Got a new car, had oil changed - does synthetic really make a difference?

[Sheepathon]

I recently purchased an 04 S2000 with 17500 miles on it (naturally aspirated, stock, no superchargers/turbos), and I have a friend who owns an 05 (same car) who swears by synthetic oil. I got an oil and filter change the moment I bought the car, and he convinced me to use 10w40 royal purple synthetic oil (not the factory recommended 10w30 "because of summer heat"), and I said sure, why the hell not. However, I feel no difference whatsoever driving the car after the oil change - the engine noise, feel of the vehicle, responsiveness, etc feels identical to before I got the oil change.

The owner's manual recommends 10w30. Now, I'm no gearhead, but isn't it a good idea to follow the directions of the engineers who built the f'in car and wrote a manual for it? I live in Southern California, but even though it gets pretty hot sometimes during the summer, is it really necessary to stray from regular, non-synthetic 10w30?

Also, will switching back to regular non-synth 10w30 at my next oil change have any negative effects whatsoever? I feel that switching back to regular 10w30 and having regular oil changes done every 3000 miles seems like a reasonably safe thing to do. However, my buddy says that "most non-synths are mineral based, and "imagine fine particle oil vs almost freeflowing, and motor/ pistons/ rings being lubed by that fine oil, and all the sudden you put back the oil with particles in it, the rings will not seat right."

Thoughts?

 

[Tyrant222]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

for oil related talk.

my advice, stick to 10w30. also, you don't need to stick to 3k for synthetic, you can stretch that to a point. I usually do 4-5k whenever I get time. the car I just bought uses mobil 1 from the factory.

oh and I have no idea about your friends comments, but im pretty sure rp is a group 4 oil so its a true full synthetic. So its a great product. Even better than mobil 1 now that it is a group 3.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Sheepathon
The owner's manual recommends 10w30. Now, I'm no gearhead, but isn't it a good idea to follow the directions of the engineers who built the Fin car and wrote a manual for it? I live in Southern California, but even though it gets pretty hot sometimes during the summer, is it really necessary to stray from regular, non-synthetic 10w30?
Thoughts?

In my opinion your thinking here is spot on. Don't listen to friends who get caught up in marketing hype or worse, the thoughts of "bubba" the shade tree mechanic.

A lot of engineering went into the production of the motor of your car. Part of that was the weight and type of oil to use. This from the people that have to warranty it.

Switch back with no hesitation. Exceeding the manufacturers recommendation for oil change intervals may make you feel like you're doing a good thing, but in reality you are wasting money and furthering our dependence on foreign oil.

Europeans think our frequent oil changes are both crazy and wasteful.

 

[DivideBYZero]

IMHO you should stick to the recommended weight unless there is a mention in the manual for 'harsh conditions' which mentions a differing weight oil.

As far as your friend, his engineering evidence appears to be, 'because of summer'. Honda test vehicles in hot conditions, just like all other motor manufacturers and will have factored this in to the development of the vehicle and it's specifications.

My 2p.

 

[GoatMonkey]

In an engine that revs as high as the s2000 I'd definitely use synthetic. You should stick to the original specified oil weight though, but I doubt that using the 40 once would hurt anything.

 

[overst33r]

Over at S2ki, the general consensus seems to be conventional oil for the first oil change and then synthetic oil thereafter. Stick to the manual, Honda knows what they are doing.

 

[desy]

I put in the van
In the middle of winter when its 40 below you can tell when starting , other than that no.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Switch back and forth all you want and 3k miles is nothing for regular old oil anymore. You certainly won't hurt anything running synthetic and I do myself in both my turbo charged cars but its not magic juice. The engine will out live the rest of the car running on the cheapest oil anymore as long as its changed when it needs changed.

 

[dawheat]

I had an 04' S2000 and the consensus was that for anything outside of regular track driving (still debatable), dino oil worked fine. This of course assumes you're NA.

The only thing you gain is potentially being able to change your oil a bit later (4-5K miles instead of 3K). Most S2K owners switched to synthetic mostly for the extra peice of mind as the cost difference isn't very much and the S2Ks were generally weekend/fun cars which meant it could take a while to run up 3000-5000 miles.

DIY and a synthetic oil change costs you like $33 - no big deal. Mobil 1 synthetic is fine - no need to pay big $$ for Royal Purple or Redline.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

im sorry, but personally, im going to stick with royal purple. thats me, when i get my new motor in my car, breaking it in, with royal purple as well, for the first 1k miles. and then after that, regular changes with it. unless i hear otherwise, i know its good for rotary motors, and if its good enough for a rotary(which are heavy users of oil) its probly more than ample for a regular piston powered motor, especially if you ever plan on revving that s2000 to redline. which if im not mistaken, is the 9000rpm one isnt it?

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
im sorry, but personally, im going to stick with royal purple. thats me, when i get my new motor in my car, breaking it in, with royal purple as well, for the first 1k miles. and then after that, regular changes with it. unless i hear otherwise, i know its good for rotary motors, and if its good enough for a rotary(which are heavy users of oil) its probly more than ample for a regular piston powered motor, especially if you ever plan on revving that s2000 to redline. which if im not mistaken, is the 9000rpm one isnt it?

No, the AP2 (2004 to present) has the F22C 2.2L engine which revs to 8000 RPM.

 

[soonerproud]

Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more. Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions. Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

Just read the owners manual for the specifics on when and how to change the oil and just follow it. Don't listen to any one else, just do what the manufacturer recommends to protect your warranty and extend the life of your car.

PS. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is overkill and a waste of money unless specifically recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more. Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions. Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

Just read the owners manual for the specifics on when and how to change the oil and just follow it. Don't listen to any one else, just do what the manufacturer recommends to protect your warranty and extend the life of your car.

PS. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is overkill and a waste of money unless specifically recommended by the manufacturer.

Stop posting.

Synthetic oil has been proven to help daily drivers with certain cars/trucks. My 4cyl. Turbo powered car gets Syn. all the time. I put Syn. oil in my dads truck as he towed a lot with it in the southern summers.

Also tell people with toyotas that went 7000miles on reg. oil that its ok. Mind you there engine sludged up and toyota fought them until it hit the news over covering their repairs. 1 case the guy took his car to a toyota dealer and never went over 7000 miles. Yet they still would not cover his engine.

I was a auto tech for over 10years, so just stop posting when you have no idea what you are talking about. Seems you are just reposting what you read else where on the internet.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more. Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions. Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

Just read the owners manual for the specifics on when and how to change the oil and just follow it. Don't listen to any one else, just do what the manufacturer recommends to protect your warranty and extend the life of your car.

PS. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is overkill and a waste of money unless specifically recommended by the manufacturer.

Stop posting.

Synthetic oil has been proven to help daily drivers with certain cars/trucks. My 4cyl. Turbo powered car gets Syn. all the time. I put Syn. oil in my dads truck as he towed a lot with it in the southern summers.

Also tell people with toyotas that went 7000miles on reg. oil that its ok. Mind you there engine sludged up and toyota fought them until it hit the news over covering their repairs. 1 case the guy took his car to a toyota dealer and never went over 7000 miles. Yet they still would not cover his engine.

I was a auto tech for over 10years, so just stop posting when you have no idea what you are talking about. Seems you are just reposting what you read else where on the internet.

Bunk

I know what I am talking about. I don't just read this stuff on the internet mind you. I come from a family of mechanics and am very informed on these issues thank you very much.

Also if you would read my post I told the op to go with manufacturer recommended specs. My mom owned a Toyota Corolla we did 7000 mile oil changes on and it never gunked up. She finally sold the car at 200K miles and it ran like a jewel.

The only time I would use synthetic is if the manufacturer recommends that synthetic be used.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: soonerproud

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more. Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions. Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

Just read the owners manual for the specifics on when and how to change the oil and just follow it. Don't listen to any one else, just do what the manufacturer recommends to protect your warranty and extend the life of your car.

PS. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is overkill and a waste of money unless specifically recommended by the manufacturer.

Stop posting.

Synthetic oil has been proven to help daily drivers with certain cars/trucks. My 4cyl. Turbo powered car gets Syn. all the time. I put Syn. oil in my dads truck as he towed a lot with it in the southern summers.

Also tell people with toyotas that went 7000miles on reg. oil that its ok. Mind you there engine sludged up and toyota fought them until it hit the news over covering their repairs. 1 case the guy took his car to a toyota dealer and never went over 7000 miles. Yet they still would not cover his engine.

I was a auto tech for over 10years, so just stop posting when you have no idea what you are talking about. Seems you are just reposting what you read else where on the internet.

Bunk

I know what I am talking about. I don't just read this stuff on the internet mind you. I come from a family of mechanics and am very informed on these issues thank you very much.

Also if you would read my post I told the op to go with manufacturer recommended specs. My mom owned a Toyota Corolla we did 7000 mile oil changes on and it never gunked up. She finally sold the car at 200K miles and it ran like a jewel.

The only time I would use synthetic is if the manufacturer recommends that synthetic be used.

So your ONE car proves it? :roll:

I guess all teh lawsuits and oh yea, even toyota admitting it was all false?
And no you have no idea what you are talking about, and you just proved it again.

 

[thedarkwolf]

That was more toyota's engine sucking then the dyno oil. Dodge had the same problem with their 2.7l.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
That was more toyota's engine sucking then the dyno oil. Dodge had the same problem with their 2.7l.

Thats the point. Not ALL cars can go 7000miles on reg oil. And yes some cars, like Turbo powered ones, have been show to do better on a good Syn. oil.

The same toyotas with Syn. oil and changing at 5000miles seems to have made the sludge issue a non-issue.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
That was more toyota's engine sucking then the dyno oil. Dodge had the same problem with their 2.7l.

Thats the point. Not ALL cars can go 7000miles on reg oil. And yes some cars, like Turbo powered ones, have been show to do better on a good Syn. oil.

The same toyotas with Syn. oil and changing at 5000miles seems to have made the sludge issue a non-issue.

You are misreading what I said in the first place. I never suggested everyone change their oil at 7000 miles. I said follow the manufacturers guidelines. I also suggested the same thing when it comes to synthetic oil.

I guess you missed the part where I said driving conditions may dictate otherwise. Why don't you go back and read my first post where I said you may need to change the oil at 5000 miles.

Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

You just said the same thing I mentioned previously before you even replied to my post and told me I do not know what I am talking about.

You also tried to debunk what I said on synthetic oil by mentioning specialized uses like towing and fine tuned turbocharged sports cars. Again you did not read what I posted.

Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more.

Most people do not drive a turbo powered sports car or do heavy towing. You are jumping to conclusions about what I meant by not taking the time to really read my posting. We said the exact same thing in a different way.

Please quit being rude and telling me to stop posting when you obviously are not taking the time to read what I actually said in the first place.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: soonerproud

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
That was more toyota's engine sucking then the dyno oil. Dodge had the same problem with their 2.7l.

Thats the point. Not ALL cars can go 7000miles on reg oil. And yes some cars, like Turbo powered ones, have been show to do better on a good Syn. oil.

The same toyotas with Syn. oil and changing at 5000miles seems to have made the sludge issue a non-issue.

You are misreading what I said in the first place. I never suggested everyone change their oil at 7000 miles. I said follow the manufacturers guidelines. I also suggested the same thing when it comes to synthetic oil.

I guess you missed the part where I said driving conditions may dictate otherwise. Why don't you go back and read my first post where I said you may need to change the oil at 5000 miles.

Most automobile manufacturers recommend changing the oil between 5000 and 7500 miles. If you live in a dry dusty climate or do mostly city driving then change the oil every 5000 miles. In most other climates and doing mostly highway miles, 7500 is just fine.

You just said the same thing I mentioned previously before you even replied to my post and told me I do not know what I am talking about.

You also tried to debunk what I said on synthetic oil by mentioning specialized uses like towing and fine tuned turbocharged sports cars. Again you did not read what I posted.

Synthetic is a waste of money. There is no real evidence it provides any benefits to the average driver and it cost more.

Most people do not drive a turbo powered sports car or do heavy towing. You are jumping to conclusions about what I meant by not taking the time to really read my posting. We said the exact same thing in a different way.

Please quit being rude and telling me to stop posting when you obviously are not taking the time to read what I actually said in the first place.

Try again. YOU said "Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions." and I showed you how wrong that was. In fact MOST oil companies, excluding Mobil, will say to only do 3000miles on regular oil. Heck call castrol and they will also say 3000miles on their Syn. oil.

Also a LOT daily driven cars are turbo, esp in europe. Look at the Suburas, Saabs, etc.. Cars that your "average driver" can go and pick up pretty easy.
Also I see you added some words now like "fine tuned turbocharged sports". When did I even say sports cars? I did not. In fact MY turbo powered car is 4 doors. (Saab 900SE).

After reading this I have to say... let me guess... 15? Your 15 years old? Just got your permit to drive and read all the car sites and know all of your "fine tuned turbocharged sports" cars do we. :laugh:

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
In fact MOST oil companies, excluding Mobil, will say to only do 3000miles on regular oil. Heck call castrol and they will also say Miles on their Syn. oil.

Are you serious? I'm guessing oil companies would just love for us to change our oil everyday. This would probably increase their profits somewhat - do you think? I would hope you'd be able to see through some marketing hype.

I've said this before here many times and I'll say it again. The manufacturer of my car included an oil-life indicator in it. It's not an option, it comes in every one they build and every car I've owned for the last 10 years has had one. My wife and I each get a new car every two years. Mine comes on between 10,000 and 11,000 miles. That's when I change the oil and filter. They recommend conventional, 5W-30 oil and that's what I use. They spent the time and money to engineer the system. They wrote the algorithms that make the indicator come on. I do what they say and save money and help the environment by doing so.

And here's the kicker. They have to warranty it. For 100,000 miles!

If you folks think Synthetic, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Grandma's Special Blend or whatever, is the hot setup, changed every 3,000. 5,000 or 62 miles, go for it. It's your money and you can spend it whatever way you want.

I've provided more factual information in this post than I've read here thus far. The majority of you are going by your gut feeling, your best friend Lenny's advice who knows everything about cars, or the worst, my daddy always did it like that.

I'll shake the hand of anyone here that says they change their oil based on the manufacturers recommendations.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975Try again. YOU said "Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions." and I showed you how wrong that was. In fact MOST oil companies, excluding Mobil, will say to only do 3000miles on regular oil. Heck call castrol and they will also say 3000miles on their Syn. oil.

You really are drinking the marketing kool-aid. You did not show me jack spit. All you did was tell a story about a defective engine and a lawsuit that was the exception and not the rule.

Do you realize that big trucks run the exact same oil a car does yet they go between 15 to 18K miles before oil changes? These engines last on average 1 million miles between overhauls for your information. I know this first hand because that is what I used to do for a living.

You can not seem to understand the difference between the marketing department and the engineering department.

Also a LOT daily driven cars are turbo, esp in europe. Look at the Suburas, Saabs, etc.. Cars that your "average driver" can go and pick up pretty easy.

Again you don't seem to understand the difference between fine tuned and a normal engine. 18 wheelers also use turbos yet they go between 15 to 18K miles between changes. A turbo does not necessarily make one bit of difference depending on make and model of the car.

After reading this I have to say... let me guess... 15? Your 15 years old? Just got your permit to drive and read all the car sites and know all of your "fine tuned turbocharged sports" cars do we. :laugh:

The only one who is acting 15 here is you.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Are you serious? I'm guessing oil companies would just love for us to change our oil everyday. This would probably increase their profits somewhat - do you think? I would hope you'd be able to see through some marketing hype.

I've said this before here many times and I'll say it again. The manufacturer of my car included an oil-life indicator in it. It's not an option, it comes in every one they build and every car I've owned for the last 10 years has had one. My wife and I each get a new car every two years. Mine comes on between 10,000 and 11,000 miles. That's when I change the oil and filter. They recommend conventional, 5W-30 oil and that's what I use. They spent the time and money to engineer the system. They wrote the algorithms that make the indicator come on. I do what they say and save money and help the environment by doing so.

And here's the kicker. They have to warranty it. For 100,000 miles!

If you folks think Synthetic, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Grandma's Special Blend or whatever, is the hot setup, changed every 3,000. 5,000 or 62 miles, go for it. It's your money and you can spend it whatever way you want.

I've provided more factual information in this post than I've read here thus far. The majority of you are going by your gut feeling, your best friend Lenny's advice who knows everything about cars, or the worst, my daddy always did it like that.

I'll shake the hand of anyone here that says they change their oil based on the manufacturers recommendations.

Very well said.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

im sorry, but im not going to leave oil in my engine for more than 3k, to me, thats just asking for something to happen. how black is your oil at 3k, do you even know? if its pitch black ,and sludge, yah thats bad. if they recommend you for 3k, shouldnt you listen? if you go over 3k, and then end up suing them for something happening to your car, guess what, they will tell you they recommended you to change your oil at 3k, and if you didnt its your own damn falt. end of story. nobody will sympathize with you because you decided, im gonna save some money, and do my own thing. changing your oil more often isnt a bad thing, the only thing you can do wrong, is spend a little more money on oil. especially on a high revving engine, so you tell me, all those tuners out there with turbo's superchargers and high revving na's, all the guys that have 400+whp changing oil sooner sometimes than recommended, that keep the engine going for in excess of 70-120k miles are wrong? common sense would probly kick you in the face right about now wouldnt it?

oh and rotary engines, burn 1quart every 1k miles under relativly light load because thats how they maintain a seal on the apex seals and the housings. under heavy, it gets faster.

http://autos.yahoo.com/owning/...%01qalubric%01qaengoil

and for the guy that follows the light on this dash.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/how_often_change_oil.htm

 

[Pliablemoose]

Well... I have to agree with Marlin.

Modern engines are fairly high stressed units, the studies I've read about synthetics in motorcycles after analysis suggests that higher stressed engines (like high reving S2000's) benefit from synthetic oils as the molecules are more stable when subjected to shearing forces.

Also, you'll find few car enthusiasts that run dino oil in a supercharged or turbocharged engine.

I like these forums: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: soonerproud

Originally posted by: Marlin1975Try again. YOU said "Todays oils are actually designed to run 7500 miles between oil changes depending on weather conditions." and I showed you how wrong that was. In fact MOST oil companies, excluding Mobil, will say to only do 3000miles on regular oil. Heck call castrol and they will also say 3000miles on their Syn. oil.

You really are drinking the marketing kool-aid. You did not show me jack spit. All you did was tell a story about a defective engine and a lawsuit that was the exception and not the rule.

Do you realize that big trucks run the exact same oil a car does yet they go between 15 to 18K miles before oil changes? These engines last on average 1 million miles between overhauls for your information. I know this first hand because that is what I used to do for a living.

You can not seem to understand the difference between the marketing department and the engineering department.

Also a LOT daily driven cars are turbo, esp in europe. Look at the Suburas, Saabs, etc.. Cars that your "average driver" can go and pick up pretty easy.

Again you don't seem to understand the difference between fine tuned and a normal engine. 18 wheelers also use turbos yet they go between 15 to 18K miles between changes. A turbo does not necessarily make one bit of difference depending on make and model of the car.

After reading this I have to say... let me guess... 15? Your 15 years old? Just got your permit to drive and read all the car sites and know all of your "fine tuned turbocharged sports" cars do we. :laugh:

The only one who is acting 15 here is you.

Have you even worked on a Big rig or know anything about them? No, and your post shows that. Most use a high additive 15w40. Also they don;t measure their oil in quarts, they measure it in GALLONS. Also diesels put less stress on their oil. Those ar ejust some of the reason they can get a lot of miles on their oil.

AGAIN stop posting. Every post just shows you know nothing.