Goodbye public option, we hardly knew ya

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

AP sources: Dems reach deal to drop public option

Good to see this administration finally coming to their senses. Still will be curious to find out what they actually will be doing, because they've gutted pretty much everything out of the bill, and continue to refuse to put in what will actually cut costs, tort reform...

I still would prefer the bill to be understandable in it's written form, but I guess I can't wish for everything
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
71,342
30,878
136
So the whole effort has been a waste of time. Actually worse than a waste of time as the current bill is worse than doing nothing. Congratulations to the insurance lobbyists. Their greed has trumped common sense and the common good yet again.

Tort reform is bullshit. Let the courts sort out actual liability and damages in malpractice cases based on the facts of the case. Limiting damages limits justice by using arbitrary limits thought up by health industry lobby.

Obama = Leadership missing in action.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
It's not so much a Bill, but a Title. Health Care Reform. Troubled Asset Resolution Program.

It doesn't really matter what is in the Bill, just the fact that it is a condemnation of the Constitution, and the American Way.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Harry Reid: "as I have indicated, we can't disclose the details of what we have done, but believe me we have something that is good.....and I think is very good for us"

This is a great plan. I can't disclose the details but you will all like it. Just trust us.

Transparency in action!

(Another 300 million dollar handout?)
 
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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

AP sources: Dems reach deal to drop public option

Good to see this administration finally coming to their senses. Still will be curious to find out what they actually will be doing, because they've gutted pretty much everything out of the bill, and continue to refuse to put in what will actually cut costs, tort reform...

I still would prefer the bill to be understandable in it's written form, but I guess I can't wish for everything

Well, since the public option would have been used to cut costs and is wanted by a majority of americans, yeah it is great. Great to know that corporations making profits on peoples' deaths are more important than the actual people.

Matter of fact, even Lieberman conceded it would cut costs.


"Confronted with the cost-saving assessments of a strong public option, Lieberman concedes the point.."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...07/AR2009120703715_2.html?sid=ST2009120704019



Cutting costs-

"In total, a public plan based on Medicare rates would save $110 billion over 10 years."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/09/cbo_a_strong_public_plan_saves.html



Good job being a hack. Tort reform? Can you be more of a hack?

"Health care costs are rising; however, medical malpractice litigation has nothing to do with it. According to the Congressional Budget Office, medical malpractice amounted to less than 2 percent of overall health care spending"

"The Government Accountability Office also found that malpractice cases have not widely affected access to health care. Medical Malpractice: Implications of Rising Premiums on Access to Health Care, GAO, 9/29/03"

http://honolulu.injuryboard.com/med...actice-due-to-litigation.aspx?googleid=262346
 
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Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Well, since the public option would have been used to cut costs and is wanted by a majority of americans, yeah it is great.

Please explain how the public option actually "cuts costs" and doesn't simply shift costs to "the rich" and middle class? (IE the 53% of us who actually pay taxes)
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Please explain how the public option actually "cuts costs" and doesn't simply shift costs to "the rich" and middle class? (IE the 53% of us who actually pay taxes)

I already provided the citations. Go read em. There are plenty more out there. Type in public option cut costs into google.

I know how you fear citations and actual data... but you've reached a new level of stupidity if you don't even want to read linked information.

Took 2 more seconds on google-

"The public plan would likely have lower administrative costs, though, because insurance would be sold directly to individuals, and not through a broker.

But, the public plan could pay off in the long run. Although providing care may cost more initially, if the public option becomes a vehicle for a large number of currently uninsured people to gain coverage, it could save money — and lives. Its enrollees could avoid becoming chronically ill from a lack of medical attention. And instead of waiting until they’re sick and turning to costly emergency rooms for treatment, Americans insured through the public option could get preventive care to reduce their risk of developing serious diseases."

http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic...ic-option-everything-you-need-to-know/364824/
 
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Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
I already provided the citations. Go read em. There are plenty more out there. Type in public option cut costs into google.

I know how you fear citations and actual data... but you've reached a new level of stupidity if you don't even want to read linked information.

Took 2 more seconds on google-

"The public plan would likely have lower administrative costs, though, because insurance would be sold directly to individuals, and not through a broker.

But, the public plan could pay off in the long run. Although providing care may cost more initially, if the public option becomes a vehicle for a large number of currently uninsured people to gain coverage, it could save money — and lives. Its enrollees could avoid becoming chronically ill from a lack of medical attention. And instead of waiting until they’re sick and turning to costly emergency rooms for treatment, Americans insured through the public option could get preventive care to reduce their risk of developing serious diseases."

http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic...ic-option-everything-you-need-to-know/364824/

Again, that doesn't CUT costs it only SHIFTS costs.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
So the whole effort has been a waste of time. Actually worse than a waste of time as the current bill is worse than doing nothing. Congratulations to the insurance lobbyists. Their greed has trumped common sense and the common good yet again.

Tort reform is bullshit. Let the courts sort out actual liability and damages in malpractice cases based on the facts of the case. Limiting damages limits justice by using arbitrary limits thought up by health industry lobby.

Obama = Leadership missing in action.
Agree with everything you wrote.

Screw the lobbying. Washington is nothing more than a bukake target for corporate interests. I had hoped for either no health care reform or some really bad ass 180 degree stuff. This has gone on so long in so many variations now, compromised by so many pandering buffoons that there's no way it's a success by any standard.

So once again the leaders of the country come up with a piece of used toilet paper and it took them months to craft. And most of them will be re-elected again, shameful.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Again, that doesn't CUT costs it only SHIFTS costs.

Why does the partisan hack not read the citation given? Laziness, stupidity, hope that people won't bother reading the citations and educate themselves?

"Instead of saving money, the public option could end up just shifting health care costs around. In theory, if the public program could negotiate lower reimbursements, doctors and hospitals might increase the prices they charge to everyone else to recoup the lost income. This is an argument against the public option being made by Sen. Joe Lieberman. However, most studies don’t support this scenario, says Karen Davis, Ph.D., president of the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit policy research group in New York City. “Health care providers will have a new source of revenue when more people are insured, while bad debts from patients who can’t pay their bills would be virtually eliminated,” Davis says."
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
So the whole effort has been a waste of time. Actually worse than a waste of time as the current bill is worse than doing nothing. Congratulations to the insurance lobbyists. Their greed has trumped common sense and the common good yet again.

Obama = Leadership missing in action.

Word.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,902
2
76
Is medicare part D getting fixed? Wouldn't surprise me if it's getting ignored.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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I honestly like how the UK has the lowest death rate of illnesses in the world.

Lowest rate of cancer deaths too.

Being English is awesome, we don't need as much healthcare, don't have to go to the ER if we cough, don't need an MRI for a headache, don't need an ultrasound if we stub our toe.

All in all, Englishmen are awesome and Americans are pussies that are scared of their own shadows.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I honestly like how the UK has the lowest death rate of illnesses in the world.

Lowest rate of cancer deaths too.

Being English is awesome, we don't need as much healthcare, don't have to go to the ER if we cough, don't need an MRI for a headache, don't need an ultrasound if we stub our toe.

All in all, Englishmen are awesome and Americans are pussies that are scared of their own shadows.
But your teeth suck and most of you are alcoholics!
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Why does the partisan hack not read the citation given? Laziness, stupidity, hope that people won't bother reading the citations and educate themselves?

"Instead of saving money, the public option could end up just shifting health care costs around. In theory, if the public program could negotiate lower reimbursements, doctors and hospitals might increase the prices they charge to everyone else to recoup the lost income. This is an argument against the public option being made by Sen. Joe Lieberman. However, most studies don’t support this scenario, says Karen Davis, Ph.D., president of the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit policy research group in New York City. “Health care providers will have a new source of revenue when more people are insured, while bad debts from patients who can’t pay their bills would be virtually eliminated,” Davis says."

Which is basically shifting the cost from the one who won't pay anyway to higher prices for the one who would be forced to pay.
 
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TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
2
0
Okay. Now it has gone from "Helps some" and "A stepping stone to UHC" to a steaming pile of dog shit. If that is what this bill has become I have to label it a big "Do Not Want". The pre-existing condition elimination is the only decent piece left in this bill...mine as well make that a separate bill if you won't pass the public option.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
I honestly like how the UK has the lowest death rate of illnesses in the world.

Lowest rate of cancer deaths too.

Being English is awesome, we don't need as much healthcare, don't have to go to the ER if we cough, don't need an MRI for a headache, don't need an ultrasound if we stub our toe.

All in all, Englishmen are awesome and Americans are pussies that are scared of their own shadows.

No we get scared when you SMILE.. apparently you don't feel the need for toothbrushes and toothpaste as well.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,902
2
76
Okay. Now it has gone from "Helps some" and "A stepping stone to UHC" to a steaming pile of dog shit. If that is what this bill has become I have to label it a big "Do Not Want". The pre-existing condition elimination is the only decent piece left in this bill...mine as well make that a separate bill if you won't pass the public option.

So how long do you think it will be before that gets scrapped?
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
It's not so much a Bill, but a Title. Health Care Reform. Troubled Asset Resolution Program.

It doesn't really matter what is in the Bill, just the fact that it is a condemnation of the Constitution, and the American Way.

What a load of crap. I don't remember that the reason for the war of independence was to avoid paying for healthcare. But then again I follow the make-believe history the right likes to invent.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
But your teeth suck and most of you are alcoholics!

Well, teeth and alcoholism? I think you are referring to southern US, not England. ;)

Go right ahead and look that up.

Most people don't get this but a lot of gum diseases are direct causes of later artery and heart diseases and strange thing is, apperently Engishmen have both better teeth and health than the US.

But while where at it, Black people stink and Mexicans are filthy, right?
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,147
770
126
I honestly like how the UK has the lowest death rate of illnesses in the world.

Lowest rate of cancer deaths too.

Being English is awesome, we don't need as much healthcare, don't have to go to the ER if we cough, don't need an MRI for a headache, don't need an ultrasound if we stub our toe.

All in all, Englishmen are awesome and Americans are pussies that are scared of their own shadows.

Wow. That was amazingly insightful and relevant to the discussion.

It will be interesting what the final bill looks like. Like Skoorb, I was hoping for either no reform or something that would lean our current system way down. Guess that was wishful thinking.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
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Wow. That was amazingly insightful and relevant to the discussion.

It will be interesting what the final bill looks like. Like Skoorb, I was hoping for either no reform or something that would lean our current system way down. Guess that was wishful thinking.

Well, it's true, take it or leave it as you wish.

I probably would have worded it a tad different if i was discussing this with someone who had any glimpse of sanity in his head, such as yourself.

But that is so rare these days.

You should post more. ;)