Got Us Another One

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Good article. I agree with damn near every word.

Then you and I agree on something.

:Q

It was bound to happen, Vic

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I've liked him since I read Thank You for Smoking about 10 years ago.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: jonks
On abortion, gay marriage, et al, I?m libertarian.

"He acknowledges the only reason this is noteworthy is because of his name"

Exactly. This is like one of those Hollywood strumpets who tries to do something scandalous to get in papers because her career is tanking. Buckley is no conservative obviously and neither is McCain. America is center-right country and boobs like McCain and Buckley are no indicator of that. Buckley probably likes Obama's cross-dressing protections.

Dude, you seriously need to quit worrying so much about what meaningless crap others are doing that doesn't even affect you and work on yourself.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You mean the idiot isn't going to vote third party? He believes in small government and all that libertarian rant and is going to vote for an intelligent liberal in the hope that only an intelligent liberal can possibly bring change. I'll be F*cked.

There's are intelligent liberals running for office? Where?

Irony.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jonks

But that was?sigh?then. John McCain has changed. He said, famously, apropos the Republican debacle post-1994, ?We came to Washington to change it, and Washington changed us.? This campaign has changed John McCain. It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget ?by the end of my first term.? Who, really, believes that? Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis. His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?

I agree with this 100%. The only reason to vote for McCain right now is if you're paranoid in fear over Obama. The McCain of 2000 was a very different person from the McCain of today. The McCain of today has listened too much to advisers and has departed from his own views. Where he was once a man willing to stand, sometimes quixotically, firm for his beliefs, he has become nothing more than another party-line Republican pandering to a reactionary band of fundamentalists. This is unacceptable.

The article makes it quite a long way before the wheels fall off, but Buckley loses me here:

But having a first-class temperament and a first-class intellect, President Obama will (I pray, secularly) surely understand that traditional left-politics aren?t going to get us out of this pit we?ve dug for ourselves. If he raises taxes and throws up tariff walls and opens the coffers of the DNC to bribe-money from the special interest groups against whom he has (somewhat disingenuously) railed during the campaign trail, then he will almost certainly reap a whirlwind that will make Katrina look like a balmy summer zephyr.

There is simply nothing to suggest either of those outcomes. Obama's voting records certainly do not show any trace of an "understand(ing) that traditional left-politics aren?t going to get us out of this pit we?ve dug for ourselves"; in fact they strongly suggest that he firmly believes that traditional left-politics are the only thing that will dig us out. I hope to God that I am wrong and that Buckley is right, but I simply don't see a strong empirical basis for his view.

As it stands, from a practical standpoint I will be helping Obama win during this election as my vote is going to Ron Paul. I will not vote for McCain just for the memories of what he once was but is not now and I will not vote for Obama when he has given every indication that he will only expand government.

ZV

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

There is simply nothing to suggest either of those outcomes. Obama's voting records certainly do not show any trace of an "understand(ing) that traditional left-politics aren?t going to get us out of this pit we?ve dug for ourselves"; in fact they strongly suggest that he firmly believes that traditional left-politics are the only thing that will dig us out. I hope to God that I am wrong and that Buckley is right, but I simply don't see a strong empirical basis for his view.

As it stands, from a practical standpoint I will be helping Obama win during this election as my vote is going to Ron Paul. I will not vote for McCain just for the memories of what he once was but is not now and I will not vote for Obama when he has given every indication that he will only expand government.

ZV

What you mean is that at your level of understanding there's nothing to suggest it to you. You should understand that a broken thermometer gives false readings. And you won't be helping Obama win because you won't be canceling a vote for McSame.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There is simply nothing to suggest either of those outcomes. Obama's voting records certainly do not show any trace of an "understand(ing) that traditional left-politics aren?t going to get us out of this pit we?ve dug for ourselves"; in fact they strongly suggest that he firmly believes that traditional left-politics are the only thing that will dig us out. I hope to God that I am wrong and that Buckley is right, but I simply don't see a strong empirical basis for his view.

As it stands, from a practical standpoint I will be helping Obama win during this election as my vote is going to Ron Paul. I will not vote for McCain just for the memories of what he once was but is not now and I will not vote for Obama when he has given every indication that he will only expand government.

ZV

What you mean is that at your level of understanding there's nothing to suggest it to you. You should understand that a broken thermometer gives false readings. And you won't be helping Obama win because you won't be canceling a vote for McSame.

Give me facts and data to illustrate how my own thermometer is broken. If you cannot, there is no reason for me to assume that it's my thermometer that's broken and not yours.

Obama's voting record does not suggest that he has any inclination towards smaller government. He has voted for expanding the scope of government on issues like health care and education. Have you even read his "Blueprint for Change"? It positively reeks of big-government programs. If you can give me good examples of Obama voting against expanding governmental control I'll gladly consider them, but I have yet to see any trend in this direction.

I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There's are intelligent liberals running for office? Where?

Hmm...Harvard Law honor student or guy who finished 5th from the bottom of a class of 900. This is not a good argument for your side.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

There is simply nothing to suggest either of those outcomes. Obama's voting records certainly do not show any trace of an "understand(ing) that traditional left-politics aren?t going to get us out of this pit we?ve dug for ourselves"; in fact they strongly suggest that he firmly believes that traditional left-politics are the only thing that will dig us out. I hope to God that I am wrong and that Buckley is right, but I simply don't see a strong empirical basis for his view.

As it stands, from a practical standpoint I will be helping Obama win during this election as my vote is going to Ron Paul. I will not vote for McCain just for the memories of what he once was but is not now and I will not vote for Obama when he has given every indication that he will only expand government.

ZV

What you mean is that at your level of understanding there's nothing to suggest it to you. You should understand that a broken thermometer gives false readings. And you won't be helping Obama win because you won't be canceling a vote for McSame.

You're not so good at the math, are you?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

You missed the key phrase: "there is a very slightly lower chance".

Read properly, the use of that phrase clearly indicates that there is an understanding that Republicans have expanded the role of government and that I still consider McCain to be a risk from the perspective of one who wants to avoid that expansion. However, even though McCain represents, in my opinion, a significant risk of governmental expansion, I still feel that Obama represents a slightly greater risk.

And, of course, that assessment is only valid in a scenario in which Obama and McCain were the only two candidates for whom I could vote. In the real world, I have other options open to me who allow me to vote more fully in accordance with my preference for smaller government.

ZV

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

He already explained this. While McCain would expand government, Obama intends to do it to a greater extent.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

You missed the key phrase: "there is a very slightly lower chance".

Read properly, the use of that phrase clearly indicates that there is an understanding that Republicans have expanded the role of government and that I still consider McCain to be a risk from the perspective of one who wants to avoid that expansion. However, even though McCain represents, in my opinion, a significant risk of governmental expansion, I still feel that Obama represents a slightly greater risk.

And, of course, that assessment is only valid in a scenario in which Obama and McCain were the only two candidates for whom I could vote. In the real world, I have other options open to me who allow me to vote more fully in accordance with my preference for smaller government.

ZV

I did miss it.

I suppose I could agree with that....

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

You missed the key phrase: "there is a very slightly lower chance".

Read properly, the use of that phrase clearly indicates that there is an understanding that Republicans have expanded the role of government and that I still consider McCain to be a risk from the perspective of one who wants to avoid that expansion. However, even though McCain represents, in my opinion, a significant risk of governmental expansion, I still feel that Obama represents a slightly greater risk.

And, of course, that assessment is only valid in a scenario in which Obama and McCain were the only two candidates for whom I could vote. In the real world, I have other options open to me who allow me to vote more fully in accordance with my preference for smaller government.

ZV

I did miss it.

I suppose I could agree with that....

It's an easy enough piece to miss, especially given the claims pushed by some of those who lean right unquestioningly.

Obama is an incredibly intelligent person and I have absolute confidence that he truly believes in the positions he is following. I simply happen to disagree with him on some core issues.

I also agree with everyone in this thread who has lamented the loss of the intelligentsia on the right of the political spectrum. The current trend towards anti-intellectualism in the Republican party is worrisome inasmuch as it indicates that there is a need for an immediate and significant re-alignment of the party.

ZV

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


I will be canceling a vote for McCain. Mine. I greatly dislike McCain, but there is a very slightly lower chance of significant governmental expansion from McCain/Palin than there is from Obama/Biden. If I did not have the option of Paul, I would hold my nose and vote for McCain simply in an effort to avoid any further expansion of government.

ZV

That is ignoring the fact that the republicans of late have been reallly good at expanding the government. Therefore, I don't understand your POV.

You missed the key phrase: "there is a very slightly lower chance".

Read properly, the use of that phrase clearly indicates that there is an understanding that Republicans have expanded the role of government and that I still consider McCain to be a risk from the perspective of one who wants to avoid that expansion. However, even though McCain represents, in my opinion, a significant risk of governmental expansion, I still feel that Obama represents a slightly greater risk.

And, of course, that assessment is only valid in a scenario in which Obama and McCain were the only two candidates for whom I could vote. In the real world, I have other options open to me who allow me to vote more fully in accordance with my preference for smaller government.

ZV

I did miss it.

I suppose I could agree with that....

It's an easy enough piece to miss, especially given the claims pushed by some of those who lean right unquestioningly.

Obama is an incredibly intelligent person and I have absolute confidence that he truly believes in the positions he is following. I simply happen to disagree with him on some core issues.

I also agree with everyone in this thread who has lamented the loss of the intelligentsia on the right of the political spectrum. The current trend towards anti-intellectualism in the Republican party is worrisome inasmuch as it indicates that there is a need for an immediate and significant re-alignment of the party.

ZV

I agree wholeheartedly with the latter as well. I wish the republican party was one I could really follow/believe in but it isn't. If they were Eisenhower republicans, I'd be much more inclined to vote R.

 

[OrByte]

Richard Lugar, Ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee just endorseed Obama.

Basically saying that Obama's foreign approach is better than McCains.

:thumbsup:

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: loki8481

He acknowledges the only reason this is noteworthy is because of his name

right... so why should I care what some guy with a famous dad thinks?

Christopher Buckley is a former George W Bush speechwriter.

 

[seemingly random]

Repug voters need to let go of the belief that the republican party is for smaller gov't and fiscal responsibility. Repeating this mantra isn't going to make it happen. Continuing to spout this is revealing a suspension of disbelief - almost religious-like. It's getting embarrassing - like wishing and wishing a pet hadn't died.

Face it, the republican party is dead.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: loki8481

He acknowledges the only reason this is noteworthy is because of his name

right... so why should I care what some guy with a famous dad thinks?

Christopher Buckley is a former George W Bush speechwriter.

Seems like a lot of repugs are coming in from the cold - including posters here on at forums.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Obama is an incredibly intelligent person and I have absolute confidence that he truly believes in the positions he is following. I simply happen to disagree with him on some core issues.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and have felt this way since since '04. I think Obama is a man with the country's best interests in mind and that he truly believes his approach to government is what this country needs; I just don't share some of his core values and I disagree with his many of his approaches.

I did *not* feel this way about Kerry *at all*.