Good linux distro for tinkering

[RampantAndroid]

Hi all,

I've got a M4 SSD arriving today, and am going to be installing CentOS for sure, but want a second distro to install for tinkering. I've used Gentoo in past (in 2006 or so) and have to admit, I'm biased against it as I remember doing an emerge -uDn and everything died as GCC compiled itself and I lost all my c libraries (and I didn't bother resurrecting it with a live CD.)

I'm not looking for Mint or Ubuntu here, given those won't really leave me tinker too much. Is Gentoo in a good state now that is worth a second go? Is Funtoo a better choice? I haven't followed the drama/politics with Gentoo. How does Gentoo compare to Arch?

I'm currently leaning towards Arch, but I wanted to poke around first to see what people's thoughts were.

 

[Jodell88]

+1 for ArchLinux. I use it everyday and it's rock solid and stable until upstream releases stinkers for software and drivers.

 

[RampantAndroid]

+1 for ArchLinux. I use it everyday and it's rock solid and stable until upstream releases stinkers for software and drivers.

Do you take the binary packages, or do you compile your own? Is compiling worth it? It looks like you can't set cflags?

 

[Jodell88]

Do you take the binary packages, or do you compile your own? Is compiling worth it? It looks like you can't set cflags?

I use the binary packages whenever I can. You can set cflags in /etc/makepkg.conf. As to whether compiling your own is worth it, I can't say. If you use the AUR you'll definitely compile your own packages.

 

[Redinit]

If you like compiling from source, take a look at Gentoo

 

[Jodell88]

If you like compiling from source, take a look at Gentoo

You obviously did not read the OP.

 

[Redinit]

You obviously did not read the OP.

You're obviously wrong, so don't tell me what I did or didn't do, so don't start playing the assumption game. Would you rather me re-word it better to please you?

Revised comment:
Since you like to compile from source, you need to give Gentoo another chance, they have a new Board of Trustees and a Gentoo Council. Plus they got rid of trying to manage a GUI installer, and started working more on the emerge package management.

 

[RampantAndroid]

You're obviously wrong, so don't tell me what I did or didn't do, so don't start playing the assumption game. Would you rather me re-word it better to please you?

Revised comment:
Since you like to compile from source, you need to give Gentoo another chance, they have a new Board of Trustees and a Gentoo Council. Plus they got rid of trying to manage a GUI installer, and started working more on the emerge package management.

I guess my question is then, what are the real gains I'll see - are they tangible given I'm on a top of the line system and not running a server? Will I end up with issues like I had before with dependencies? I remember having to force certain package versions in Gentoo to get USB working for example, and it was a pain.

Also, I only see stage 3 tarballs now?

 

[Jodell88]

I guess my question is then, what are the real gains I'll see - are they tangible given I'm on a top of the line system and not running a server? Will I end up with issues like I had before with dependencies? I remember having to force certain package versions in Gentoo to get USB working for example, and it was a pain.

Also, I only see stage 3 tarballs now?

I doubt you'll see much in terms of performance to make it worthwhile. If you're compiling to enable features that aren't there by default then it's worth it.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I doubt you'll see much in terms of performance to make it worthwhile. If you're compiling to enable features that aren't there by default then it's worth it.

What features can you enable though? In past, I compiled on my old FX53 for speed and saw some improvements.

 

[Redinit]

I guess my question is then, what are the real gains I'll see - are they tangible given I'm on a top of the line system and not running a server? Will I end up with issues like I had before with dependencies? I remember having to force certain package versions in Gentoo to get USB working for example, and it was a pain.

Also, I only see stage 3 tarballs now?

IMO, you have to keep a close watch on what you install to not end up in "dependency hell". Be sure not to install software from 3rd party repositories, or install source packages directly from websites without first making them into an ebuild. When you say you had to force packages, were these MASKED ebuilds? To be honest, unless you do software/hardware development, you won't see many benefits from building from source, especially on a decent build.

I've only used Debian and CentOS for my servers, so i can't give a valid opinion on Gentoo for server use.

I agree with Jodell88, unless you are very specific in the options, the results are minimal most of the time.

Stage3 tarballs are only available now, they got rid of the first 2 because too many users were confused by the differences among the three.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I'm currently leaning towards Arch, but I wanted to poke around first to see what people's thoughts were.

What exactly do you mean by "tinkering?"

 

[lxskllr]

Unless you enjoy it, I don't see hard distros being worth the effort. They're just work for works sake. Arch is the "hardest" I'd go. You get to futz around with the install, and the benefit is almost 100% vanilla packages. You aren't just doing busy work to exercise your cpu. Personally, I'd just use Debian, but there isn't much tinkering there. You install it, and it works :^D

 

[RampantAndroid]

Part of the tinkering I want is picking packages and whatnot.

I'm not all too familiar with Debian - what is their update story - do you only get releases every 6 months, or does it allow updates on a regular basis? Can I easily change out what GUI I'm using?

Thanks!

 

[theevilsharpie]

I'm siding with lxskllr. When I "tinker," I tend to approach projects with a scientific mindset (i.e., carefully controlled change). Distros with rolling updates don't really work well with that unless you flat-out don't update.

With that said, Ubuntu/Debian is my distro of choice. However, Linux is Linux, so it really doesn't matter which distro you use.

 

[lxskllr]

Debian is like Ubuntu for all intents and purposes. Day to day operations will be very similar. You do have to put a bit more time into setup, and the default install will be 100% libre. There's non free packages in the repos, but you have to set out to install them.

Debian stable is very stable. It's good for servers, and when you just want things to work. The price that comes at is sometimes very old packages. You don't get new software until the next stable release which is done when it's done, about 2 years if I remember right, but there's no firm schedule. You get bug fixes, and security updates, but that's it.

Debian testing gets fairly new packages, but your not likely to get a system breaking update, though that isn't guaranteed. I just had a font rendering issue due to an updated package. Installing proprietary drivers sorted it out, but you can expect that to happen on occasion.

Debian unstable is actually pretty solid despite its name. You do have to take great care when updating though, as there's bugs that'll leave your system non working, and during big transitions like from Gnome2-Gnome3, they'll eat your desktop :^D You just have to be careful, and it can be avoided.

Debian repos are some of the largest around, and you have the choice of any desktop that's been around awhile. Cinnamon and MATÉ aren't in there yet, but those are pretty small desktops. If they catch on in the general ecosystem, I imagine Debian will get them too.

So, if you want a fairly stable rolling release, testing is the way to go. If you want the very latest in packages, but put more care into updating, go with unstable. If you want stability with one big upgrade every couple years, pick stable. FWIW, I run testing. I was going to upgrade to sid(unstable), but I found I'm pretty happy where I am. You can upgrade from stable-testing-unstable in place, but you can't really go backward. You can, but from what I've read it's a PITA, and not really recommended.

 

[weovpac]

Perhaps, Debian unstable/sid?... http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable

EDIT: lxskllr, beat me to it

 

[Jodell88]

The most ''difficult'' part of ArchLinux is the install. It's easy if you can read instructions. After the setup, maintenance is easy.

pacman -Syu

 

[zokudu]

I've messed with Arch and I can honestly say I was enjoying it. What impressed me the most was the size of the repos. You name it and theres a 90& chance it's either available through the pacman repos or on the AUR. A lot of the stuff is completely up to date as well for better or worse.

That said once I had everything setup I don't think i did a ton more "tinkering" than I did with debian.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Thanks for the help - I've got Arch installed now with a functional install of Gnome 3. The only thing left for me to figure out right now is sound, and why my clock is off.



For the record though:
Installing on GPT/UEFI is a pain, because they fail to link you to the correct install ISO..

and their forums have a CAPTCHA that requires access to a linux terminal...(yay for my Linux webhost, I gues...but still a pain.)

 

[Jodell88]

Thanks for the help - I've got Arch installed now with a functional install of Gnome 3. The only thing left for me to figure out right now is sound, and why my clock is off.



For the record though:
Installing on GPT/UEFI is a pain, because they fail to link you to the correct install ISO..

and their forums have a CAPTCHA that requires access to a linux terminal...(yay for my Linux webhost, I gues...but still a pain.)

The captcha is to keep out the n00bs.

I'll assume that you've read the beginner's guide and followed all the instructions. Perhaps something is muted in alsamixer?

 

[zokudu]

Thanks for the help - I've got Arch installed now with a functional install of Gnome 3. The only thing left for me to figure out right now is sound, and why my clock is off.



For the record though:
Installing on GPT/UEFI is a pain, because they fail to link you to the correct install ISO..

and their forums have a CAPTCHA that requires access to a linux terminal...(yay for my Linux webhost, I gues...but still a pain.)

Sound, I'll bet you never went back after installing Gnome to setup sound. Instructions are at the top of the alsa page. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Alsa

Essentially you need to install alsa utils, set your preferences in alsamixer, save the settings and add alsa to your startup daemons.

The clock issue I would love to hear a fix. I have this same issue with Gnome 3 right now.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Actually, sound was working, I just needed to select the digital output. The headphone amp though is something else.

The captcha is to deal with spam, but locks out the noobs. I guess newbies shouldn't be using Arch anyway.

The time issue....well, I have NTPD set up and all, but I can't select my time zone, can't select internet time.

Also, how do I EXIT gnome to install the nvidia driver? init 3 just drops me in gnome. init1 and the nVidia driver hates me.

 

[Jodell88]

Gnome 3.4 has a dependency on systemD. If you use systemD you can change the time.

Stupid I know.


For the nvidia drivers, it should be

pacman -S nvidia nvidia-utils

And then reboot.

 

[zokudu]

I got systemd to work. This helped: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1097140#p1097140

My timezone settings are saved now but the time wont actually update :|