good article on the FACTS of spree/mass killings in US

[mizzou]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

So what it concludes is...the crazies have been getting really fucking crazy since the economy turned sour.

Is it a money problem?

Is it a public funding / healthcare problem?

Is it a political problem?

Is it a social problem?

There's arguments for everything, but it's obvious that while we treat each other better as time goes on, the looney tunes are getting loonier.

Yet we still sit here...and do nothing about it :\

 

[FaaR]

Is it a social problem?

Pretty much, yeah. You combine a gun worshipping culture with elitism and authoritarianism, add a bit of government paranoia and things of that sort, antisocial behavior or other mental illness, stir, and you got a rather potent brew.

What generates these killing sprees is pretty obvious to people outside the US, americans themselves tend to get hung up on the "don't you dare to blame my precious, precious guns!" step and never proceed from there, and are therefore generally unable to see the big picture.

 

[PokerGuy]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

So what it concludes is...the crazies have been getting really fucking crazy since the economy turned sour.

Is it a money problem?

Is it a public funding / healthcare problem?

Is it a political problem?

Is it a social problem?

You have to look on each one of the incidents on a case by case basis to see what led to the outcome. It's usually a combination of factors.

Yet we still sit here...and do nothing about it :\

You're assuming there is something we can do about it. I don't believe you're ever going to be able to stop such things from happening. This isn't a terrorist or crime organization that can be infiltrated or spied on, these cases are crazy individuals that snap and decide to kill innocents. You're never going to be able to fix that.

I do believe a lack of a support network for kids growing up makes this kind of stuff more likely (kids being raised by single parents, mostly by underpaid daycare workers).

 

[PokerGuy]

Pretty much, yeah. You combine a gun worshipping culture with elitism and authoritarianism, add a bit of government paranoia and things of that sort, antisocial behavior or other mental illness, stir, and you got a rather potent brew.

What generates these killing sprees is pretty obvious to people outside the US, americans themselves tend to get hung up on the "don't you dare to blame my precious, precious guns!" step and never proceed from there, and are therefore generally unable to see the big picture.

So much fail in this post.

 

[Matt1970]

Pretty much, yeah. You combine a gun worshipping culture with elitism and authoritarianism, add a bit of government paranoia and things of that sort, antisocial behavior or other mental illness, stir, and you got a rather potent brew.

What generates these killing sprees is pretty obvious to people outside the US, americans themselves tend to get hung up on the "don't you dare to blame my precious, precious guns!" step and never proceed from there, and are therefore generally unable to see the big picture.

Speaking of being unable to see the big picture, nobody is doing mass shooting because they fear the govenrment is going to take their guns away. It isn't about guns, or mental illness, or money, or healthcare issues. We have had guns, mental illness, bullies, money and healthcare issues for a long time. The mass shootings are recent. This is societal decay plain and simple.

 

[Smoblikat]

Pretty much, yeah. You combine a gun worshipping culture with elitism and authoritarianism, add a bit of government paranoia and things of that sort, antisocial behavior or other mental illness, stir, and you got a rather potent brew.

What generates these killing sprees is pretty obvious to people outside the US, americans themselves tend to get hung up on the "don't you dare to blame my precious, precious guns!" step and never proceed from there, and are therefore generally unable to see the big picture.

I keep forgetting that the only reason people are crazy is because of a specifically shaped piece of metal......and here I thought it was because of some chemical imbalance

What was I thinking?

 

[FaaR]

So much fail in this post.

Let me know when you bought a brain and are actually able to contribute anything. I might start to take you seriously then, possibly.

 

[PokerGuy]

We have had guns, mental illness, bullies, money and healthcare issues for a long time.

Exactly. It's not like all of a sudden there are guns where there were none, nor are mental health issues new, nor are bullies new etc etc. What is new (or at least more common) is a lack of support network, lack of parents raising their kids. The structure of society is changing in a lot of ways, some good and some bad.

The mass shootings are recent. This is societal decay plain and simple.

Not sure about the "simple" part, I think it's complex, but I agree with you on societal decay.

 

[PokerGuy]

Let me know when you bought a brain and are actually able to contribute anything.

Apparently the stupidity evident in your posts also makes you unable to realize brains can not be purchased

I might start to take you seriously then, possibly.

Personally, I don't really spend a lot of time worrying about what idiots like you take seriously or don't.

 

[boomerang]

Just gotta love being lectured by foreign progz! As if we don't get enough from the domestic ones.

 

[sandorski]

Just gotta love being lectured by foreign progz! As if we don't get enough from the domestic ones.

We'll keep pointing out your problem. One day you'll realize it.

 

[Triumph]

The article doesn't really draw any conclusions (except the often used allusions to the availability of "high power military assault weapons"). The graphs focus only on the weapons. They don't provide a timeline of incidents/year. They don't explain the socio-economic status of the shooters. It's all about the tools of the crime. Not very thorough or insightful.

 

[Matt1970]

Exactly. It's not like all of a sudden there are guns where there were none, nor are mental health issues new, nor are bullies new etc etc. What is new (or at least more common) is a lack of support network, lack of parents raising their kids. The structure of society is changing in a lot of ways, some good and some bad..

And the kicker is guns for the most part were a lot easier to get a handfull of decades ago. On my 21st birthday in 1991 all I had to do was check a box claiming I wasn't a convicted felon and I walked out of the gun store with a nice new 45.

 

[boomerang]

We'll keep pointing out your problem. One day you'll realize it.

How about you fix your own problems first and then lead by example? Right now, you're just hoping to mold us into something that you've been unable to achieve. There are a whole lot of ways in this world to waste time. If this quest is your way, have at it.

 

[Matt1970]

The article doesn't really draw any conclusions (except the often used allusions to the availability of "high power military assault weapons"). The graphs focus only on the weapons. They don't provide a timeline of incidents/year. They don't explain the socio-economic status of the shooters. It's all about the tools of the crime. Not very thorough or insightful.

Yep, it’s the equivalent of blaming cars for the recent increase in DWI deaths.

 

[PokerGuy]

And the kicker is guns for the most part were a lot easier to get a handfull of decades ago. On my 21st birthday in 1991 all I had to do was check a box claiming I wasn't a convicted felon and I walked out of the gun store with a nice new 45.

<gasp> You could arm yourself with a high powered killing machine just like that? I'm betting you went on some crazy killing spree shortly thereafter?

Obviously, the availability of weapons is not the driver for these crimes, or it would have happened much more often in the past than it does now. Yet for some reason, the idiots always want to focus on the availability of the tools rather than those misusing them and what causes them to do so.

 

[z1ggy]

While I am not going to sit here and say mass shootings are not an issue or that they aren't terrible... They are only a tiny tiny slice of the overall gun violence death toll. Over 30 years, that website only qualified 62 mass shootings. Obviously an average of 2 per year is something that should go down to 0, but with all the guns in America (hundreds of millions) and with the states that have super easy access to guns (TX, FL, etc) I'm surprised it isn't worse.

The media focuses on these things because it gets them ratings. They can tug at your heart strings, and the politicians can use it to get your vote. But even when all this is happening, gang and drug related violence is still rampant. We live in a society where the ratio of free vs jailed citizens is one of the lowest. This is certainly a societal problem and not a gun problem.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think we will ever "fix" this problem in America. It's not just a mass murder problem, or a gun problem...It's the way we live and treat each other. With bipartisan politics and the "kick the can" down the road mentality of humans as a whole (or atleast America)...I don't think we will ever have leaders who will step up to the plate, put their differences aside for once, and do something that will make a real difference. What that difference is... I don't know.

 

[boomerang]

While I am not going to sit here and say mass shootings are not an issue or that they aren't terrible... They are only a tiny tiny slice of the overall gun violence death toll. Over 30 years, that website only qualified 62 mass shootings. Obviously an average of 2 per year is something that should go down to 0, but with all the guns in America (hundreds of millions) and with the states that have super easy access to guns (TX, FL, etc) I'm surprised it isn't worse.

The media focuses on these things because it gets them ratings. They can tug at your heart strings, and the politicians can use it to get your vote. But even when all this is happening, gang and drug related violence is still rampant. We live in a society where the ratio of free vs jailed citizens is one of the lowest. This is certainly a societal problem and not a gun problem.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think we will ever "fix" this problem in America. It's not just a mass murder problem, or a gun problem...It's the way we live and treat each other. With bipartisan politics and the "kick the can" down the road mentality of humans as a whole (or atleast America)...I don't think we will ever have leaders who will step up to the plate, put their differences aside for once, and do something that will make a real difference. What that difference is... I don't know.

Good post. I will elaborate just a bit. We as humans have not really advanced very far on a sociological level. We are still highly tribal. We've got the white tribe, the black tribe, the brown, the red, the Christian, the Muslim, the Jew, it goes on and on. We also naturally congregate with those that we identify with. We've tried to force integration with laws. Not a bad thing at all when looked at superficially. But we are experiencing the pitfalls of forcing different tribes to live with one another. It will eventually sort itself out. But the bumps in the road should be expected.

We know that strict gun laws don't work. We need only to look at Chicago to know that. Until we learn to live harmoniously with other tribes, there will be problems. In the meantime, a plethora of available jobs would go a long ways towards "curing" many societal ills. Idle minds are the devil's workshop very much applies.

 

[shadow9d9]

So much fail in this post.

He is dead on right. Your obsession with guns is why the US is the onlyu one with the problem.

 

[shadow9d9]

Yep, it’s the equivalent of blaming cars for the recent increase in DWI deaths.

Stop trotting out this insanely retarded talking point. Cars are not designed to kill. They are designed for transportation. The purpose of a gun is to kill. You are only fooling yourself with that stupidity.

 

[Doppel]

Mass shootings are damn near impossible to stop from a gun control perspective. Without a gun anybody can find a cop, knife him, then they have a pistol plus an AR. This won't change unless you take the cops' guns.

The worst mass killing ever was in Europe recently in an area with tight gun control. The gun access does exacerbate these issues, but at the core they are nut jobs. Any recent increase in mass shootings I think is substantially a copy cat thing. It just seems to be the thing but jobs do now.

 

[shadow9d9]

And the kicker is guns for the most part were a lot easier to get a handfull of decades ago. On my 21st birthday in 1991 all I had to do was check a box claiming I wasn't a convicted felon and I walked out of the gun store with a nice new 45.

The kicker is that in countries that aren't obsessed with killing machines and have had guns removed, gun violence is insanely low compared to here.

 

[Texashiker]

good article on the FACTS

Is motherjones capable of having an honest article based on the facts?

If the article wants to be good, and based on the "facts", stop calling semi-automatic rifles "assault rifles." That is a representation of the facts and nothing more than fear mongering.

 

[shadow9d9]

Is motherjones capable of having an honest article based on the facts?

You wouldn't know facts if a little kid in walmart was walking around with them.

 

[Texashiker]

You wouldn't know facts if a little kid in walmart was walking around with them.

One fact is a semi-automatic rifle is not an assault rifle. But the author of the article uses the word assault rifle over and over.

That is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts.