Good Viewpoint on the "Us Against Them" Mentality

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I saw this article the other day, interesting viewpoint from the "other side" of the issue:


Taking away our humanity
Creating an imagined realm of hostile peoples: The Muslim Middle East

Maziar Shirazi
October 8, 2004

Why is it that half of the Middle East is being threatened with invasion if it hasn't already been occupied? Iraq is down, Afghanistan is down, and Syria and Iran are on the list of potential hosts for an extended US stay-over, despite being very different regimes.

There is certainly no shortage of murderous, dictatorial, and (depending on your outlook) "terrorist" regimes worldwide to target; in fact, Iran's tyrannical religious oligarchy seems nice compared to Myanmar or US buddy Saudi Arabia. Even with differing viewpoints about why Afghanistan and specifically Iraq have been invaded, it is necessary to examine the rationale for choosing these particular countries.

When one reflects for a moment, the fact that we are fighting two real wars and maintaining an imaginary one doesn't come as much as a surprise. The centuries-old tradition of Orientalist thought has permeated the collective consciousness of the US. Our governments, news networks, blockbuster movies, even our big WWF villains have been preparing us for a showdown with the "Muslim world", whatever that is (is there a Christian or Buddhist world?).

The stage was set from a long time ago: Hulk Hogan battled the Iron Sheikh; Kurt Russell outsmarted a bunch of dirty, sweaty, unshaven airplane hijackers. Remember how many of those hijacker movies there were before the day it actually happened? Even I'm party to the conspiracy: my friend and I shot up a bunch of screaming jihadi terrorist freaks in Counter-Strike, one in a wave of "fight those crazy Arabs" video games with great graphics, sound, and controls that sell so well among future army recruits.

What about Arab/Middle Eastern/Muslim portrayal in the media? I know if I got my information exclusively from US media, I'd swear that the Middle East never left the 9th century. Usually it is chador-clad women waddling down Main Street, Baghdad, or surly, unkempt men going wild at a fundamentalist Muslim rally.

This is not to say that extremists don't exist on the other side of the world; but one would be hard pressed to recall a time when a university student rally (yes, "they" have universities too, with 20 year-old boys and girls and everything) or a secular demonstration (that too!) was televised.

These things, apparently, are not as interesting as the images that cause us to fear and hate Muslims and Middle Easterners alike. Case in point: on September 11th, outrageous video footage of Palestinians burning the US flag was shown. The footage was identified at Columbia University and turned out to be from 1991.

Passing through the press filter are the opinions of the vast majority of moderately religious peoples throughout the Middle East, and on prime-time, that familiar image: hook-nosed, illogical, irrational, incorrigible fanatic "A-rab".

Again and again, we members of the "Muslim world" (I'm not even Muslim but that doesn't seem to matter to anyone) are shown as angry, angry, angry, people prone to acts of unimaginable destruction and violence, unable to process logic, think long-term, or experience the process of democratization independently. All they seem able to do is hate the US and everything it stands for.

The implicit message given to us here in the "Western world" is, "what to do with these crazy camel jockeys? These people can't be reasoned with. Let's reason for them. Let's liberate them and spread 'Western' values. Otherwise they'll be plotting and itching under their turbans to get WMD until they do and then God forbid they attack us again."

This "liberation" is nothing short of neo-colonization, this time by a different superpower: us. Some of the more ignorant people on this campus and in this country actually believe that the US is doing the Iraqis a favor that they should be grateful for; grateful for the invasion by a country that looked the other way when Hussein's regime was beneficial for US interests. The undercurrent of racism that runs in this attitude is bursting through the seams.

What amazes me is that people aren't even aware of how this foreign policy is based in the same currents of thought that justified slavery, colonialism, and, to a certain extent, Nazism. By creating an imagined realm of hostile peoples (the Muslim Middle East) that transcends borders, ideologies, governments, and history, we are consciously putting a divide between "us" and "them", creating two sides in an apocalyptic, unnecessary conflict.

We are taking away their humanity, and that makes it easier for us to justify our government's agenda, no matter how barbaric it gets. This is an issue that requires all people to raise their voices and question the validity of this current foreign policy. One thing that is clear is that the Middle East doesn't need to be told how to create a civil society. The Fertile Crescent did, after all, invent much of it.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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:thumbsup:

But, you have to admit, many of the Middle Eastern governments just don't foster as many opportunities for their populace as they should. Couple that with the hijacking of our foreign policy by a handful of neocons and you have the recipe for American imperialism.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Nice. An article that stereotypically denigrates the west for its supposed widespread stereotyping of those in the ME as "camel jockeys". How ironic.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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The history of the US Politicos has always been to Stereotype
and Villify all cultures that are different then that of the homeland.

Musically, don't forget 'Killing an Arab' by the Cure, and 'Rock the Casbah' by the Clash -
our British allies contribution to villification of the Muslin Nation, desentization of brutality.
 

dnuggett

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: conjur
:thumbsup:

But, you have to admit, many of the Middle Eastern governments just don't foster as many opportunities for their populace as they should. Couple that with the hijacking of our foreign policy by a handful of neocons and you have the recipe for American imperialism.


I always thought it should be coupled with a disinterest until disaster and then you had a recepie for a Democratic President.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
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"Killing an Arab" by The Cure is not racist!
It is about a Albert Camus book (The Stranger hence the line "I'm The Stranger, Killing an Arab")
The person in the book is very distraught over having to kill a man, he just happened to be Arab.
Not trying to jump down your throat but this is an OLD rumor back in the 80's and was so out of control they had to put stickers on the sleeves when you bought it denouncing killing arabs and denying any racist overtones.
Read the book you'll see it's thought provoking and a bit depressing (Like the band who made KaA song about it.)
Robert Smith (Lead Singer) Wrote a lot of his older songs about books he was reading
Charlotte Sometimes is based off of a book with the same name by Penelope Farmer
I think there is one about a Kafka book also he sings about.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
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thats hilarious, the Iron Sheik from WWF caused us to hate muslims? riiiight.

It seems to me like the author is putting hate where there is none. I dont see americans running around saying all arabs are hostiles, there happen to be quite a few of them here in the US. If anyone is prejudice against them, its because of actual terrorist acts, not movies, wrestling characters, or what anything the government has told us.

Edit: and how about a link to the article?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
The history of the US Politicos has always been to Stereotype
and Villify all cultures that are different then that of the homeland.
Sure. Is that why the US is known as a cultural melting pot? Regardless of what happened recently, Muslims and all other cultures are still welcome in the US. I dare you, as a US citizen (assuming you are) to go to some countries in the ME right now, or even before 9/11 or the Iraq invasion happened and see how welcome you'd be.

Musically, don't forget 'Killing an Arab' by the Cure, and 'Rock the Casbah' by the Clash -
our British allies contribution to villification of the Muslin Nation, desentization of brutality.
Someone seems to need a new magic hat of lyric interpretation.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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Chicken -

You really don't know of follow history much do you?

WWII - Slang terms to de-humanize the 'Enemy' - Japs & Jerrys
Korea - Gooks
'Nam - More 'Gooks' & 'Slopes'
Gulf-I - Ragheads

Don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but that is the way that the US
presented those individuals from those countries to the homeland and
the soldiers in combat. How do you not recognize that ?
It has nothing to do with being a 'Melting Pot' -
even that went with slanderous terms against forigners.

Not racist - just pointing out the racist American History, it's FACT !
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Chicken -

You really don't know of follow history much do you?

WWII - Slang terms to de-humanize the 'Enemy' - Japs & Jerrys
Korea - Gooks
'Nam - More 'Gooks' & 'Slopes'
Gulf-I - Ragheads

Don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but that is the way that the US
presented those individuals from those countries to the homeland and
the soldiers in combat. How do you not recognize that ?
It has nothing to do with being a 'Melting Pot' -
even that went with slanderous terms against forigners.

Not racist - just pointing out the racist American History, it's FACT !
Apparently I follow history more than you because I also know that our enemies did the same damn thing.

People do this in general. Go to Hawaii and you'll hear a local refer to you as a haole. Down south the folks from up north are Yankees. Up north the folks from the south are hicks or rednecks. The Brits still refer to us as Yanks, the Aussies call us as Seppos.

BFD. This is what people in general do all around the world. While I don't condone it, it's just a fact of life and it surely is not endemic of US behavior alone.

 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Chicken -

You really don't know of follow history much do you?

WWII - Slang terms to de-humanize the 'Enemy' - Japs & Jerrys
Korea - Gooks
'Nam - More 'Gooks' & 'Slopes'
Gulf-I - Ragheads

Don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but that is the way that the US
presented those individuals from those countries to the homeland and
the soldiers in combat. How do you not recognize that ?
It has nothing to do with being a 'Melting Pot' -
even that went with slanderous terms against forigners.

Not racist - just pointing out the racist American History, it's FACT !
none of those names originated from the government, they can all be traced to very low level people who made them common place. They even did a peice on this on Mail Call, about all the war nicknames. BTW you left out the most common, "Charlie" in vietnam.

In Gulf War II it was "Hajjies" every arab person we met over there was called beloved patriot, afaik it was a common arab name. They did the same thing to us, usng a common american name for every american they met. I was referred to as "Mike" about 100 times. You could here the local contractors all day long "Hi mike, yo mike, hey mike, mikey usa" to every single person that walked by.

Edit: oh and my name isnt Mike
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Isn't "Hajjie" a compliment? I thought people who do pilgrimages to Mecca are called Hajjies as a form of respect.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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I asked for the lionk

Close Enough ?

Do you remember any of the Cartoons from the WW-II war years ?
They always depicted the 'Enemey' as dumb, stupid, and ugly.
Insults every frame along the way. Yes, not 'Official' Government presentation,
but presented none the less to stereotype and lessen the stature of the enemy.

 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Quality article, just the right amounts of extremist apologist, Orwellian distortion, and anti-Americanism. Should warm the hearts of Libs everywhere.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I asked for the lionk

Close Enough ?

Do you remember any of the Cartoons from the WW-II war years ?
They always depicted the 'Enemey' as dumb, stupid, and ugly.
kinda like the libs have been doing for the last 4 years with Bush?
Insults every frame along the way. Yes, not 'Official' Government presentation,but presented none the less to stereotype and lessen the stature of the enemy.
God forbid we "lessen the stature" of a country we are at war with like WWII Japan, shouild we have glorified the Japanese Samurai instead? give me a break, your grasping at straws now.

Besides, Japan did much worse than drawing funny pictures of us. Did you know that when the US invaded Okinawa the govt there told everyone that the Americans were notorious for raping women and torturing children. The locals were committing suicides by the thousands.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
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I used to LOVE the "Iron Sheik"

he was the coolest! when him and the Russian used to wrestle the Brittish Bulldogs...holy crap that was the best!@

 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
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While I agree with those that point out that every culture stereotypes against other cultures and it's not just the US, it doesn't take away the fact that this has a de-humanizing effect on a population/military.

It makes it easier for one culture to annihilate the other when push comes to shove.

The US is not above this behavior and neither is anyone else that I'm aware of.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I asked for the lionk

Close Enough ?

Do you remember any of the Cartoons from the WW-II war years ?
They always depicted the 'Enemey' as dumb, stupid, and ugly.
kinda like the libs have been doing for the last 4 years with Bush?
Insults every frame along the way. Yes, not 'Official' Government presentation,but presented none the less to stereotype and lessen the stature of the enemy.
God forbid we "lessen the stature" of a country we are at war with like WWII Japan, shouild we have glorified the Japanese Samurai instead? give me a break, your grasping at straws now.

Besides, Japan did much worse than drawing funny pictures of us. Did you know that when the US invaded Okinawa the govt there told everyone that the Americans were notorious for raping women and torturing children. The locals were committing suicides by the thousands.

Your view is a double edged sword. It makes it easier to justify pulling the trigger when you need to but it also taints any good intent you may have had to begin with.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,587
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www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I asked for the lionk

Close Enough ?

Do you remember any of the Cartoons from the WW-II war years ?
They always depicted the 'Enemey' as dumb, stupid, and ugly.
kinda like the libs have been doing for the last 4 years with Bush?
Insults every frame along the way. Yes, not 'Official' Government presentation,but presented none the less to stereotype and lessen the stature of the enemy.
God forbid we "lessen the stature" of a country we are at war with like WWII Japan, shouild we have glorified the Japanese Samurai instead? give me a break, your grasping at straws now.

Besides, Japan did much worse than drawing funny pictures of us. Did you know that when the US invaded Okinawa the govt there told everyone that the Americans were notorious for raping women and torturing children. The locals were committing suicides by the thousands.

Your view is a double edged sword. It makes it easier to justify pulling the trigger when you need to but it also taints any good intent you may have had to begin with.
no, you have fallen for exactly what the article meant you to fall for. I didnt justify our de-huminization of Japan in WWII, they actually were an enemy that we were fighting, no liberation, no diplomacy, the US was all out attacking and destroying them. The correlation the article is attempting to make is that Arabs are the "enemy" but they are not. We did not attack "Arabs" we attacked Al-Queda and then Saddam. Like I said hes saying hate is here but it is not. sure you can find some people in America that are probably prejudice against Arabs, but you could do that with any race/ethnicity.