I've looked at, he should only be seeing framerates in the teens on all high even at 1280x1024, much less 3 times that.

I think he said back 3 or so months ago he gets around 20-25, but he also staggers settings at medium and high in that game as well as turns the viewscale down a good bit.

 

[Davidh373]

I asked my friend to run the benchmark on his card. Benchmark 1 on generic "very high" quality setting yield a whopping 5fps (lol). The settings he had originally yielded a framerate of 26fps. I told him to put the settings where he would want them to be if he were to have his new card. These outputted 13fps. I spotted a few 6870 benchmarks for this game at 2560 x 1600 and they showed the 6870 is exactly double the performance of the 5770. So logically the 6870 SHOULD output 26fps on the settings he wants.

While there are no benchmarks displaying 6950 performance, assuming it grants the 2-5 fps it does over the 6870, it would lay somewhere around 28-32fps. So, after taking your advice and these results into consideration, he has decided to go with the 6950, keeping the BIOS default for the time being, then flashing the 6970 BIOS later when it starts to chug.

 

[mfenn]

I asked my friend to run the benchmark on his card. Benchmark 1 on generic "very high" quality setting yield a whopping 5fps (lol). The settings he had originally yielded a framerate of 26fps. I told him to put the settings where he would want them to be if he were to have his new card. These outputted 13fps. I spotted a few 6870 benchmarks for this game at 2560 x 1600 and they showed the 6870 is exactly double the performance of the 5770. So logically the 6870 SHOULD output 26fps on the settings he wants.

While there are no benchmarks displaying 6950 performance, assuming it grants the 2-5 fps it does over the 6870, it would lay somewhere around 28-32fps. So, after taking your advice and these results into consideration, he has decided to go with the 6950, keeping the BIOS default for the time being, then flashing the 6970 BIOS later when it starts to chug.

:thumbsup: Sounds good. If he hasn't already bought it, I'd recommend this $240 AR Powercolor.