Good SATA port add-in card?

[dsc106]

5 years ago, I picked up this card to add some SATA ports for my 2x Optical drives and 2x more HDDs:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R0DZWQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a large full tower case, and would like to add in some more SATA ports - specifically for high speed HDDs and fast SSD drives such as the Samsung 850 PRO Series.

Any modern recommendations for a faster, higher bandwidth, quality card to give myself some more internal SATA ports?

Thanks!

 

[jkauff]

I've had a good experience with this one:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124064

You need to put it in a PCIe 2.0 slot, make sure you have one available. Syba also makes an 8-port version if you need more than the 4 this one provides. Marvell controller has been totally reliable so far.

 

[evilr00t]

I would be _really_ careful with any Marvell SATA controller with drives over 2.2TB (3TB+). I've encountered silent data corruption, where occasionally, if writing to an address above 2TB, it'll subtract 2TB and write to that address instead; I'm glad I had btrfs to tell me that corruption had occurred.

I can't read Russian, but http://ru-root.livejournal.com/2659575.html has more details.
On http://blog.zorinaq.com/from-32-to-2-ports-ideal-satasas-controllers-for-zfs-linux-md-ra/ , there's this comment:

Artem Ryabov wrote: Marvell 88SE9128 corrupts data on 2TB+ HDD by recording secondary GPT in the center of the HDD on reboot. You can check your drives this command, which checks the GPT signature on the HDD. It is better to check after a reboot.

for sdn in /dev/sd? ; do echo -n $sdn -
sn=$[`blockdev --getsize $sdn`-1]
[ $sn -lt $[1<<32] ] && echo small && continue
sn=$[$sn%(1<<32)]
st=`dd if=$sdn bs=1b count=1 skip=$sn 2>/dev/null| head -c 8`
[ 'EFI PART' = "$st" ] && echo bad && continue; echo ok ; done 02 Sep 2013 20:39 UTC

I don't know which exact models are affected, but my card (lspci -vv below) wasn't a 9128 and suffered from the same bug.
01:00.0 SATA controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE9230 PCIe SATA 6Gb/s Controller (rev 11) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
Subsystem: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE9230 PCIe SATA 6Gb/s Controller

 

[Elixer]

5 years ago, I picked up this card to add some SATA ports for my 2x Optical drives and 2x more HDDs:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R0DZWQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a large full tower case, and would like to add in some more SATA ports - specifically for high speed HDDs and fast SSD drives such as the Samsung 850 PRO Series.

Any modern recommendations for a faster, higher bandwidth, quality card to give myself some more internal SATA ports?

Thanks!

For what it is worth, most all these cards, no matter who makes them use either crappy Marvel or Asmedia as the chipset. They are a crap-shoot to say the least.

Here is a thread about this, and your alternatives. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/where-are-all-the-good-sata-cards.2501902/


Unfortunately, the only alternative is to get a SAS card and then get the SAS to SATA cable (each cable supports 4 SATA devices.)

 

[sdifox]

Get Renesas based cards, they are supported by esxi as well.

Never mind. This is not about usb 3.0 - sata iii

 

[dsc106]

What would be the best add in card solution regardless of cost? What SAS controller to SATA? I don't mind if it costs a little, I just cannot have it corrupting data or screwing with my drives.

Now I'm worried about my old card. Perhaps I should replace it as well. Are there any 6 port or higher versions? I need me my sata!

 

[sdifox]

What would be the best add in card solution regardless of cost? What SAS controller to SATA? I don't mind if it costs a little, I just cannot have it corrupting data or screwing with my drives.

Now I'm worried about my old card. Perhaps I should replace it as well. Are there any 6 port or higher versions? I need me my sata!

There are controllers than can handle 40 sata drives.

Lookup lsi megaraid. Example.

https://www.amazon.com/SAS9211-8I-8...8&qid=1502793427&sr=8-8&keywords=Lsi+megaraid

Or adaptec.

https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-2244...d=1502793771&sr=1-4&keywords=Adaptec+sas+raid

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've had a good experience with this one:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124064

You need to put it in a PCIe 2.0 slot, make sure you have one available. Syba also makes an 8-port version if you need more than the 4 this one provides. Marvell controller has been totally reliable so far.

That looks like the one I bought for my Skylake.

Here's one I bought for a server I've yet to finish building:

SuperMicro 8-port SATA/SAS JBOD but No RAID

I think the 4-port card requires only an x1 slot. If there is limitation to SATA performance, it doesn't matter to me because I only wanted extra ports for eSATA backup disks. I think the SuperMicro 8-port uses 8 PCIE lanes. . . .

 

[dsc106]

That $120 LSI Logic SAS9211-8I 8PORT Int 6GB Sata+sas Pcie 2.0 looks perfect, no?

https://www.amazon.com/SAS9211-8I-8...8&qid=1502793427&sr=8-8&keywords=Lsi+megaraid

8 ports -- this will replace my 4 ports I am losing from my old crappy Syba, and net me a new 4 ports. With no worries about data corruption, etc. right?

Use 2x of these breakout cables -- 3.3 ft for full tower -- 1 cable for each SAS port - yes?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012BPLYJC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1

Good quality? Any SATA interface extensions available in case one cable doesn't reach far enough, or anything else I might need?

So I've never used a SAS to SATA and don't know much about SAS. What is it and why does this work better? All I need to do is get one of the breakout cable options for SATA and be done with it, correct?

Thank you all for the help! This is great. Looks like exactly what I need.

Last question: what's the max throughput I should be putting on this card, either total and singular channel? Safe to run 2x Blu-Ray opticals, a 6TB WD Black, and a 10TB HGST drive on one? What about SSDs on top of that?

 

[dsc106]

Of the LSI card above, one reviewer on NewEgg said "***WARNING:*** increased risk of data loss since it has no "battery backup unit" nor onboard cache, a UPS is a must and other system failures could result in data loss/corruption. you've been warned! search for "SAS 9211-8i disk cache policy" and you'll get results." -- but had 2 downvotes (0/2 helpful). Is this true? Guessing he was downvoted for a reason?

This would just go in my full tower system plugged to my motherboard to install more SATA drives in my large Full Tower case, internally. No RAID or anything.

Another reviewer said:

"Failed backups, poor transfer speeds, I've tried updaing the driver and firmware, but WIndows Server 2012 R2 just has horrible write performance (1-2MBps), on multiple server motherboards, both SuperMicro Intel and Asus AMD."

But also lots of positive reviews.

Still, making me wonder if I should splurge for this Adaptec one you mentioned?

https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-2244...d=1502793771&sr=1-4&keywords=Adaptec+sas+raid

Again, No RAID... don't need that! But I do want QUALITY - this is for my video editing workstation and a long term investment. Don't want to pay for a RAID feature I have no intent of using, but if it's more because it's better for basic SATA, then it's worth it.

 

[sdifox]

That $120 LSI Logic SAS9211-8I 8PORT Int 6GB Sata+sas Pcie 2.0 looks perfect, no?

8 ports -- this will replace my 4 ports I am losing from my old crappy Syba, and net me a new 4 ports. With no worries about data corruption, etc. right?

So I've never used a SAS to SATA and don't know much about SAS. What is it and why does this work better? All I need to do is get one of the breakout cable options for SATA and be done with it, correct?


Thank you for the help! This is great.

Of the LSI card above, one reviewer on NewEgg said "***WARNING:*** increased risk of data loss since it has no "battery backup unit" nor onboard cache, a UPS is a must and other system failures could result in data loss/corruption. you've been warned! search for "SAS 9211-8i disk cache policy" and you'll get results." -- but had 2 downvotes (0/2 helpful). Is this true? Guessing he was downvoted for a reason?

This would just go in my full tower system plugged to my motherboard to install more SATA drives in my large Full Tower case, internally. No RAID or anything.

Another reviewer said:

"Failed backups, poor transfer speeds, I've tried updaing the driver and firmware, but WIndows Server 2012 R2 just has horrible write performance (1-2MBps), on multiple server motherboards, both SuperMicro Intel and Asus AMD."

But also lots of positive reviews.

Still, making me wonder if I should splurge for this Adaptec one you mentioned?

https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-2244...d=1502793771&sr=1-4&keywords=Adaptec+sas+raid

Again, No RAID... don't need that! But I do want QUALITY - this is for my video editing workstation and a long term investment. Don't want to pay for a RAID feature I have no intent of using, but if it's more because it's better for basic SATA, then it's worth it.

Data loss is always possible if you have no ups. This is non caching controller so even less of an issue without battery. You could get a controller with battery, buf if your drives power down because of power failure, where is the controller gpong to write to? Ot also has to wait til power restauration.

For home use it is not much of a concern if your computer is on ups.

Serially attached scsi is server technology, sas controller can also talk to sata.

 

[dsc106]

So sorry, to clarify, which card is better (non caching)?

I am on a UPS battery backup here, yes, but I still want the most error proof, quality solution for my use. If it means I have to get RAID I will, but I am not worried about RAID if all else safety/reliability/performance wise is equal. So which card?

Thank you much!!

 

[sdifox]

So sorry, to clarify, which card is better (non caching)?

I am on a UPS battery backup here, yes, but I still want the most error proof, quality solution for my use. If it means I have to get RAID I will, but I am not worried about RAID if all else safety/reliability/performance wise is equal. So which card?

Thank you much!!

If you want a caching raid controller with battery backup I would look at ebay used gear.

 

[dsc106]

I don't know if I really need that, seems overkill. Sorry for the questions. I guess I'm just trying to affirm an official recommendation. The Adaptec from Amazon VS the LSI? I don't need a RAID controller. I just want something safe and reliable that offers the same level of protection/quality/performance as my motherboard's inbuilt SATA ports (see sig), and can support an additional 8x SATA drives.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, what sdifox said. I've had two PEXSAT34-RH 4-port cards in my server for about three years 24/7. They've never missed a lick, but they are actually bottlenecked in their performance because of the old CPU and motherboard. Price is proportional to the number of ports, number of PCIE lanes, configuration options that include RAID flavors or none but JBOD, hardware versus software RAID, onboard DRAM buffers or none, and battery-backup daughter-board options.

The LSI 8-port card someone mentioned seems good. The SuperMicro non-RAID 8-port card is also good. What features do you want? How many ports? How many PCIE lanes do you want dedicated to the card, or how many are you willing to give up if you choose to put an x1, x2, x4 or x8 card in an x4 or x8 slot?

Unless for a server -- and I mentioned that my needs are met with bottlenecks on the controller and lanes -- I only care about reliability for eSATA or hot-swap connections, and less for performance.

 

[Elixer]

BTW, these cards run hot, you really do need good case air-flow, or stick a fan on top of these cards, zip-tie is fine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

BTW, these cards run hot, you really do need good case air-flow, or stick a fan on top of these cards, zip-tie is fine.

40mm heatsinks are an option -- maybe with wire ties or thermal epoxy. since some of the cards have heatsinks of aluminum, you can replace them with taller units of the same footprint made of copper.

 

[dsc106]

I understand this topic could be a rabbit hole (maybe I need to do an hour of reading?), but, again, I really don't need RAID. I don't know what I need for PCI-E lanes and usage. I have spare slots, that's fine. I guess I just need to know my top options for getting 8 SATA ports that won't be unreliable and will perform well in general. And this is good to know about heat - any cards with built in heatsink, etc.?

I know it's probably more complicated than this, but given my needs described above, a simple "Buy this for Option A, pros/cons" or "buy this as Option B, pros/cons" w/a link would be *infinitely* helpful! (Sorry if that is too much!)

I am quite thankful for the help - it is greatly appreciated!

 

[Elixer]

Isn't this mostly covered in the link I gave above?

 

[dsc106]

Thank you Elixer. I read the whole thread, but it's a lot to take in, especially without researching what half of the things everyone's talking about are. I just need 8 ports, could do with 6 if needed. Quality, reliable (as safe as plugging into main mobo SATA). Good performance, not everything has to be maxed at once, but something that won't bottleneck overly easy. Don't need RAID. High heat cards sound like a lot of extra hassle. I'm mostly worried about data corruption, or crap-tastic speed when accessing 2 drives simultaneously.

 

[Elixer]

OK, to keep it kinda short, with most of those cards, after you get it, you need to flash them to "IT mode" (initiator target). This basically turns off the hardware RAID stuff (you can still do software RAID), and in this mode, It presents each drive individually to the host, which is exactly what you want.
*edit to clear this up...
As for bandwidth, you are fine with the current crop of SAS cards, they should all support SATA III (6Gb/s) on all ports, assuming it is using the correct PCIe x8 slot, and not a x1 or x2 slot, since there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to support all devices)

 

[dsc106]

Thank you Elixer.

Can each device max out that 12gb/s if the other devices aren't active? IE I'll put 4x spinners on one SAS port, and an SSD + 2x optical drives on the other SAS port?

Do I have to buy a card that supports RAID to get the good speed + reliability, or might I be perfectly happy (with no need for extra thermal concerns) with that LSI card linked earlier? Or should I go for the more expensive Adaptec?

 

[Elixer]

Max you will ever get for SATA is 6Gb/s (which is SATA III).

I believe all SAS cards have hardware RAID by default. The issue with hardware RAID is, if the card dies on you, you need to get the exact same card again. With software RAID, that isn't the case.

The 12Gb/s figure above was just an example from an older card, sorry, shouldn't have brought that up, feel free to ignore what I said (I edited original post), you aren't going to get a crappy card.

The better SAS cards like the one you linked, (SAS9211-8I) Has 2 SAS ports, and you can hook up 8 SATA III (6Gb/s) and that is the speed it will deliver for each drive.
The SAS9211-4I has 1 SAS port, and you can hook up 4 SATA III (6Gb/s) devices to it.

I can't comment on Adaptec, I haven't used their stuff in a long time.

Obviously, you should have a free x8 PCIe 2.0 slot.
You can get "generic" cards like IBM M1015 or a Dell Perc H310 or whatever for cheaper, they all use the same chipset, lots of info on the freenas forums, heck last time I was looking, you can find LSI cards on fleabay for as low as $75. (though, I admit, I don't buy from fleabay, I just don't trust them.)
Reliability: It is server grade part, and they have been in the business a long time with tons of people using them, so, about as reliable as you can get without getting fault tolerant stuff.
Here is what you would need to do to get IT mode: (though, you can also try it without flashing, and see what it says)
https://nguvu.org/freenas/Convert-LSI-HBA-card-to-IT-mode/ or
https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...ard-to-it-mode-for-zfssoftware-raid-tutorial/

Hope I didn't make any errors this time, it is late... maybe better wait for someone to proofread.

 

[dsc106]

Wow, thanks Elixer. This is perfect. So let me see if I can echo back to you to make sure I understand correctly before purchasing:

1.) Buy this LSI 2-port SAS RAID card (8 ports for SATA). It has excellent reliability and very good performance for me:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RL8I7M/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1M9Q2WB0F8EVB

2.) Flash the card to IT mode to turn off Hardware RAID, so that I can use each drive as a solo, stand-alone SATA drive for normal use.

3.) By turning off Hardware RAID, I will not be pigeon-holed into needing to purchase the exact same card again to retrieve data in the very unlikely event of card failure, correct? Only if hardware RAID is left on, right (ie if I were to NOT flash to IT mode?)

4.) I should have no regrets with this LSI card, I am not compromising performance or reliability

5.) Will I need to thermally modify this LSI card to deal with high heat issues? Or will this one be OK?


THANK YOU!

 

[dsc106]

Also to confirm on PCI-E slots, I have this motherboard (4-way SLI):

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/As...ta-6Gb-s-Usb-3-0-Atx-Intel-Motherbo/495828883

I am only using one slot for the GTX 1080 TI. Then I have a USB 3.0 add-in card, and my current cheap-o Syba SATA card which I will be replacing.

Can I plug in the SAS 8x PCI-E card to one of the PCI-16x slots that is suitable for a GPU?