Google close to acquiring Waze

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lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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It's not about using any single solution.

The more countermeasures you have against traffic enforcement, the better. Waze is simply another tool for the arsenal. But in my arsenal, it ranks about #5 (unless I'm scanning CB, in which case it's #6).
It would be nice if there was a single solution. So far, I haven't seen one yet.

More isn't "always" better. What I want is verified and factual information. What good is it to mention you have 100 points but 20% of them are bogus?

The problem is Waze is missing some things and they also have a lot of false positives from people who are just submitting a bunch of crap to earn points. Information overload. Too many other Wazers, too many warnings. I traveled from Baltimore to Washington DC and there were more "car on the shoulder" warnings than you can ever imagine; Wazers trying to build up their points total by submitting stupid or bogus reports and warnings. What good is it to warn me that there's a car parked on the shoulder on a highway when there is absolutely no traffic and I'm cruising on the Interstate at 70MPH? Seriously???
Another issue is some black pneumatic sensor wires that are on the road when driving...Some Wazers think it's some secret speed camera and report it as such when all it is used for is to monitor traffic for "potential" construction projects. It's like somebody reporting those construction alerts that say "Your speed is XX" as a camera which is ridiculous.
I have to wonder though...If Waze got rid of their "points" system, could it cut down on such stupid/bogus reports I described above?

Trapster is worse than Waze IMO. Very outdated and completely unreliable. I certainly hope you don't have it ranked higher than Waze on your list. ;)

The only "crowdsourced" POI for Redlight and speed cameras that I trust in this day and age is from there.
http://www.poi-factory.com/poifiles/us/red-light-cameras
My advice is use whatever Navigation solution that allows you to upload those POI points with proximity alerts and those only.

You may see using Waze + Trapster + POI Factory + whatever else as "the more the better". Again, what I want is factual, verified, and useful information; not information overload from "car on shoulder" warnings while driving 70MPH on the highway with no traffic or people that think pneumatic sensor wires on local roads that monitor traffic data for potential construction projects are speed cameras.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
and that is?
Here's what I use:
Google Nav + Radardroid Pro + POI Factory redlight/speed camera database.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...sImNvbS52ZW50ZWwuYW5kcm9pZC5yYWRhcmRyb2lkMiJd
http://www.poi-factory.com/poifiles/us/red-light-cameras

Directions: Install Radardroid Pro, download POI redlight and speed camera database from site listed above. When you load Radardroid Pro, do NOT install the database that comes with the app because it's completely outdated(I believe they use Trapster which is worse than Waze IMO) and upload your own that you downloaded from above.

My major requirement was that I want to use my reliable POI only and also Google Navigation as my mapping service.
-Any app that doesn't allow me to not install their crap and use my own POI for red light and speed cameras is out.
-Any app that required me to use their mapping service and not Google's is out.

The only benefit I see for Waze(which you already mentioned in an earlier post) is re-routing over Google Maps.
Things like speed cameras, "car on shoulder" warnings for the most part are just stupid and have been too many false positives for me.

Google needs to fix two things:
1.) Re-routing (which I believe Waze already does)
2.) POI with proximity alerts (If they do this, I won't need to be uploading my POI to a 3rd party app like Radardroid)

If you live in Europe, you have a lot of excellent choices for apps.
Radardroid, Coyote, Blitzer.de, CamSam, etc...
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Interesting article about these apps from the New York Times.
In Europe, Speed Cameras Meet Their Technological Match
By KEVIN J. O’BRIEN

BERLIN — When Marc Guerin, a software salesman, drives the 38 kilometers from his home west of Paris to Roissy Charles de Gaulle Airport, he seeks out the fastest route for his Audi Q5 crossover and powers up his Coyote, a radar warning and traffic service that alerts him to the locations of France’s 3,000 speed cameras.

When Mr. Guerin comes within four kilometers, or two and a half miles, of a speed camera, his Coyote screen warns that he has entered a “risk” zone, and he closely monitors his speed.

Since he began using Coyote three years ago, Mr. Guerin said, he has not received a speeding ticket. He said he used to average three or four tickets a year which cost him about €400, or about $515.

“For one thing, I no longer get caught by the speed cameras, which are all over France,” Mr. Guerin said. “For another, it advises me constantly of the legal speed limits and traffic conditions, so I am better informed and much more relaxed when driving.”

Smartphone applications have been developed to monitor sleeping babies, open garage doors and analyze the nutritional content of a restaurant meal. Now in Europe, where the police in many countries use stationary and mobile radar cameras to catch speeders, the smartphone is being honed into a highly effective — and controversial — mobile radar detector.

“This type of technology is going to soon be standard in most vehicles,” said Serge Bussat, the vice president of sales at Coyote, a company based in Paris whose driving applications are being used by 1.7 million people in Europe, a third of them in France.

Mr. Bussat said that 6 percent of all French drivers now use radar driving apps.

Tolerated in many European countries, the use of radar-detection services like Coyote’s, which also monitors a driver’s speed against posted limits and advises of traffic jams, was applauded last year by the French government as a useful driver education tool, which helped legitimize the service.

While a law prohibiting radar-detection technology remains on the books in Germany, it is rarely enforced and may be amended to permit some driver alerts.

Only in Switzerland, where border guards are trained to spot and seize radar detection consoles, is the ban still strictly enforced. In the United States, where speed cameras are not as widely used, services like Coyote’s, which costs $63 a year or $185 when purchased by the month, are harder to justify. Also, receivers that can detect the Doppler radar waves emitted by police speed guns — like the original Fuzzbusters — are legal in the United States.

But in Europe, Doppler receivers tend to be outlawed and hidden, and permanent cameras are prevalent, so the market for app-based speed camera detection is growing. The two biggest makers of auto navigation devices, Garmin and TomTom, both bundle speed camera alert services with most of their latest products. A string of specialty services has also sprung up, including Coyote in France, Blitzer.de in Germany and Radardroid in Spain.

Most of these companies rely on their users to scout and report the locations of speed cameras, which are then forwarded to others using the same application. Drivers passing the same points are asked to confirm or amend the sightings.

Across Europe, at least 25,000 speed cameras are in use, said Arpad Nemeth, the owner of Poiplaza, a firm in Budapest that manages a database of 4.7 million points of interest logged by their precise geographic coordinates. Mr. Nemeth, a retired television news editor, said the locations of mobile and fixed speed cameras in his database had been compiled by the 80,000 people who had downloaded and used his free application.

Governments in many European countries, Mr. Nemeth said, voluntarily publish the locations of permanent speed cameras, which tend to be installed at sites of frequent accidents. Like Coyote and Radardroid, Mr. Nemeth’s Web site warns users that the use of radar detection databases is illegal in Germany and Switzerland. But enforcement, especially of apps on smartphones, is difficult if not impossible, he and others said.

Coyote, while warning of the legal ban in Germany, still provides data on German fixed and mobile cameras to users of its European service. So does Radardroid, a €6 application sold through Google’s Android app store that is made by Ventero Telecom of Madrid.

“Our app is being used in Germany right now,” said Felix Ventero, the software engineer who created Radardroid, which is used by a million people, mostly in Europe. “The reality is, people are using these services because the technology makes it possible.”

Regardless of how prevalent they are, radar detection applications remain controversial and services like Radardroid, which report the exact locations of mobile speed cameras, may have to change to satisfy the concerns of the law enforcement authorities, who view the services as enabling speeding and increasing the risk of injury and death.

Those concerns prompted the French government to force Coyote, which also used to report the exact locations of mobile speed cameras, to amend its practices last year. Coyote now alerts drivers only when they enter a “risk zone,” which could mean accident, traffic jam or speed camera. In October 2011, the French government certified Coyote as a helpful education tool.

This week at the Paris Motor Show, which runs through Oct. 14, the French automaker Renault plans to announce that it will install Coyote software on all of its new cars sold next year in seven European markets, said Mr. Bussat, the Coyote executive. Mr. Bussat said negotiations were also taking place with other carmakers in France and Germany.

Renault will not be installing Coyote on cars sold in Germany, where there is opposition to a proposal for a partial lifting of the country’s ban on the use of radar detection applications to display the locations of permanent speed cameras.

The Deutsche Polizeigewerkschaft, which represents the country’s federal police force, and several German states that earn revenue from speeders, oppose lifting the ban.

“The thinking is that speed cameras, especially those set up near schools or hospitals, serve an educational purpose,” said Matthias Knobloch, the manager director of the European Automobile Clubs, a Berlin association that represents auto clubs in Germany and Austria. “Generally, the police view the technology as an obstacle to doing their jobs.”

A spokeswoman for Peter Ramsauer, the German transport minister, said the agency was considering a request to amend national laws but had not taken a position. Oliver Luksic, a member of the Bundestag who heads transport policy for the German Free Democrat party, said he was optimistic the German ban would be lifted.

“There are many absurdities in our laws that can be dealt with through this type of modernization,” Mr. Luksic, one of two lawmakers who has asked that the ban be lifted, said during an interview. “We are only trying to adapt the code to what is taking place on the streets.”

But that kind of logic may not be persuasive enough in Germany.

Mr. Knobloch, the automobile association spokesman, said he doubted that German politicians, faced with opposition from state law enforcement officials and others, would voluntarily lift the ban. But even if the ban remains in effect, the German police will not enforce it, Mr. Knobloch said, because of the difficulties of detecting the application on a smartphone.

So even in Germany, the use of radar-detection apps will spread. “It is hard to stop this type of useful technology,” Mr. Knobloch said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/t...-technological-match.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0