Government Making Us Safer

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
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Yea, its getting ridiculous. The government is using any 'threat' as carde blanch to do whatever the hell it pleases no matter how much it costs.

I think the reason we are 'safer' today than before is that our EXISTING agencies woke the f up after 9/11 and started doing their jobs finally.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Yea, its getting ridiculous. The government is using any 'threat' as carde blanch to do whatever the hell it pleases no matter how much it costs.

I think the reason we are 'safer' today than before is that our EXISTING agencies woke the f up after 9/11 and started doing their jobs finally.
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With all due respects GTKeeper, I disagree. We have maybe partially plugged one hole in our air line security, but almost ever where else, we have done nothing.

While 911 was spectacular and large, its main target was the world trade center that only happened to be located in the USA.

By contrast, Europe had been targeted by terrorists since at least the early 1970's, with many many smaller and more numerous attacks. And that targeting was largely due to the sin's of a European colonial past. And with no past colonial sins by the US, the US was not targeted.

By over reacting to 911 and by trying to reoccupy various countries, the USA has transformed its self from being off the terrorist radar to being the largest item in their concerns. Right now, as the US bankrupts itself, terrorists are content to let the US stay the course, but we have done almost nothing to harden our defenses. Our ports are wide open, our borders are wide open, we have no tracking of aliens, high value targets are open to attack all over the country, and its almost an open invitation to strike.

And the GWB&co war on terror has actually increased the number of terrorists in an all offense and no defense manner.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Yea, its getting ridiculous. The government is using any 'threat' as carde blanch to do whatever the hell it pleases no matter how much it costs.

I think the reason we are 'safer' today than before is that our EXISTING agencies woke the f up after 9/11 and started doing their jobs finally.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With all due respects GTKeeper, I disagree. We have maybe partially plugged one hole in our air line security, but almost ever where else, we have done nothing.

While 911 was spectacular and large, its main target was the world trade center that only happened to be located in the USA.

By contrast, Europe had been targeted by terrorists since at least the early 1970's, with many many smaller and more numerous attacks. And that targeting was largely due to the sin's of a European colonial past. And with no past colonial sins by the US, the US was not targeted.

By over reacting to 911 and by trying to reoccupy various countries, the USA has transformed its self from being off the terrorist radar to being the largest item in their concerns. Right now, as the US bankrupts itself, terrorists are content to let the US stay the course, but we have done almost nothing to harden our defenses. Our ports are wide open, our borders are wide open, we have no tracking of aliens, high value targets are open to attack all over the country, and its almost an open invitation to strike.

And the GWB&co war on terror has actually increased the number of terrorists in an all offense and no defense manner.

Yeah, because before 2001 it would be difficult to construct a list of americans or american targets struck at by terrorist.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
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The US was on the terrorist radar long before 9/11

The scale and location was not there.

for some examples

World Trade Center Attack #1
Cole Bombing
The retaliation in San Diego after the Iranian airliner
Embassies bombings

The differnce were the scope and locations.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I think the reason we are 'safer' today than before
Safer now vs before is almost completely meaningless and near impossible to quantify. Gov pretends we are safer now than after 911 because of no attacks. If there is no attack tomorrow am I safer tomorrow than I am today? What if in 6 months still no attack, am I yet safer? It really means nothing.

I agree with most of LL's assessment. The closest thing to "are we safer" would be if an objective analysis was done on Sept 10 and then done now, it would include vulnerabilities to airlines (which are pathetically vulnerable, still, though less-so than pre 911) and elsewhere and attractiveness of striking (which by any account has gone up magnitudes since 911).

I would say that overall the country is less safe, but again, it's so hard to eve put meaning to that. There are defintiely more people who hate the US now than before 911, though.
 

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I think the reason we are 'safer' today than before
Safer now vs before is almost completely meaningless and near impossible to quantify. Gov pretends we are safer now than after 911 because of no attacks. If there is no attack tomorrow am I safer tomorrow than I am today? What if in 6 months still no attack, am I yet safer? It really means nothing.

I agree with most of LL's assessment. The closest thing to "are we safer" would be if an objective analysis was done on Sept 10 and then done now, it would include vulnerabilities to airlines (which are pathetically vulnerable, still, though less-so than pre 911) and elsewhere and attractiveness of striking (which by any account has gone up magnitudes since 911).

I would say that overall the country is less safe, but again, it's so hard to eve put meaning to that. There are defintiely more people who hate the US now than before 911, though.

My point is, that we dont need to spend 50 billion/year on the department of homeland security. Other agencies can do this job.