Got a strange problem with Vista

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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I just recently assembled a new computer and installed Vista SP1 on it, SP1 was included in the installation image and the version is RTM. All my device drivers and BIOS have been updated to their latest versions.

And now to the problem. I leave my computer to idle for a long period of time, say an hour or so. When I try to resume activity by opening start menu, it may open start menu half-way and then just loop the loading mouse cursor, when this happens I can't move the cursor anymore. Or if I lock the computer and come back after an hour, I can log in just fine, but Vista keeps looping the Welcome message and does not proceed further.

I have no other choice but to use cold restart. I've also checked Windows event logs and there isn't anything else except few mentions of unexpected shutdown. However, if I leave any program to run so that there is some disk/cpu/ram activity while I'm gone, I can resume working even after a few hours without problems. At first I thought that Vista has problems waking up my hard drive, but disabling it from power settings didn't help. The computer has no problems on load, I've played loads of games so it is not a general instability problem.

Specs:
Vista SP1 RTM
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3 (BIOS F12)
4x 2GB Kingston ValueRAM
Core2Duo E8200
Radeon 3870 (Catalyst 8.2)
Seagate 7200.11 (AHCI enabled)

Does anyone have any clues as to what might cause this system freeze if left to idle too long? Thanks in advance.
 

vdsl

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2008
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Look the problem is probably with sleep, my pc when idle too long (60min) it try to go to sleep, and i cant wake up it without restart, so u have probably the same problem.
The solution is not known, but u can remove that ur pc goes in sleep.
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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I would get these freezes with the Dream Scene set as the Desktop Background.

Ctrl-Alt-Del and Log off "solves" it, so hard shutdown is not necessary.

Also, disable Windows Defender (at least the Real Time protection in it) - it can interfere with some other programs with Real Time protection enabled. My defender would clash with Norton Internet Security 2007, and it did not like Riva Tuner.

Good luck!
 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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I don't have Vista Ultimate and thus don't have Dream Scene either. I'm pretty sure I tried Ctrl - Alt- Del once, but I'll try it again next time just to make sure if it works or not.
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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Ctrl-Alt-Del is just a solution NOT to have to do a hard reboot.

Disable the Defender to see if it solves your problem.
 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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Oddly enough this time the problem occurred in much less than an hour, probably more like in 20 minutes. Anyway, ctrl - alt - del doesn't do anything, the computer is completely frozen at that point.

I'll try disabling Windows Defender and all power saving options and see what happens the next time.
 

JustaGeek

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Jan 27, 2007
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In BIOS, set your RAM voltage manually. Increase it by a 0.1V if necessary.

Manually set the frequency and timings, too.

If all else fails, try to drop the RAM frequency to 667MHz.

Also, increase the Northbridge voltage. Some motherboards have a hard time dealing with 4 memory sticks.

EDIT: And ensure that the +5VSB is enabled in BIOS where applicable. You might have to set the jumpers to +5VSB for the USB ports and PS/2.

And "uncheck" "Allow this device to wake the computer" for all the mice, joysticks, keyboards and Network Adapters - as you've said you would do.

You might have to go deeper into the Network Adapter settings, and disable everything that refers to Wake on LAN settings.
 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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In BIOS, set your RAM voltage manually. Increase it by a 0.1V if necessary.
Manually set the frequency and timings, too.
If all else fails, try to drop the RAM frequency to 667MHz.
If there was a problem with voltages, I'd think any problems would occur while hardware is actually under load? And the Kingston RAM is specced 667MHz.

And "uncheck" "Allow this device to wake the computer" for all the mice, joysticks, keyboards and Network Adapters - as you've said you would do.
You might have to go deeper into the Network Adapter settings, and disable everything that refers to Wake on LAN settings.
Since I do not use sleep mode at all, I don't think these settings would do anything.

Anyway, I'll see what happens later today when I leave the computer to idle while Defender and all power saving options have been disabled from Power Settings.
 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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Well, the same thing happens even if I have Windows Defender disabled and all Vista power saving options disabled.

One thing I need to correct however, I can still move mouse cursor if I haven't locked the computer. If locked, mouse cursor disappears once login begins but never reappears as the Welcome message keeps looping. Sorry for the earlier confusion. At least moving mouse cursor means my system isn't totally frozen. This is beginning to seem like a Vista or driver bug.

I'll see what happens when I boot into Ubuntu LiveCD and leave it to idle for an hour.
 

C1

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2008
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Yes, it does appear to be some kind of bug associated with power management.
Just a long shot ---- first be sure to minimize power management settings in the BIOS, then checkout use of the power options command line in the OS. See:

http://technet2.microsoft.com/...03bc1033.mspx?mfr=true


Some options like hibernate (eg, powercfg= -H off/on) are not in the panel anymore. Recommend do a "-list" to see what if anything is actually in force. Use the command line option to eliminate (or even locate/isolate) any offending state/setting(s).

Oh yes, and another idea comes to mind. The thing I noticed about VISTA when it sits idle for any length of time then it writes to disk (ie, writes to pagefile ?). If the power options analyses are inconclusive then recommend disabling (along with all power options) all pagefile(ing) [and even Restore]. Try to close in on the specific functionality which is involved with the problem. Re-tailor the system settings as a temporary fix then search (or wait) for a bug fix. (Also try an online VISTA update.)

If prefetch turns out to be the "show stopper" then it may be possible to disable it the same in VISTA as in WINXP (see below instruction from Centerion's Smart Restart user's guide).

"Windows XP has a function called "Prefetch," which automatically starts a defragmentation to optimize disk layout after a system has been idle for a period of time. To disable the prefetching function, you will need to make the following registry edit:"

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\Memory
Management\PrefetchParameters\EnablePrefetcher...set this value to 0

 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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Yesterday I tried Ubuntu LiveCD and let it idle little over an hour, afterwards everything was still functioning properly. I also ran memtest86 overnight just to make sure it isn't a RAM problem, by morning it was doing 6th pass and no errors.

There are no updates available for Vista x64 SP1 RTM, except for a few Defender updates. Finding the problem seems to be like finding a needle in a haystack. Well, I'll get back to you if I figure out anything. Hopefully this is just a device driver bug and will be fixed soon.
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
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Update your BIOS to the latest reportedly stable version, clear your BIOS settings to defaults, and then set them back to appropriate values you've recorded from your original settings.

I have a motherboard that doesn't in BIOS RESERVE the proper memory space for devices that are actually on the motherboard, but reports those areas as FREE RAM.
Needless to say if I install over a certain amount of memory in that system the OS will crash rather badly once it runs for a while and starts to use RAM that isn't really RAM. I would NOT be shocked to see a similar problem with yours.

Turn OFF ACPI in the BIOS for testing.

Set: PLUG AND PLAY OS? iteratively to YES and NO
and see if that makes the situation better one way or the other.

Use the BIOS setup to disable things like onboard sound, parallel port, game port, SATA (if not needed), et. al.

 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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BIOS is already the latest version and BIOS defaults have been tried.

I do not believe this is a RAM issue because Vista's own RAM diagnostic tool that can be ran on boot-up passes, memtest86 passes and games run fine.
 

The Keeper

Senior member
Mar 27, 2007
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Took really long time to figure this one out. Several game/software installers/patchers were giving data integrity errors in addition to the system freezing if left to idle. Disabling AHCI from BIOS didn't affect the situation at all. But I decided to keep AHCI disabled and reformat my system drive and reinstall Vista SP1 x64. Now I've been running this freshly installed Vista several days without any problems whatsoever.

No more instellers/patchers giving data integrity errors and no more freezing if left to idle. Clearly there is somewhere a problem with AHCI implementation. BIOS, HDD, Vista's native AHCI driver, who knows. The important thing is that the problem has been solved.