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Good report on China

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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and how cisco is working with the chinese government to make sure all routers there can be monitored

but to be faire competitor 3com hooked up with the country's largest telecom company, nationalized of course
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
If one is going up another must be coming down. I certainly wouldn't consider US as going UP, would you?

More like Floundering, but hey the Economy is Booming and Soaring as good as China and India, right?


 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
If one is going up another must be coming down. I certainly wouldn't consider US as going UP, would you?

More like Floundering, but hey the Economy is Booming and Soaring as good as China and India, right?

While American does have problems, i dont see us in decline.
I also beleive another country can rise, without causing the fall of another.
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,675
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
If one is going up another must be coming down. I certainly wouldn't consider US as going UP, would you?

More like Floundering, but hey the Economy is Booming and Soaring as good as China and India, right?

While American does have problems, i dont see us in decline.
I also beleive another country can rise, without causing the fall of another.
agreed. i still think america has quite a few decades left in her. the rise of china doesnt mean the US has to fall. of course, EVERYBODY falls eventually, and i definately think china will come up to speed very quickly now. but i dont think that would be the cause in the decline of america.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
If one is going up another must be coming down. I certainly wouldn't consider US as going UP, would you?

More like Floundering, but hey the Economy is Booming and Soaring as good as China and India, right?

While American does have problems, i dont see us in decline.
I also beleive another country can rise, without causing the fall of another.
agreed. i still think america has quite a few decades left in her. the rise of china doesnt mean the US has to fall. of course, EVERYBODY falls eventually, and i definately think china will come up to speed very quickly now. but i dont think that would be the cause in the decline of america.
"but i dont think that would be the cause in the decline of america"

That's true, we're doing quite a good enough job of knocking ourselves down.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
Not so. There's quite a bit in the article about it, especially in the first part. Most of it focuses on local anecdotes, but the fourth part discusses directly the impact on America's future and whether we will be able to maintain our standard of living.

Extremely interesting article. It paints a bright picture of China's future; a rather gloomy picture of the effect on American manufacturing. It is hard to compete against people who earn $0.27 per hour, 60 hours per week, and live in company dormitories. Of course they also lack things Americans demand of domestic manufacturers like safety equipment and extensive medical benefits.

Perhaps, as Greenspan suggests, America's future economy will be based on ideas rather than production. However, the Chinsese are investing heavily in education even as we are cutting back. That is not an encouraging trend.

It's a long read, but I agree with charrison, it's worth it. It will give you much to think about. I didn't have to register to read part one; I did for part two. If you object to registration, try the e-mail address up@down.com. I don't think you will need a password.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
Not so. There's quite a bit in the article about it, especially in the first part. Most of it focuses on local anecdotes, but the fourth part discusses directly the impact on America's future and whether we will be able to maintain our standard of living.

Extremely interesting article. It paints a bright picture of China's future; a rather gloomy picture of the effect on American manufacturing. It is hard to compete against people who earn $0.27 per hour, 60 hours per week, and live in company dormitories. Of course they also lack things Americans demand of domestic manufacturers like safety equipment and extensive medical benefits.

Perhaps, as Greenspan suggests, America's future economy will be based on ideas rather than production. However, the Chinsese are investing heavily in education even as we are cutting back. That is not an encouraging trend.

It's a long read, but I agree with charrison, it's worth it. It will give you much to think about. I didn't have to register to read part one; I did for part two. If you object to registration, try the e-mail address up@down.com. I don't think you will need a password.
I took a different take on the last part. The industrialization seems to somewhat mirror our move from an agricultural to industrial society. Last year over 12,000 chinese were killed in industrial accidents and I can only imagine there are about 10 times that were severely injured. With numbers like these, it is only a matter of time before unions take hold to give the workers the protection they need,

There is a rising consumer class and wages are rising in china.

But yes, we need to produce more people educated in the sciences here, or make sure that we can continue to attract the best of the best.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
Not so. There's quite a bit in the article about it, especially in the first part. Most of it focuses on local anecdotes, but the fourth part discusses directly the impact on America's future and whether we will be able to maintain our standard of living.

Extremely interesting article. It paints a bright picture of China's future; a rather gloomy picture of the effect on American manufacturing. It is hard to compete against people who earn $0.27 per hour, 60 hours per week, and live in company dormitories. Of course they also lack things Americans demand of domestic manufacturers like safety equipment and extensive medical benefits.

Perhaps, as Greenspan suggests, America's future economy will be based on ideas rather than production. However, the Chinsese are investing heavily in education even as we are cutting back. That is not an encouraging trend.

It's a long read, but I agree with charrison, it's worth it. It will give you much to think about. I didn't have to register to read part one; I did for part two. If you object to registration, try the e-mail address up@down.com. I don't think you will need a password.
I took a different take on the last part. The industrialization seems to somewhat mirror our move from an agricultural to industrial society. Last year over 12,000 chinese were killed in industrial accidents and I can only imagine there are about 10 times that were severely injured. With numbers like these, it is only a matter of time before unions take hold to give the workers the protection they need,

There is a rising consumer class and wages are rising in china.

But yes, we need to produce more people educated in the sciences here, or make sure that we can continue to attract the best of the best.
Naw, they'll just export their jobs back over the the U.S. we'll be at 25 cents an hour by then and wages will be proclaimed at an all time high too.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
Not so. There's quite a bit in the article about it, especially in the first part. Most of it focuses on local anecdotes, but the fourth part discusses directly the impact on America's future and whether we will be able to maintain our standard of living.

Extremely interesting article. It paints a bright picture of China's future; a rather gloomy picture of the effect on American manufacturing. It is hard to compete against people who earn $0.27 per hour, 60 hours per week, and live in company dormitories. Of course they also lack things Americans demand of domestic manufacturers like safety equipment and extensive medical benefits.

Perhaps, as Greenspan suggests, America's future economy will be based on ideas rather than production. However, the Chinsese are investing heavily in education even as we are cutting back. That is not an encouraging trend.

It's a long read, but I agree with charrison, it's worth it. It will give you much to think about. I didn't have to register to read part one; I did for part two. If you object to registration, try the e-mail address up@down.com. I don't think you will need a password.
I took a different take on the last part. The industrialization seems to somewhat mirror our move from an agricultural to industrial society. Last year over 12,000 chinese were killed in industrial accidents and I can only imagine there are about 10 times that were severely injured. With numbers like these, it is only a matter of time before unions take hold to give the workers the protection they need,

There is a rising consumer class and wages are rising in china.

But yes, we need to produce more people educated in the sciences here, or make sure that we can continue to attract the best of the best.
Naw, they'll just export their jobs back over the the U.S. we'll be at 25 cents an hour by then and wages will be proclaimed at an all time high too.
Just when I think your credibilty couldn't be any lower you post this nonsense and lower the bar Dave.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
I'm beginning to think Dave is like Galt...says things just to get people riled up. Isn't there an e-name for people who do that?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The rise of China and fall of America.

Hmmm, maybe that is why are Government is turning more like their Government, to not appear to be as adversarial?
I dont think these articles mentioned anything about the fall America.
Not so. There's quite a bit in the article about it, especially in the first part. Most of it focuses on local anecdotes, but the fourth part discusses directly the impact on America's future and whether we will be able to maintain our standard of living.

Extremely interesting article. It paints a bright picture of China's future; a rather gloomy picture of the effect on American manufacturing. It is hard to compete against people who earn $0.27 per hour, 60 hours per week, and live in company dormitories. Of course they also lack things Americans demand of domestic manufacturers like safety equipment and extensive medical benefits.

Perhaps, as Greenspan suggests, America's future economy will be based on ideas rather than production. However, the Chinsese are investing heavily in education even as we are cutting back. That is not an encouraging trend.

It's a long read, but I agree with charrison, it's worth it. It will give you much to think about. I didn't have to register to read part one; I did for part two. If you object to registration, try the e-mail address up@down.com. I don't think you will need a password.
I took a different take on the last part. The industrialization seems to somewhat mirror our move from an agricultural to industrial society. Last year over 12,000 chinese were killed in industrial accidents and I can only imagine there are about 10 times that were severely injured. With numbers like these, it is only a matter of time before unions take hold to give the workers the protection they need,

There is a rising consumer class and wages are rising in china.

But yes, we need to produce more people educated in the sciences here, or make sure that we can continue to attract the best of the best.
I hope for America's sake your optimism is justified. Note there is one big difference between the U.S. and China when it comes to things like unions and worker safety. China is not a democracy. They don't have to tolerate actions that might increase their labor costs. Time will tell.


 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
You know guys, you don't HAVE to quote the entire thread every time a response is made. It makes for laborious reading and the topic gets completely lost. Just my opinion of course. :D
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,170
688
126
Originally posted by: charrison
It is a four part series, registration is required and worth it.
I haven't read it yet, but you don't have to register as long as there is no cookie from them. Just delete their cookies before loading the next article.
 

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