GPU Clocks and Voltages jumping to max when Browsing Internet

[Deanodarlo]

For a long time now, I've been annoyed by the fact simply scrolling a webpage in a browser is causing GPU clocks to spike to maximum values, meaning constant voltage spikes, increased energy usage and temps. I'm currently running a Win 7 64bit and a MSI HAWK 6870.

This is not flash acceleration, but simply webpage scrolling even a simple forum page. It doesn't even go to UVD mid clocks, which wouldn't be as bad, but jumps straight to max 3D.

A quick Google search turns up a lot of examples, and here are a few affecting ATI and nVidia:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2119709
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1775755&start=1320
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=155885&enterthread=y
http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/803525
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59830
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18276242
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18219493
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1223925
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=185531
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?268574-Firefox-4-and-GPU-utilization
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18219933
http://boardreader.com/thread/P150HM_W_6970_jittery_GPU_clocks_b0f41Xd4ez.html
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33971978

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=firefox+gpu+clocks
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=browser+gpu+clocks

It seems to be a bug in how browsers interact with GPUs. This thread is for investigating the issue.

In the past, IE8 suffered from the problem but in IE9 it seems to be fixed. I see some minor spikes now and again, but I think that's flash acceleration.

Latest Firefox still suffers from this rather annoying problem, with huge long spikes at max clocks and voltages. It can increase idle GPU temps by 7C!

To test, just fire up GPU-Z or another monitoring app and scroll these forum pages, surf the web for a while (obviously not flash video/youtube however).

Here are my results - exact same webpages visited in each browser. My usual idle temp on my 6870 is 36C.

First up problematic Firefox:

IE8 had a similar problem, but it seems to be better, almost cured, in IE9:

Notice minimal GPU load in both browsers, yet max core speed spikes appear when scrolling and rendering webpages for long periods in Firefox, dramatically increasing GPU temps. Now that can't be very power efficient or correct usage?

 

[(sic)Klown12]

Browsers now have hardware acceleration for general 2D rendering. You can disable hardware acceleration for whatever browser you're using, and it should help keep the clock/voltage jumping to a minimum.

 

[Deanodarlo]

I've tried that, disabling hardware acceleration, but it still does it in Firefox. I'll try and enter the config and manually disable Direct2D and see if that helps.

As I said, IE9 uses hardware acceleration and it appears to have fixed the scrolling issue that was there in IE8 and other browsers.

I'll try and do more testing soon.

 

[Deanodarlo]

No one else have this issue?

I'll try and do some more testing today and see if I can refine the exact details, then I guess it's off to Bugzilla if IE9 has been fixed. I bet I get told it's a driver problem!

 

[Deanodarlo]

OK, I've searched Bugzilla and it has been reported, but no one is working on it.

It happens because Firefox is scrolling at unlimited FPS using Direct2D - instead of limiting itself to a lower value:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647945
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=575342

So basically it's burning power for scrolling webpages for no good reason. Direct2D needs to be limited as it appears to have been in IE9.

 

[blackened23]

Make sure power throttling is enabled in CCC. In AMD overdrive, for the power section - ensure that it is set to "0%" and not anything higher. In short, the higher this setting is the less the card throttles down during small workloads.

Keep in mind also that down throttling depends entirely on the current GPU temperature, what I observed with the 6970 is that it generally goes to 250 when lower than 40C --
the fan control in CCC is pretty hideous in that it waits until the GPU temperature is too high before raising fan speed. Try setting a manual fan speed, that should help keep
idle temps below 40C. MSI Afterburner is another option, you can customize a fan preset that works better than the default in CCC. Yes, the AMD reference fan is hideously loud. I hate it.

AMD like Nvidia cards generally have 3 preset voltage/GPU clock settings depending on GPU load. On my crossfire box, mine is usually clocked at 250 GPU clock while browsing the web.

Also: what catalyst release are you running?

 

[Deanodarlo]

Thanks for the info blackened. I'm running the latest Cat 11.9, 6870, Win 7 64bit. Everything set to default.

I'm not sure if disabling hardware acceleration in Firefox options actually disables Direct2D (Win 7 Vista only) as I still get the problem with it disabled in Firefox. Direct2D can be disabled in about:config from the address bar, so I'll have to give that a try next.

Now, I have been digging around for more info. Bugzilla link above says it's Firefox rendering too quickly without limits using Direct2D.

The Firefox discussion below however has some great detail, and says for nVidia it's a bug in the drivers that is or is about to be fixed:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1775755&start=1275

his is a quote from ManuelG, a Nvidia's developer:

"BTW, I don't need any more information on the P-State changes at this point as I've already passed along the following complaints from end users and they have already taken action on this:

1) Fan spinning up and down as a result of the constant P-State changes
2) Basic tasks causing spikes in GPU clock and voltages such as simple scrolling of the page
3) Graphics card running slightly higher temperature as a result of clocking up and down more frequently"

So will ATI release a fix? Last time I posted there about a year ago, I got told it was normal for the clocks to do that.

I just want to get to the bottom of this, it's been going on now for over a year!

 

[Deanodarlo]

Updated opening post with pictures taken from IE9 and Firefox whilst surfing the same web pages and scrolling.

Notice the big difference and temps of the GPU?

Also IE9 doesn't ramp the clocks up to max values, but uses lower power states (something like 775 on the core of my MSI HAWK 6870, which has a max clock of 930).

So, is this a Firefox problem or driver problem? nVidia admitted a driver problem above, but with IE9 working ok I'm confused.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Similar problem reported on AMD forums (added to the list):

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=155885&enterthread=y

 

[Deanodarlo]

There is a posted bug report on Bugzilla:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698301

 

[tviceman]

Actually I recently just switched from using firefox to Chrome, and it's increased the battery life in my laptop when internet browsing. So all of what the OP is saying makes perfect sense - chrome is not spiking my GPU clocks but firefox would.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Here is a temporary solution until this gets fixed:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2340977

Creating a profile and switching between to force the card to stay at low clocks whilst surfing with Firefox.

I find this so annoying - fan going up and down whilst surfing, how does stuff like this get past testing?

 

[lavaheadache]

I've noticed this with my 480 and 580 too. I'm not the slightest bit bothered as it causes no problems for me. Do my fans spin 5 rpm faster due to it? Don't know, don't care. If my fans were maxing out and temp skyrocketing that would be a different story.

If by using the gpu to accellerate apps and I have a more enjoyable internet experience then so be it. I paid good money for my hardware and don't mind having it be used to better my user experience.

Edit.... I missed the part that stated your gpu was maxing out and getting loud. That sucks. This should be addressed.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Someone else with the same issue, but not realizing exactly the cause. They should do a quick search on Google!

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=155959&enterthread=y

I bet they are running Firefox. Might have to try 11.7 though, they seem to think it keeps temps lower.

 

[Soulkeeper]

AMD provides a api for modifying the performance level clocks/voltages, and adjusting/monitoring various settings.

I wrote a program using it For linux It works well cept the "force high/low" ability does not function in their api. Although i've only tested it on one video card, havn't tried APUs or anything fancy.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Thanks Soulkeeper, sounds like one solution.

For now I've just decided to go back to 3.6.24, as it's without hardware acceleration and I get to keep my addons.

Even in Firefox version 8, when you disable hardware acceleration (HWA) scrolling still ramps up clock speeds to max and increases temps in comparision to IE9 and Chrome, so I'm done with these newer Firefox versions.

It's either driver related or a problem with how Firefox scrolls in Windows Aero, since HWA disabled makes no difference when it should force it to act like 3.6.24 - use CPU only.

 

[Zanovar]

I also have this annoying problem,currently using firefox portable 6.0.2 as all later releases cause my card to spike to max clocks when scrolling web pages eve with hardware acceleration off.

 

[Termie]

I switched to IE9 specifically because of this. Not only did Firefox spike more, but it also caused my clocks to lock at 3D levels even when not doing anything.

 

[mingsoup]

Firefox does this to me. Chrome does not. I so wish I could fix this, I'd like to use firefox.

 

[DirkGently1]

Oh noes, another non-problem to worry about. It's a wonder anybody can sleep at night with all these issues that don't exist.

I suggest you throw your PC in the bin. Clearly there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Arkadrel]

Deanodarlo

its your browser, turn off all the hardware acceleration you can, and your GPU wont go up when your browsing anymore (it ll be the CPU that gets taxed instead).

Firefox does this to me. Chrome does not.

^ one good reason to use Chrome.

 

[DirkGently1]

Great idea. Turn off anything that may be considered a useful advance in the world of technology. We don't need no stinking Hardware acceleration! Things were better when everything got bogged down because of high CPU utilisation.

While we're at it, get shot of that Sandybridge. A Pentium 1 will consume less power! You should also replace that 30" behemoth sitting on your desk. A 15" monitor will take up far less room! Superfetch using your RAM? Bah, remove it immediately. That'll show 'em!

Take out your GPU! Then your Browser can't use it. Easiest fix of all.

 

[redzo]

I'm also affected by this. Today, this bug is still unsolved and it's pretty old. To my understanding, nvidia issued a driver update that solved this on Firefox also. There was no change from mozilla. It got fixed with a driver update in the nvidia camp. So I think that it is safe to say that this is a AMD driver issue.

Yes, it can be avoided by enforcing the GPU to run at its lowest p-state all the time, but, as DirkGently1 suggested, it is an idiotic hack just as turning off the browser hardware acceleration. You can't even consider it as a fix.

Meanwhile in the AMD camp, AMD FF users like me should wait a little longer, just until their GPUs turn obsolete and are backed away from the Catalyst support cycle.

 

[MrK6]

^ one good reason to use Chrome.

Amen. Using Chrome here as well and I just checked. Unless I load up some flash video, it stays at idle.

 

[Deanodarlo]

As redzo says, still an issue. We're onto Firefox 10 and Catalyst 12, so I've given up hope this will be fixed.

At the moment, I'm using IE9 as my main browser where hardware acceleration is working normally and Firefox only when I need the addons.

Chrome I can't live with - the lack of simple customization options such as being able to move and add buttons around the titlebar drives me mad. It's Googles way or the highway when it comes to how it works and the layout is too basic and annoying. Probably what their marketing team wants though, to maximize how general people search and use the web to encourage constant searching and using their services. Problem is IE9 has followed suit and are starting to copy Chrome in this regard (hard-coded button positioning).

For me, unmovable buttons on the far right hand side and no simple drop-down bookmarks button, which has been a part of browsers since their invention, got it off to the wrong start. I see many suggestions for improvement, but they never seem to get implimented. Also lacks the same addon range as Firefox, making it not much different to IE9 (which I also find annoying) for me to bother changing to.

Chrome is a great browser if you just want something simple that works and updates hassle free, but it's not that different to IE9 whilst Firefox knock functionality out of the park giving so much power to the user. All this stuff is subjective and personal opinion of course.

Nice to hear Chrome also has Hardware Acceleration working normally however.