Google lashes out at Apple and Microsoft

[akugami]

David Drummond blog post

Google's chief legal officer, David Drummond has written a blog post condemning the actions of Apple, MS, and Oracle claiming their actions are a concerted effort against Android.


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He mentions Apple and MS formed an alliance to keep Google from acquiring the Nortel patents and that they paid about 5 times the pre-auction price of $1 billion. He neglects to mention the $1 billion price was set by Google as a starting reference point and that by most accounts, the patents would have sold for $2 billion to $2.5 billion. So the price is only about twice the expected final bid price. Still extremely hefty but not nearly as large of a jump as he's trying to paint it to be.

He also doesn't mention that Google and Intel formed their own alliance and put up over $4 billion collectively but opted to bow out of the bidding for patents that are now called dubious. I bet you he would have been singing a different song if Google had won regardless of whether it was $1 billion or $4 billion. Oh, and did he mention there were two Android OEM's (really one since it's Sony Ericcson) in the group with MS & Apple?

I think the last paragraph written by David Drummond shows his true reasons for the blog post. It's a publicity move to hopefully generate outcry and get the DOJ to force Apple and Microsoft to license the Nortel patents at a lower price. The OS is not an insignificant investment but it's only a part of the cost of each mobile device. What Google is afraid of is that the licensing fees (which they get none of) for Android will equal or be greater than that of Microsoft's WP7 and make OEM's less willing to invest in Android phones and other devices. There's also a "think of the children" comment there at the end making it seem like Google is only thinking of consumers. Like MS and Apple, Google is in it to make money.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I find Google being pretty deceptive here, their company is founded on a software search algorithm that's patented.

I'm sure there's lots of people willing to scream about the patent issue, but Google has a weak hand here, and they know it, and they're trying to drum up public support.

I'd be a lot more receptive to Google's argument if they'd stood firm against the carriers and manufacturers hacking the crap out of Android, or treating all the manufacturers fairly, or made the manufacturers agree to update their OS's in a timely manner etc...

If popularity = legal, we'd all be downloading mp3's and movies without concern.

Popular =/= legal or a winning argument in court.

The threats against Android's survival are very real, and they're Google's fault for ignoring IP.

I've recently accused of bleeding Android green if I was cut, and I have to tell you Android is in serious trouble as an OS.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I find Google being pretty deceptive here, their company is founded on a software search algorithm that's patented.

I'm sure there's lots of people willing to scream about the patent issue, but Google has a weak hand here, and they know it, and they're trying to drum up public support.

I'd be a lot more receptive to Google's argument if they'd stood firm against the carriers and manufacturers hacking the crap out of Android, or treating all the manufacturers fairly, or made the manufacturers agree to update their OS's in a timely manner etc...

If popularity = legal, we'd all be downloading mp3's and movies without concern.

Popular =/= legal or a winning argument in court.

The threats against Android's survival are very real, and they're Google's fault for ignoring IP.

I've recently accused of bleeding Android green if I was cut, and I have to tell you Android is in serious trouble as an OS.

How much is patented and how much is trade secret?

 

[badb0y]

This was bound to happen but I think as an OS Android is too big right now to just go away or fail. They are the fastest growing smartphone OS and litigation can only slow the growth of Android not stop it.

 

[Pliablemoose]

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1024-986204.html

note the date...

 

[3chordcharlie]

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1024-986204.html

note the date...

Incorporated in 1998 and filed for first patent in 2001... that doesn't tell me a lot

I was just wondering.

 

[Bateluer]

How much is patented and how much is trade secret?

And is it a real patent, not the generic crap that MS and Apple file suits over?

 

[Pliablemoose]

And is it a real patent, not the generic crap that MS and Apple file suits over?

If the Nortel patents et al weren't real, why did Google bid billions of dollars on them?

 

[Glitchny]

If the Nortel patents et al weren't real, why did Google bid billions of dollars on them?

Pretty obvious they wanted them as "protection" from patent litigation from MS and Apple. Considering the DoJ is already investigating Apple and MS and their patent trolling nonsense and oversaw them purchasing the Nortel patents because they were "concerned" about the use of the patents, I'm wholly on Google's side here.

 

[Bateluer]

If the Nortel patents et al weren't real, why did Google bid billions of dollars on them?

I was actually referring to the patents/trade secrets on Google's search algorithm, not the Nortel portfolio.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I was actually referring to the patents/trade secrets on Google's search algorithm, not the Nortel portfolio.

My bad, sorry...

 

[Deeko]

From a Microsoft VP:

Google says we bought Novell patents to keep them from Google. Really? We asked them to bid jointly with us. They said no.

https://twitter.com/#!/BradSmi/status/98902130412355585

In other words - Google is trying really hard to deceive the public to feel sympathetic towards them here.

 

[Glitchny]

From a Microsoft VP:



https://twitter.com/#!/BradSmi/status/98902130412355585

In other words - Google is trying really hard to deceive the public to feel sympathetic towards them here.

Or there were other caveats to joining the group to bid. I somehow doubt that MS just offered out of the kindness of their hearts. Most likely wanted some kind of deal with Android.

However it doesn't look good for Google at the moment.

 

[Pliablemoose]

From a Microsoft VP:



https://twitter.com/#!/BradSmi/status/98902130412355585

In other words - Google is trying really hard to deceive the public to feel sympathetic towards them here.

LOL, I just caught that, Google is playing the victim card, and it's not coming off very well.

Also, how does the whole "We wanted the patents to be used defensively" work unless you know you're already violating patent laws?

 

[cheezy321]

Google is an advertising company, it is not a technology company. This is one of the reasons why its patent portfolio is so low. It is not a technology company.

This is the perfect example of a reason I dislike google. They always try and drum up the 'dont be evil' mantra and always try to portray themselves as the good guys. This article makes it sound like all these other companies are unfairly ganging up against them.

First off, Google backs a well known patent troll called intellectual ventures:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/26/138576167/when-patents-attack

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2011/05/intellectual-ventures-reveals-investors.html

So apparently its ok when they do it, but not when other companies do it. Do as I say, not as I do.

Another example is Google Places. They were stealing the content (reviews) of all of the popular local search engines around the internet and placing them on their own google places pages without any citations. They were essentially stealing content to build up their own. They have finally fixed that, but google was stifling innovation by building Google Places on the backs of TripAdvisor, yelp and citysearch.

Google wants to always play the good guy but they themselves use the same underhanded tactics they complain about. Hypocrites.

 

[cheezy321]

LOL, I just caught that, Google is playing the victim card, and it's not coming off very well.

Also, how does the whole "We wanted the patents to be used defensively" work unless you know you're already violating patent laws?

Here is more info on it:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/03/microsoft-just-kicked-google-in-the-nuts/

Google tries to act like the wide eyed innocent child. I, for one, am not fooled.

 

[BenSkywalker]

In other words - Google is trying really hard to deceive the public to feel sympathetic towards them here.

Sometimes you get the impression that by osmosis you could lose most of your reasoning skills reading some of the posts around here.....

Google bid on the Nortel patents in order to use them as a defense mechanism against Apple and MS. If they placed a joint bid with MS and Apple, how the hell would it help them?

Also, how does the whole "We wanted the patents to be used defensively" work unless you know you're already violating patent laws?

This forum violates some of Apple's patents, Google's site certainly violates some patents that Apple has as did Windows 3.1(well, not when it came out as it wasn't until years later that Apple applied for the patent). I could probably get a patent approved for a liquid that is wet if I worded it properly.

 

[theeedude]

DOJ needs to keep a close eye on the Rockstar cartel. Make sure they don't do anything anti-competitive.

 

[smartpatrol]

See this article: "Google's new anti-patent stance has four credibility issues -- but not the one many people think"
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/googles-new-anti-patent-stance-has-four.html

So many people try to see Google as the "good guys" in all this, but IMO that is far from the truth. Google's business strategy with Android has been basically:

1. Create an OS that infringes on a bunch of others' patents. (And there is a strong suspicion they willfully infringed on Oracle's patents. . . Google originally tried to negotiate a licensing deal but later decided it was too expensive, so they decided to "roll the dice" on litigation)

2. Give the OS away for free. Android's real purpose is to funnel people towards Google's services, where Google can collect users' data and show them ads.

3. Offer no patent infringement indemnification, so their handset partners are the ones stuck getting sued, trying to negotiate cross-licensing deals or else pay royalties.

4. Keep silent about the heated issue of software patents, even as Android app developers are getting sued by patent trolls. After all, Google's entire business was based on their page ranking patent. Only start making noise when it looks like Google themselves could be on the hook for billions of dollars.

5. Profit!

 

[akugami]

Or there were other caveats to joining the group to bid. I somehow doubt that MS just offered out of the kindness of their hearts. Most likely wanted some kind of deal with Android.

However it doesn't look good for Google at the moment.

There's always caveats in joining forces. Any negotiation should be a little give and a little take. That's just business. I'm sure that Apple's alliance with the Rockstar group wasn't all roses for them and that Apple would have loved to take the whole patent portfolio for itself.

That Twitter post does cast a bad light on Google's stance though. Google is trying to paint a conspiracy theory alliance by Apple, MS and Oracle but it is full of holes. I still think that the last paragraph in David Drummond's blog post is the most relevant in terms of what Google is trying to do. They're trying to get the DOJ to lean on Apple & MS (and any others) to lower the licensing fees for Android OEM's.

Google is an advertising company, it is not a technology company. This is one of the reasons why its patent portfolio is so low. It is not a technology company.

This is the perfect example of a reason I dislike google. They always try and drum up the 'dont be evil' mantra and always try to portray themselves as the good guys. This article makes it sound like all these other companies are unfairly ganging up against them.

....

Don't forget Google was scanning books and displaying them without permission from copyright holders. On the one hand, some of what they were doing is to be commended by scanning out of print books or books out of copyright or who no one can find the copyright holder. However, Google was scanning recent books as well and were making a profit via book searches that had ads attached on the search page.

And that Techcrunch article you linked to shows how Google's stance is full of crap and that all conspiracy theorist should shut up. MS proposes a joint bid for patents, Google refuses. Google loses the bid, Google whines.

Sometimes you get the impression that by osmosis you could lose most of your reasoning skills reading some of the posts around here.....

Google bid on the Nortel patents in order to use them as a defense mechanism against Apple and MS. If they placed a joint bid with MS and Apple, how the hell would it help them?

I agree, there are some posters who can't think for themselves and have the gall to continually criticize other people's thinking and reading skills to hide the fact that they lack the ability to present an effective argument.

 

[mosco]

Sometimes you get the impression that by osmosis you could lose most of your reasoning skills reading some of the posts around here.....

Google bid on the Nortel patents in order to use them as a defense mechanism against Apple and MS. If they placed a joint bid with MS and Apple, how the hell would it help them?



This forum violates some of Apple's patents, Google's site certainly violates some patents that Apple has as did Windows 3.1(well, not when it came out as it wasn't until years later that Apple applied for the patent). I could probably get a patent approved for a liquid that is wet if I worded it properly.

http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies

Spot on article about google.

 

[cheezy321]

Sometimes you get the impression that by osmosis you could lose most of your reasoning skills reading some of the posts around here.....

Google bid on the Nortel patents in order to use them as a defense mechanism against Apple and MS. If they placed a joint bid with MS and Apple, how the hell would it help them?



This forum violates some of Apple's patents, Google's site certainly violates some patents that Apple has as did Windows 3.1(well, not when it came out as it wasn't until years later that Apple applied for the patent). I could probably get a patent approved for a liquid that is wet if I worded it properly.

By using the phrase 'defense mechanism' even you are sucked into the belief that google is the good guy just trying to defend itself while MS and Apple are the big bad evil guys trying to take down the good guy.

Keep drinkin the Kool Aid. Google is no more a 'good guy' than Apple or Microsoft. Put on your big boy pants google and act like the 190 Billion company that you are.

 

[BeauJangles]

http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies

Spot on article about google.

Account suspended.

 

[vshah]

And that Techcrunch article you linked to shows how Google's stance is full of crap and that all conspiracy theorist should shut up. MS proposes a joint bid for patents, Google refuses. Google loses the bid, Google whines.

i feel like there MUST be more to the story than just that. Google must have had a good (business) reason to refuse a joint bid.

 

[cheezy321]

i feel like there MUST be more to the story than just that. Google must have had a good (business) reason to refuse a joint bid.

There might be more to the story, we probably will never know the full truth. This does prove that there was no conspiracy for all of these other companies to 'gang up' on google. They were offered a chance to join in on the bid with them and they refused. Its as simple as that.