Government Shutdown over DREAM?

[nixium]

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/358718-shutdown-threat-growing-over-immigration-fight

It looks like the latest election results have emboldened democrats to do some obstructionism of their own. I think this might backfire though.. people are generally supportive of dreamers, but forcing a shutdown (and hurting citizens, preventing them from getting government services) to support foreign born kids - illegal, despite it not being their fault - seems like a bad idea. Especially pushing for a "clean dream" act which really does nothing to solve any underlying problems. Thoughts?

 

[Moonbeam]

Personally I doubt this has much to do with being emboldened by the election.

 

[alien42]

this wouldn't even be an issue were it not for trump making it one.

 

[J.Wilkins]

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/358718-shutdown-threat-growing-over-immigration-fight

It looks like the latest election results have emboldened democrats to do some obstructionism of their own. I think this might backfire though.. people are generally supportive of dreamers, but forcing a shutdown (and hurting citizens, preventing them from getting government services) to support foreign born kids - illegal, despite it not being their fault - seems like a bad idea. Especially pushing for a "clean dream" act which really does nothing to solve any underlying problems. Thoughts?

No, people are generally supportive of good ideas and will have no problem fighting for them.

People are generally empathetic creatures that understand that Göbbles tactics are wrong, where you pit one group against the population to make them think that it's the root of their problems (like the Nazis did with the Jews) and people in general are much, much smarter than you are.

As opposed to what many think, I still have some faith in the general US populace and don't think they will become Nazis over these playground tactics of fucking over "not quite white enough for us" bullshit.

 

[nixium]

No, people are generally supportive of good ideas and will have no problem fighting for them.

People are generally empathetic creatures that understand that Göbbles tactics are wrong, where you pit one group against the population to make them think that it's the root of their problems (like the Nazis did with the Jews) and people in general are much, much smarter than you are.

You're completely right, Trump will never be elected president!

As opposed to what many think, I still have some faith in the general US populace and don't think they will become Nazis over these playground tactics of fucking over "not quite white enough for us" bullshit.

I see. So the narrative is that if you don't support clean amnesty for illegal aliens, you're now a Nazi? It appears the bar for being labelled a Nazi is lower and lower these days, and Godwin's law has been forgotten entirely in these forums.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You're completely right, Trump will never be elected president!

So you are saying that Trump is in fact using Göbbels tactics and that his followers are Nazis? Well... alrighty then....

I see. So the narrative is that if you don't support clean amnesty for illegal aliens, you're now a Nazi? It appears the bar for being labelled a Nazi is lower and lower these days, and Godwin's law has been forgotten entirely in these forums.

No, My point would be that if you declare that there is a minority that is the problem with your society and holds people back then that is a Nazi tactic (Göbbels motto, to be precise) and I don't think that there are enough fucking retards that will fall for that.

You are apparently saying that there are a majority of retards that will fall for the Nazi tactics?

Am I reading you right?

 

[nixium]

this wouldn't even be an issue were it not for trump making it one.

True, but I'm glad he did it. It's not fair for the dreamers to be on some flimsy EAD work authorization, in effect second class citizens. It's also not fair for lawmakers to use that as a crutch to kick the can down the road and make it someone else's problem (while still using that as a campaign issue to win or to obstruct.)

Now they'll be forced to sit down and figure out a solution, one way or the other, and pay the price for said solution. That's what governance is supposed to be about.

 

[repoman0]

True, but I'm glad he did it. It's not fair for the dreamers to be on some flimsy EAD work authorization, in effect second class citizens. It's also not fair for lawmakers to use that as a crutch to kick the can down the road and make it someone else's problem (while still using that as a campaign issue to win or to obstruct.)

Now they'll be forced to sit down and figure out a solution, one way or the other, and pay the price for said solution. That's what governance is supposed to be about.

This is a respectable position, but you know as well as I that this is not why Trump did it.

 

[Moonbeam]

So you are saying that Trump is in fact using Göbbels tactics and that his followers are Nazis? Well... alrighty then....





No, My point would be that if you declare that there is a minority that is the problem with your society and holds people back then that is a Nazi tactic (Göbbels motto, to be precise) and I don't think that there are enough fucking retards that will fall for that.

You are apparently saying that there are a majority of retards that will fall for the Nazi tactics?

Am I reading you right?

Zieg Unheil to that!

 

[Thebobo]

Please I needs some time off.

 

[nixium]

So you are saying that Trump is in fact using Göbbels tactics and that his followers are Nazis? Well... alrighty then....





No, My point would be that if you declare that there is a minority that is the problem with your society and holds people back then that is a Nazi tactic (Göbbels motto, to be precise) and I don't think that there are enough fucking retards that will fall for that.

You are apparently saying that there are a majority of retards that will fall for the Nazi tactics?

Am I reading you right?

No I'm saying using shutdowns as a bargaining tactic to pass legislation is a bad idea, regardless of party affiliation, regardless of the legislation. The legislation just happens to be about non-citizens in this case, which makes it more controversial. Repubs tried a while back and got burned (sort of), and I'm speculating if Democrats will too. No references to Nazis at this point.

 

[woolfe9998]

No I'm saying using shutdowns as a bargaining tactic to pass legislation is a bad idea, regardless of party affiliation, regardless of the legislation. The legislation just happens to be about non-citizens in this case, which makes it more controversial. Repubs tried a while back and got burned (sort of), and I'm speculating if Democrats will too. No references to Nazis at this point.

Historically, that has been the case. However, in the current political climate, given Trump's and the GOP's terrible approval rating, and polls showing 80% support for DACA, I'm not so sure.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...t-additional-immigration-enforcement-n2386297

 

[Thump553]

The question we should be asking is why a government shutdown is even being considered as a tactic? The answer-Trump set a clear deadline for action. The GOP controls both houses, and most particularly controls which bills get committee time, hearings and put up for a vote. So far NOTHING has happened procedurally regarding implementing DREAM and it's highly doubtful the GOP will do anything without a sledgehammer swung at them.

I'm not looking forward to a shutdown, but it certainly appears necessary to get the GOP leadership out of their passive-aggressive blocking actions. It's time to force Congress to do what's right for once-or at least put it up for a vote on the record so we voters can take note.