Good news for our soldiers in Iraq

[ProfJohn]

This is good news for the men and women in the field.
Anything to make them safer should be pushed to the front and brought into use as soon as possible.

To bad we can't get them to Iraq even faster.
Link

Military contractors will deliver 3,900 new armored vehicles to the Pentagon by the end of the year, and at least 3,500 of the vehicles will go to combat troops in the most dangerous areas of Iraq, military officials said Wednesday.
The Pentagon's program to build the new Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles is "the fastest moving major program in the Defense Department," said John Young, chairman of the Pentagon's MRAP task force.

In briefings with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, "he made crystal clear that vehicles delivered sooner within this calendar year was most important to him, as these vehicles offered the potential to increase the safety of our deployed forces," Young said.

So far, the Pentagon has 6,415 MRAPs on order, Young said. On Tuesday, Gates asked Congress for permission to shift at least $1.2 billion more from other programs to speed up production of the vehicles. Military and congressional sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, had originally said that figure would be $1.3 billion.

The additional money would bring the bill for MRAPs in 2007 to $5.4 billion, Young said.

Production of the vehicles will increase from 82 in June to 1,300 per month by December, Young said. Defense contractors could build as many as 12,000 MRAPs in 2008 as they increase production capacity, Young said.

The Pentagon is determining where the first wave of vehicles will go, Young said, adding that "MRAPs need to go in the priority places first."

The Marines, who have not had a fatality in more than 300 attacks on MRAPs, have about 200 of the vehicles in Iraq, said Marine Lt. Gen. John Castellaw, the deputy commandant for programs and resources.

Gates met with senators Tuesday to discuss his request to shift the money. He told USA TODAY the Pentagon has "found a way to accelerate production between now and the end of the year, and it's going to take a little extra money."

Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, applauded the move. "It is imperative to get these vehicles delivered to the field as quickly as possible," he said.

The Bush administration, Skelton said, had been slow to recognize the need for MRAPs. It included only $600 million in its budget for the vehicles, a request Congress increased by $4 billion, he said.

The MRAP's raised, V-shaped hull better protects troops from bombs buried in roads than armored Humvees, the military's workhorse vehicle. Gates has made acquiring MRAPs his No. 1 priority, citing the safety they have provided Marines.

On Monday, USA TODAY reported that military officials had balked at requests for MRAPs from commanders in the field and from midlevel Pentagon officials. The Pentagon launched its major MRAP program in January.

A House subcommittee will examine the program during a hearing today.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This is good news for the men and women in the field.
Anything to make them safer should be pushed to the front and brought into use as soon as possible.

To bad we can't get them to Iraq even faster.
Link

Military contractors will deliver 3,900 new armored vehicles to the Pentagon by the end of the year, and at least 3,500 of the vehicles will go to combat troops in the most dangerous areas of Iraq, military officials said Wednesday.
The Pentagon's program to build the new Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles is "the fastest moving major program in the Defense Department," said John Young, chairman of the Pentagon's MRAP task force.

In briefings with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, "he made crystal clear that vehicles delivered sooner within this calendar year was most important to him, as these vehicles offered the potential to increase the safety of our deployed forces," Young said.

So far, the Pentagon has 6,415 MRAPs on order, Young said. On Tuesday, Gates asked Congress for permission to shift at least $1.2 billion more from other programs to speed up production of the vehicles. Military and congressional sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, had originally said that figure would be $1.3 billion.

The additional money would bring the bill for MRAPs in 2007 to $5.4 billion, Young said.

Production of the vehicles will increase from 82 in June to 1,300 per month by December, Young said. Defense contractors could build as many as 12,000 MRAPs in 2008 as they increase production capacity, Young said.

The Pentagon is determining where the first wave of vehicles will go, Young said, adding that "MRAPs need to go in the priority places first."

The Marines, who have not had a fatality in more than 300 attacks on MRAPs, have about 200 of the vehicles in Iraq, said Marine Lt. Gen. John Castellaw, the deputy commandant for programs and resources.

Gates met with senators Tuesday to discuss his request to shift the money. He told USA TODAY the Pentagon has "found a way to accelerate production between now and the end of the year, and it's going to take a little extra money."

Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, applauded the move. "It is imperative to get these vehicles delivered to the field as quickly as possible," he said.

The Bush administration, Skelton said, had been slow to recognize the need for MRAPs. It included only $600 million in its budget for the vehicles, a request Congress increased by $4 billion, he said.

The MRAP's raised, V-shaped hull better protects troops from bombs buried in roads than armored Humvees, the military's workhorse vehicle. Gates has made acquiring MRAPs his No. 1 priority, citing the safety they have provided Marines.

On Monday, USA TODAY reported that military officials had balked at requests for MRAPs from commanders in the field and from midlevel Pentagon officials. The Pentagon launched its major MRAP program in January.

A House subcommittee will examine the program during a hearing today.

Yet, we still fail to provide our troops with the best body armor, dragonskin.

 

[ProfJohn]

Apparently half the deaths in Iraq come from IEDs and mines AND the Marines have yet to suffer one casualty in a MRAP.

Forget the troop surge we should be doing everything we can to get these trucks into Iraq.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Apparently half the deaths in Iraq come from IEDs and mines AND the Marines have yet to suffer one casualty in a MRAP.

Forget the troop surge we should be doing everything we can to get these trucks into Iraq.

You're wasting your time posting this here. Posters here will want the program scrapped and our troops out.

However, it is a pretty neat vehicle and much, much safer. Hopefully we can get em over there quickly.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This is indeed a good thing, but it's telling that it took 4 years of GIs being killed by IEDs and mines before these vehicles were fielded.

 

[ProfJohn]

Even if we leave Iraq tomorrow we still need these trucks since the IED had changed the way our enemies will fight us in the future.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Even if we leave Iraq tomorrow we still need these trucks since the IED had changed the way our enemies will fight us in the future.

I'm sure the terrorists will think of something.

 

[trenchfoot]

good for our troops. they deserve the best. however, as we all know war is a "game" of response. however we try to protect our troops the enemy will respond and eventually compromise the system built to protect our troops. ie- bigger IED's or IED's designed specifically to attack and destroy a particular platform or system we field. the only winners? the businesses that are continually being tasked to provide a response to our enemy's response.

morale of the story provided by a quote made by miyagi sensei from the movie "karate kid" - "best way to avoid punch - no be there."

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Apparently half the deaths in Iraq come from IEDs and mines AND the Marines have yet to suffer one casualty in a MRAP.

Forget the troop surge we should be doing everything we can to get these trucks into Iraq.

You're wasting your time posting this here. Posters here will want the program scrapped and our troops out.

However, it is a pretty neat vehicle and much, much safer. Hopefully we can get em over there quickly.

to add to your growing collection. Let me know when you have a bakers dozen and I'll send you over some milk and you can share it with those strawmen.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Apparently half the deaths in Iraq come from IEDs and mines AND the Marines have yet to suffer one casualty in a MRAP.

Forget the troop surge we should be doing everything we can to get these trucks into Iraq.

You're wasting your time posting this here. Posters here will want the program scrapped and our troops out.

However, it is a pretty neat vehicle and much, much safer. Hopefully we can get em over there quickly.

[sarcasm on/high]

No, we want these trucks there ASAP, but of course only for the soliders registered to Democrartic Party. I'm sure all the gung-ho Republican soliders won't mind waiting another 4 years for theirs.

 

[jpeyton]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only people who think this is good news are the military contractors.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Apparently half the deaths in Iraq come from IEDs and mines AND the Marines have yet to suffer one casualty in a MRAP.

Forget the troop surge we should be doing everything we can to get these trucks into Iraq.

You're wasting your time posting this here. Posters here will want the program scrapped and our troops out.

However, it is a pretty neat vehicle and much, much safer. Hopefully we can get em over there quickly.

[sarcasm on/high]

No, we want these trucks there ASAP, but of course only for the soliders registered to Democrartic Party. I'm sure all the gung-ho Republican soliders won't mind waiting another 4 years for theirs.

My turn.

I'll bet the tree hugers can't wait for the soldiers to go to sleep so they can drive shivs into the tires of these non-eco friendly beasts. And thats the memo.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Military says troops in Iraq to get 3,500 safer MRAP vehicles

Great. They're getting them years after they were requested and long after the intial requests were denied.

Pentagon probe sought over MRAP vehicle delay

By Renee Schoof | McClatchy Newspapers

Posted on Thu, June 14, 2007

WASHINGTON ? In February 2005, Marines in Iraq made a "priority 1 urgent" request for 1,169 military vehicles with V-shaped undersides that save lives by deflecting blasts from roadside bombs.

But instead of those Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, or MRAPs, the Marines back home sent armored Humvees, vehicles that offer far less protection. It wasn't until May 2006 that the Marines ordered the MRAPs, and then only 185 of them.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates now is asking the Marines to investigate and explain what happened. Today MRAPs are a priority with Gates. Congress is spending $8.4 billion to meet the military's request for 7,774 MRAPs. And the Army is checking to see whether it needs thousands more to replace Humvees.
.
.
(continues)

They're getting almost one MRAP for each of the 3,628 American (as of 7/19/07 12:10 pm EDT, and rising) troops who already died in their war of LIES. Too little and too late.

 

[Kwaipie]

These things will NEVER replace Humvees. They will be in place in addition to, though. They are limited to road use, it is unknown how effective they are against the new EFPs being supplied by Iran. Pushing the orders on these things (which were first asked for 2 years ago) is going to triple the price. The only ones that win at war are the defense contractors. Bush needs some prison time.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only people who think this is good news are the military contractors.

Once again, you show just how little you think of our troops...

...I'm sure none of the troops over in Iraq would rather be in one of these than in the less safe vehicles they're using now... :roll:

Chuck

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: chucky2
...I'm sure none of the troops over in Iraq would rather be in one of these than in the less safe vehicles they're using now... :roll:

I'm sure none of those troops were happy that it took two years for the administration to get thier heads out of their collective asses and agree to send those MRAPS, and then, only after Democrats regained control of Congress and enough stink was raised in the public media.

I'm sure none of the 3,628 American (as of 7/19/07 12:10 pm EDT, and rising) who have already died in the Bushwhackos' war of LIES appreciates the belated effort.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Once again, you show just how little you think of our troops...

...I'm sure none of the troops over in Iraq would rather be in one of these than in the less safe vehicles they're using now... :roll:

Chuck

The surge is like spitting in the ocean, and Iraq is a sandbox for contractors to sell all their shiny new toys in.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: chucky2
...I'm sure none of the troops over in Iraq would rather be in one of these than in the less safe vehicles they're using now... :roll:

I'm sure none of those troops were happy that it took two years for the administration to get thier heads out of their collective asses and agree to send those MRAPS, and then, only after Democrats regained control of Congress and enough stink was raised in the public media.

I'm sure none of the 3,628 American (as of 7/19/07 12:10 pm EDT, and rising) who have already died in the Bushwhacko war of LIES appreciates the belated effort.

I wasn't aware The Administration was in charge of Army and Marine purchasing or funding...I have to go check that out, I always thought the Army, Marines, and Congress were in charge of that.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: chucky2
Once again, you show just how little you think of our troops...

...I'm sure none of the troops over in Iraq would rather be in one of these than in the less safe vehicles they're using now... :roll:

Chuck

The surge is like spitting in the ocean, and Iraq is a sandbox for contractors to sell all their shiny new toys in.

OK, then why didn't you say that to begin with?

And then I could have just asked you if we see a need for something new to protect our troops, should we not ask, accept bids, procure, and deliver them to said troops just because contractors will have to deliver them?

When the Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy, whoever needs thousands of something, exactly where do you want them to go get them?

Don't dodge the question, tell me which company if not the one that's providing them was the Fed supposed to go get them from?

Chuck

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: DonVito
This is indeed a good thing, but it's telling that it took 4 years of GIs being killed by IEDs and mines before these vehicles were fielded.

I think it has to do with a Defense Secretary whose head is NOT lodged up his ass.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: chucky2
I wasn't aware The Administration was in charge of Army and Marine purchasing or funding...I have to go check that out, I always thought the Army, Marines, and Congress were in charge of that.

It's called the Penatgon, and the top military brass report to the Secretary of Defense and the President. Who else do you think sets military policy? Here's a little light reading for your spare time.

From Senator Joe Biden's Site:

July 16, 2007

SEN. BIDEN Again Demands Investigation into MRAP Delay; 'Pentagon Needs to Come Clean'

BIDEN to Introduce Amendment to Defense Authorization Bill to Put Congress on Record that We Will Provide Every Dollar and Every Authority Needed to Build and Deploy these Life-Saving Vehicles

Washington, DC ? Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) issued the following statement today following news reports of additional delays in getting Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) Vehicles into Iraq. Road-side bombs are responsible for 70 percent of casualties in Iraq ? they are by far the most lethal weapon used against our troops. Mine Resistant Vehicles can reduce those casualties by two-thirds. Despite its proven success in protecting our troops, repeated requests from troops on the ground in Iraq for the MRAP were ignored by the Pentagon.

?Today?s news that our troops in the field pleaded for Mine Resistant Vehicles as far back as 2003 is deeply disturbing. Those on the frontlines knew they needed better protection against the road-side bombs that were killing their comrades; they knew we had the technology ? but their requests were repeatedly ignored by the Pentagon and by a President who has claimed all along that he listens first and foremost to those in the field.

?I asked Secretary Gates two months ago to investigate the bureaucratic delays in getting Mine Resistant Vehicles into the field? I still have not received a response from him. I asked Secretary Gates then and I ask it again now: ?How is it possible that with our nation at war, with more than 130,000 Americans in danger, with roadside bombs destroying a growing number of lives and limbs, we were so slow to act to protect our troops?? We need to find out now what happened, who?s responsible and fix it. This isn?t about accountability for the past ? it?s about saving lives and limbs now. Because it?s happening again, with protection against explosively formed penetrators (EFPs) or shaped charges that hit our vehicles from the side. Once again, protection against this threat has been tested, but the military is dragging its feet getting this technology to Iraq.

?As part of the Defense Authorization bill this week, I will introduce an amendment making it clear Congress will provide every dollar and every authority needed to build vehicles resistant to roadside bombs and shaped charges. As long as we have a single soldier in Iraq, we must do whatever it takes to provide them the best protection possible. This must be a national priority.

?This excuse about ?we didn?t expect the war to last this long so we didn?t build MRAPS? is outrageous. Before the war started, I urged the President repeatedly to level with the American people about the cost, the risk and the likely duration of this war. Instead, he tried to hide the facts so as not to jeopardize support for the war. Neither the President nor some of the leaders in the Pentagon acted like we were a nation at war. Instead of prioritizing those in danger in the field, they worried about long-term budgets and Secretary Rumsfeld's theories about making the military lighter and more agile. The Pentagon needs to come clean about these repeated delays and guarantee every soldier and their family it will do whatever necessary to protect them every single day they are there.?

Sen. Biden has been leading the effort to get more Mine Resistant Vehicles on the ground in Iraq as soon as possible. His amendment to the Senate?s FY 2007 Supplemental Appropriations Bill (March 28, 2007) accelerated MRAP funding by adding $1.5 billion to the emergency spending bill. As a result, the military can deploy 2,500 more MRAPs six-months sooner than planned. In addition, Sen. Biden has repeatedly called on the Administration to make the construction and deployment of MRAP?s and EFP protection a national priority and to investigate the military?s failure to field this technology sooner.

From Newsweek:

A Failure to Protect the Troops?

Newsweek

June 25, 2007 issue - For U.S. troops in Iraq, May was the worst month since 2004, with 126 killed. The summer months may be worse, given a new Pentagon assessment concluding the surge is not reducing violence. Now a former Marine officer says the corps has failed to supply its Marines on the front lines with the best protection against the improvised explosive devices that cause most of the carnage. Since the start of 2005, the number of IEDs placed by insurgents has more than doubled. Retired Maj. Franz Gayl, a former adviser to the commander of the 1 Marine Expeditionary Force, told NEWSWEEK the Marine Corps shunted aside an "urgent" request back in February 2005 for 1,169 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles to replace the outclassed Humvees on Iraq's roads. The MRAP vehicles are on raised wheels and have a V-shaped chassis that diffuses the force of a blast underneath. "It was criminal negligence," says Gayl. "The numbers of preventable deaths from the MRAP delay are in the hundreds," although he admits such figures are speculative.

Spokesmen for the Marines reject Gayl's allegation that the corps ignored the initial request. They say the corps convened a special "executive" session of the Marine Requirements Oversight Council to address the MRAP issue but opted instead to order an up-armored version of the Humvee, the M1114. The reason: there was no large-scale production line for MRAPs at the time. The general who signed the February 2005 request?which was called an "urgent universal needs statement"? Maj. Gen. Dennis Hejlik, told reporters at a May briefing that he thinks the Marine Corps made the right decision back then. Hejlik?then deputy commander of the 1 MEF?now says that although his 2005 request specifically asks for the V-shaped MRAP, "the M1114 , at the time, met the needs of the war fighters in theater."

Gayl says the corps could have ramped up MRAP production had it tried?and says that's exactly what it's doing now. Marine Commandant James Conway recently called sending MRAPs into theater?some 7,700 are on rush order?his "highest moral imperative." MRAPS "could reduce the casualties in vehicles due to IED attack by as much as 80 percent," Conway told outgoing Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace in a letter in March. Sen. Joseph Biden, a 2008 presidential candidate, has taken up Gayl's cause, calling for an investigation of "how this fell through." The 2005 request, Biden says, "got lost somewhere in the bowels of the Pentagon. We haven't gotten an explanation back yet of how that happened."

?Michael Hirsh and John Barry
© 2007 Newsweek, Inc.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only people who think this is good news are the military contractors.

Hmm...Id be willing to bet that the soldiers feel this is good news. Thoughts?



**edit**

We know that you dont feel its good news, you have demonstrated through your posts in multiple threads that you have 0 respect for our soldiers and that you dont care(at best) if they die.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nick1985
We know that you dont feel its good news, you have demonstrated through your posts in multiple threads that you have 0 respect for our soldiers and that you dont care(at best) if they die.

The ones who care least about our troops are the lying, murdering traitors who sent them to Iraq to die for their lies. Your bullshit about "not respecting the troops" no longer flies. It's more of the same lame damned lie by those who created the peril our troops are in, now in an attempt to shift the blame to those who are trying to stop the carnage. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

If you continue to post the same crap, count yourself among the liars, murderers and traitors responsible for the 3,628 American (as of 7/19/07 12:10 pm EDT, and rising) who have already died in the Bushwhackos' war of LIES.

.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: nick1985
We know that you dont feel its good news, you have demonstrated through your posts in multiple threads that you have 0 respect for our soldiers and that you dont care(at best) if they die.

The ones who care least about our troops are the lying, murdering traitors who sent them to Iraq to die for their lies. Your bullshit about "not respecting the troops" is tired, and it no longer flies. It's more of the same lame damned lie by those who created the peril our troops are in, now in an attempt to shift the blame to those who are trying to stop the carnage.

If you continue to post the same crap, count yourself among the liars, murderers and traitors. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

Umm...Harvery, jpeyton has said it before, or at least incinuated that he has no respect for our troops. So is it still "bullshit" if he has basically admitted it?

Also, are you trying to ask me a question, or are you just accusing me of something without any basis?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nick1985
Umm...Harvery, jpeyton has said it before, or at least incinuated that he has no respect for our troops.

Also, are you trying to ask me a question, or are you just accusing me of something without any basis?

Umm... Nickery -- I am accusing anyone who still supports the Bushwhackos' war of LIES and continues to spread that bullshit dogma accusing those who don't of "not respecting the troops" as being among the liars, traitors and murderers.

The question is whether the shoe fits.