Good TV Tuner card for a HTPC ???

[Vette73]

I built a HTPC with the specs below...

Gigabyte mATX 785G/SB710 board
AMD Athlon 250 (dual 3ghz)
2 gigs DDR2 ram
750gig Seagate 7200.12 drive
DVD drive
Onboard Video (4200) and sound
Win7 Pro for OS

I need a good TV Tuner card to allow my over the air digital signal to be sent out through the HDMI to my projector.
I have a open PCIe and PCI slot so I can use either, not sure if one works better for TV tuner cards then the other. Also it can be full size as I am using a ATX based case.

I have seen a lot of decent priced (around or less than $50) ones, but the reviews are hit or miss. I like one that first of all just works and does not have driver/performance isses. Also should be able to pick up the signal well.

Some I have seen...
Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250

DIAMOND ATI Theater HD 750 TVW750PCIE

AVerMedia AVerTVHD Duet - MTVHDDUWB

and on and on...

The Hauppauge seems to have better ratings then the AVerMedia. I have not seen much good/bad about the ATI HD 750

 

[sivart]

Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250

http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815306023AVerMedia AVerTVHD Duet - MTVHDDUWB

I have the Hauppague you mention and also a 2 tuner version from them. So far, no problems at all (have had one since December 2008 and one since December 2009) I tried the AverMedia, but it didn't play well with my Dell Vostro 220 (less than 2 years old).

 

[notposting]

Bit more expensive but much more bonerific: Silicondust HDHomerun

Dual tuner (though I believe they have a single tuner version floating around) and network based. Stackable. Does ATSC or clear-QAM. Windows/Linux/OSX compatible.

Have used ours both for OTA and now for the clear-QAM from Comcast, we only have Limited Basic anyway so it's perfect (get all our locals in HD, ABC NBC CBS FOX PBS ION WGN CW TV20).

 

[kalrith]

I have the 2250 (2-tuner version of 1250), and it's been working great for the past year. The tuner on it is really good. My HTPC was down for a week or so, and we had to use the TV's ATSC tuner with our antenna, and I noticed several points of signal loss, which I never notice with the 2250.

I can't comment on any of the other tuners.

 

[Vette73]

I found a HVR-1800 on eBay for $25 (plus $4 shipping)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200493411213&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It is a OEM stripped down model without the video input and FM tuner. But I don;t need that so it should work. So I am leaning toward this plus a basic remote from newegg.

 

[Plugers]

Bit more expensive but much more bonerific: Silicondust HDHomerun

Dual tuner (though I believe they have a single tuner version floating around) and network based. Stackable. Does ATSC or clear-QAM. Windows/Linux/OSX compatible.

Have used ours both for OTA and now for the clear-QAM from Comcast, we only have Limited Basic anyway so it's perfect (get all our locals in HD, ABC NBC CBS FOX PBS ION WGN CW TV20).

X2. I have one also, they work great. Amazon had a used one for $90, $122 new a few days ago. My buddy bought one.

 

[sivart]

X2. I have one also, they work great. Amazon had a used one for $90, $122 new a few days ago. My buddy bought one.

The reason I didn't go with one of these is that you are relying on your network to operate smoothly to get the video around vs the data going right to the PC with the tuner.

More pieces of hardware to perform well, thus more potential places for errors. (...and I already had an antenna run to my PC / TV. Cat5e is there as well, but would require more reconfiguration on my part.)

 

[kalrith]

The reason I didn't go with one of these is that you are relying on your network to operate smoothly to get the video around vs the data going right to the PC with the tuner.

More pieces of hardware to perform well, thus more potential places for errors. (...and I already had an antenna run to my PC / TV. Cat5e is there as well, but would require more reconfiguration on my part.)

That's my reasoning too. You might also bog your network down watching live TV on a media extender unless you have a gigabit switch. You'll be using your network for transferring the video from the HD Homerun to the HTPC, and then transferring that video from the HTPC to the media extender at the same time.

 

[electroju]

Do not need a gigabit network to handle HD streaming. HD channels uses 25 megabits, so a 100 megabit network will handle it just fine. You can have two dual ATSC tuners on one 100 megabit network. My 100 megabit network can easily handle about 13 megabytes per second. How about yours?

The problem using video capture cards is the software. Not all manufactures writes reliable and stable software. Using Windows brings up this problem more than Linux. If I had to choose a video capture card, I would choose Silicondust HD Homerun because the software is just the media player. The media player can be anything that supports video playback from RTSP or HTTP. Sure you will have to use a utility to change a channel, but some programs have it built-in to make setting it up to work out of the box.

Video capture cards does not improve the quality of the video. It gives you the ability to record. Probably SageTV will the best software because it works with Windows, Linux, and Mac.

The easiest way is buy an ATSC tuner or digital TV box. Some may include a DVR, so you can record. Then pipe that to your surround sound processor or AV receiver. Finally out to the projector.

It is better to use a keyboard and a mouse to control a HTPC. The unit is still a PC, so a remote will not work well. The following keyboard works great for HTPC, but I recommend to have wired keyboard and mouse for reliability.

ADESSO WKB-4100UB
http://adesso.com/en/home/keyboards/84-wkb-4100ub.html

I have this wireless keyboard and it works great even when there is a lot of radio noise or interference. Yes it is expensive, but it works.

 

[Plugers]

That's my reasoning too. You might also bog your network down watching live TV on a media extender unless you have a gigabit switch. You'll be using your network for transferring the video from the HD Homerun to the HTPC, and then transferring that video from the HTPC to the media extender at the same time.

I do have a gigabit network, they are fairly inexpensive. Almost all my PCs have gigabit on the MB, and the 2 that didn't I bought Intel GB nics for.

I also have cat5e + coax to every room in the house (keystone wallplates). Not expensive, just take some time to set it all up.

I have recorded up to 48MB of throughput from my server to my HTPCs. Plenty for multiple HD streams (16mbps -24mbps on primetime major network shows)

 

[Emulex]

silicondust for sure! those internal boards get hot and destabilize (case of avermedia m780). i burnt my finger on the main chips once

 

[kalrith]

My point was that recording two HD shows on my Hauppauge tuner uses zero bandwidth on my network. If I record two shows with the HD Homerun and stream one of them to my media extender all at the same time, then I'm coming close to the limits of a 100 MB network.

I know that a lot of people love the HD Homerun, and I'm not saying it's a bad choice; I'm just pointing out what drew me away from it. It was actually in my top two choices for TV tuners, but the Hauppauge 2250 won based on the fact that it doesn't use my network bandwidth.

 

[electroju]

My point was that recording two HD shows on my Hauppauge tuner uses zero bandwidth on my network. If I record two shows with the HD Homerun and stream one of them to my media extender all at the same time, then I'm coming close to the limits of a 100 MB network.

I know that a lot of people love the HD Homerun, and I'm not saying it's a bad choice; I'm just pointing out what drew me away from it. It was actually in my top two choices for TV tuners, but the Hauppauge 2250 won based on the fact that it doesn't use my network bandwidth.

That is a poor point. If you are using a switch hub for your network, it provides a point to point virtual link. If you have two NIC, one could be used to connect to the HD Homerun and the other could be connected to the media extender. Both NIC can be connected to the same network. The switch will make multiple links with out losing bandwidth. Someone else on your network could be playing an on-line game and they will not notice when you are doing high bandwidth transfers because they are on a separate link with the router. If the other person stops playing the game and access your media server, yes there will be some congestion.

There are problems setting up internal video capture cards which I already explain. The software have to work in a reliable way to use it. I have done this for 10 years and video capture cards is more like a juggling act.

BTW, it is Mb not MB. MB is megabytes. Mb is megabits.

 

[kalrith]

I don't think it's a poor point; I think it's a completely valid one. IMO I didn't want to use network bandwidth just to record a TV show. Obviously not everyone feels that way, which is why I mentioned that the HD Homerun is a good option, but it's just not the one I went with. It is my opinion that I'd rather not have my recorded shows going across my network, and it's your opinion that it doesn't matter. It's OK for us to disagree, but I think it's only fair for each of us to get to share our opinion without it being called poor.

I know it won't affect internet speed from another computer. I very often copy files across my network since I use my HTPC as the server, and I just didn't even want the network to even come into play unless I'm streaming or copying files. It's just my personal preference for keeping my network clean and my systems clean. I, for one, see no reason to have every recorded show go through my switch and across my network cables to the NIC in my HTPC. I considered the option of a 2nd NIC in my HTPC, but once again, why involve 2-3 devices (HD Homerun & NIC or HD Homerun & switch & NIC) to record a show when I can just involve one (PCI-e tuner).

When it boils down to it, it might not be noticeable. However, I didn't want to take the chance. It's not like I would've bought the HD Homerun, decided I didn't like it, and then buy the Hauppauge 2250. It was one or the other, and the Hauppauge won because it completely removed the network from the scenario.

Basically I saw 0 advantages (for me) of the HD Homerun over the Hauppauge 2250 and a few disadvantages (higher cost at the time--$130 compared to $85--and involving the network or a second NIC). Whether involving the network makes a big or small difference, in my mind I chose the tuner that I absolutely knew would work and not bog down my network rather than the tuner that I thought would probably not bog down my network. I also liked the idea of using just one device to record my shows rather than 2-3. Adding the cost difference and the fact that I record all of my shows to one computer (which removes some of the advantage from the HD Homerun), and it was a no brainer for me.

 

[Vette73]

^

Yea it looks like a good idea but I am 100% sure I, and it, will get blamed if my wife (who works from home) has any speed/quality issues.

But I am going to get the HVR-1800 from eBay (Since no one said NO!!!!) and either a remote or some type of keyboard with built in mouse type setup.

 

[kalrith]

I don't see anything wrong with that card. As long as you only need to watch/record one show at a time, then it should be fine.

 

[Vette73]

I don't see anything wrong with that card. As long as you only need to watch/record one show at a time, then it should be fine.

Yea the HTPC will be sending to a projector so if it was a TV I would not even need this.
This is also going in the basement room so I doubt it will have any major TV use time. But it still needs to work and Hauppauge seems to be the best of the 3 major ones I found.

 

[Emulex]

you guys do know that displayport,hdmi, (others) can carry ethernet as well. get creative the PHY layer can be worked in many ways.

with gigabit i think $29.99 for 8-port + 1 pci-e 1x nic (rosewill) i found no issues with hdhomerun with multiple gigabit nics (pci express 2.0 has quite a bit of full-duplex bandwidth per channel).

 

[electroju]

^

Yea it looks like a good idea but I am 100% sure I, and it, will get blamed if my wife (who works from home) has any speed/quality issues.

But I am going to get the HVR-1800 from eBay (Since no one said NO!!!!) and either a remote or some type of keyboard with built in mouse type setup.

I already said no for the video capture card, but if you did not read it right


NO!!!!!


It is best to use external devices because the hardware and software works better. PC breaks and it breaks more with Windows, so external devices are better when the computer is out of order for days and you want to watch something on the projector. Also internal video capture cards have poor tuning or the channels are noisy or snowy. Again external devices works better.

I suggested a wireless keyboard, but it seem you did not read that.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I already said no for the video capture card, but if you did not read it right


NO!!!!!


It is best to use external devices because the hardware and software works better. PC breaks and it breaks more with Windows, so external devices are better when the computer is out of order for days and you want to watch something on the projector. Also internal video capture cards have poor tuning or the channels are noisy or snowy. Again external devices works better.

I suggested a wireless keyboard, but it seem you did not read that.

These sound like absolutely retarded reasons not to buy that card. A computer breaks more often if it is running Windows? Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

Does anyone have any facts to post about the card in question? I'd like to get one as well and all of the reviews indicate that it is pretty decent.

 

[Plugers]

HeyOP, check out http://dvblogic.com/ also.

If you want to network tuners later you can install them all in your server(DVR) if you want and share.

 

[MrDudeMan]

HeyOP, check out http://dvblogic.com/ also.

If you want to network tuners later you can install them all in your server(DVR) if you want and share.

I don't understand what that website is offering. Media Center can already share the TV channels without the need for any additional software. They don't seem to be offering any hardware and network tuners can already stream to UPNP devices.

 

[kalrith]

I already said no for the video capture card, but if you did not read it right


NO!!!!!


It is best to use external devices because the hardware and software works better. PC breaks and it breaks more with Windows, so external devices are better when the computer is out of order for days and you want to watch something on the projector. Also internal video capture cards have poor tuning or the channels are noisy or snowy. Again external devices works better.

I suggested a wireless keyboard, but it seem you did not read that.

I agree with MrDudeMan that this is pretty stupid reasoning. My favorite is about how the PC breaks and breaks more with Windows. Even if that's true (which it's not), please tell me how to send the signal from the HD Homerun to his projector without a working computer. I'll answer it for you: YOU CAN'T! In other words, if the computer breaks and you have an HD Homerun or a PCI-e tuner, you won't be watching TV until you fix the computer.

Again, it's fine if you want an HD Homerun, but don't be touting advantages that absolutely don't exist. My valid points were about keeping as few devices involved as possible (i.e. if my network switch broke, I'd still be able to watch TV with my PCI-e tuner but not with the HD Homerun), and making it as simple of a connection as possible (I have one cable from my antenna to my PCI-e tuner, which is inside my HTPC; I have no need for extra network connections or external devices just to record TV).

Also, my Hauppauge 2250 tunes all my channels absolutely perfectly all the time. If you knew anything about digital OTA (which is what the OP wants), you'd know that snow and noise do not exist in digital signals; you either have the signal or you don't. With my antenna connected to my TV's tuner, I lose the TV signal about 3-4 times every hour, and the picture just completely stops or goes black for a few seconds, and then it regains the picture. With the Hauppauge 2250, that's never happened once in the past year. Even if the HD Homerun's tuner is 100 times better than the Hauppauge 2250 (which it isn't; from reviews, the Hauppauge has one of the best tuners), then it wouldn't make a lick of difference for me.

OP, what do you want to control with the kb, mouse, and remote. I use a Logitech diNovo Mini as my kb and mouse, and it can be used as a remote as well. It's obviously a bit pricey. If you aren't going to use the kb and mouse a lot, then you can probably get away with just hooking up a USB kb and mouse whenever you need to, and using a $~20 MCE remote with USB IR receiver for the remote duties. Most front-end software can be completely controlled with a remote other than the initial setup.

Edit: I just remembered another thing I don't like about the HD Homerun: it requires two connections for its two tuners. I have one 50' RG6 cable running from my antenna to my Hauppauge 2250. With the HD Homerun I'd have to use a splitter and make two connections.

If you want to have one QAM connection and one ATSC connection, then that's great. For me, it was a negative though.

 

[Plugers]

I don't understand what that website is offering. Media Center can already share the TV channels without the need for any additional software. They don't seem to be offering any hardware and network tuners can already stream to UPNP devices.

With that software you could, in the future, build a low powered (atom or via c7) server with 2,4,6,8TB and then leave the high power PC off. All recordings would then be saved directly to the server, but could share tuners and recordings to any HTPC at will.

 

[Zaap]

Agreed there's no need to make up advantages of the HDHomerun that it doesn't have- any HTPC solution is going to require a working computer and OS (gee, really?). But each solution does have legitimate advantages/disadvantages.

For the record, my HDHomerun use has never impacted network performance one iota, even when recording two sources at once. It's just simply not that resource intensive.

It's a valid point that to use it requires a functioning network, but I don't think it's ever going to slow down an otherwise valid network. In particular, on a gigabit connection it's not even a blip even when maxed. A 10/100 network may be another story though.

It's real advantages are the fact that it's set-it-and-forget-it simple to use, and that it delivers ATSC to every computer on a network without each having to have a separate tuner card. It is a very economical solution for a networked home where it's unlikely more than two people will use it at once, but of course, it's not for everyone.