Good aftermarket brands for ball joints, or pay the OEM premium?

[Torn Mind]

The is regards to the Toyota Matrix I've mentioned here in the past. 14 years, and the clunking on the left ball joint(thanks bad roads in tax hungry yet blue Peegee) has finally reached a point where it can consistently be heard when making hard turns to left or right and the lack of steering control is quite pronounced. Visual inspection also shows the grease has spewed out. Steering has been off for about 120k miles(It's just hit 200k) but nothing indicated failure requiring replacement during that time.

OEM Toyotas come out to 65 dollars and some assurance that it can last 200k and 14 years.

Autozone has Duralast and TRW for 39 and 47 dollars, respectively. Only considering them because of alleged ease of warranty process.

Advance Auto Parts is a hard no any given day. Their warranty process is basically a piece of paper that exists to suck people in. Will not consider their parts.

NAPA might be considered too.

I did see RockAuto but either the prices seem too good to be true(i.e Mevotech Supreme at about $25 after shipping) or even the high end requires maintenance, such as the ACDelco Professional having a zerk fitting and thus needing constant regreasing.

 

[RLGL]

Remember, You get what you pay for!

 

[herm0016]

I get all my parts from rock auto. never had a problem. you could check the listing for the Pontiac vibe for a price difference. same car.

the only difference between one with a grease fitting and one without, is that with a grease fitting and regular maintenance, it should last nearly forever. the one without just has grease in it from the factory and when that grease is gone or degraded, you replace the whole part.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You must've missed my prolix threads about my Trooper.

I had new ball-joints installed in September, 2018, replacing the original OEM units which were 23 years old. I asked for the best, but I was also trolling for a new repair shop I could trust, and the one I'd chosen for this job fell short of promise. They didn't give me "the best". And they charged too much.

So this year I wanted to replace my 7-year-old tires, and the diagnosis concluded I needed new ball-joints before installing new tires. I sought a second opinion, and it was confirmed. Later, I found chatter on the web about bad products from Moog. I think they got Moog units with the above-described 2018 replacement, but I can't be sure.

The new units this time were described as being as close to OEM as it gets. It was a brand named "555". I'm sure some of the mainstays offered by RockAuto are good. I was just shocked that a set of new ball-joints would be defective after four years. And I'm talking about a vehicle that was built to be rugged and virtually indestructible, so you'd think the parts would be up to snuff, regardless where they came from.

 

[Torn Mind]

You must've missed my prolix threads about my Trooper.

I had new ball-joints installed in September, 2018, replacing the original OEM units which were 23 years old. I asked for the best, but I was also trolling for a new repair shop I could trust, and the one I'd chosen for this job fell short of promise. They didn't give me "the best". And they charged too much.

So this year I wanted to replace my 7-year-old tires, and the diagnosis concluded I needed new ball-joints before installing new tires. I sought a second opinion, and it was confirmed. Later, I found chatter on the web about bad products from Moog. I think they got Moog units with the above-described 2018 replacement, but I can't be sure.

The new units this time were described as being as close to OEM as it gets. It was a brand named "555". I'm sure some of the mainstays offered by RockAuto are good. I was just shocked that a set of new ball-joints would be defective after four years. And I'm talking about a vehicle that was built to be rugged and virtually indestructible, so you'd think the parts would be up to snuff, regardless where they came from.

Au contraire. I believe I made posts in that thread, posting vids that Moog quality deteriorated and could not be trusted.

Sankei 555 is a name I have come across but I'm not sure if they are a match. Those ball joints are non-load bearing. Replacement doesn't even need a specialty kit. Just a hammer and pickle fork. So, I'll probably DIY the replacement.

I guess it's either...OEM. Autozone with their convinient warranty process. Or take a chance on Rockauto's ACdelco Professional w/grease fitting or the Mevotech Supreme.

If I get OEM, I'm sure it can reach 400k, but I don't know about the rest of the car like the exhaust. It's very much a love-hate thing for me. Reliability and versatility is nice, but the ergonomics is not and the gas is alright but could be better. Mom might be in her 70s, but if genetics indicate anything, she got 20 years more to go at least....

 

[mztykal]

555 are awesome! If they have those for your car I’d use those. The Moog ones are hit and miss. I replaced them on the TSX and it lasted a year. It’s a pain to install.

OEM or 555.

 

[jlee]

I also run 555's on my GX470.

 

[mindless1]

The originals are probably Sankei 555, if you can find those cheaper they are good BJs. NAPA does seem to have them for $44 for certain model years... I randomly picked 2006:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATMSB3962

TRW are usually good too. Moog, ACDelco Pro, and Mevotech are decent budget choices, but I would not get the Duralast. Ironically in the past a lot of people have gotten Sankei BJs from Moog for Hondas, but I wouldn't assume one way or the other that this applies to any particular Toyota.

 

[mindless1]

the only difference between one with a grease fitting and one without, is that with a grease fitting and regular maintenance, it should last nearly forever. the one without just has grease in it from the factory and when that grease is gone or degraded, you replace the whole part.

There are a few other potential differences. Non-greaseable usually use a plastic sleeve as a bushing, which offers lower drag when brand new, and might use silicone grease as the factory load, so when people try to top them off with a grease needle later, they need to know which grease type it has.

Greaseable is usually metal on metal and resists heavy load wear and potholes better, but only if a decent brand and you remember to lube them every 10K mi or so depending on service conditions, and only if the grease boot doesn't split apart prematurely, but that can wreck non-greaseable BJs too.

 

[Jimzz]

For that car the lower joints are easy to replace and does not alter the alignment. So even if you get a dud its not to bad.

Best cheap joint: $12 at RA
SUSPENSIA X50BJ0064 These are made in Turkey and not to bad. Esp if the car is getting older/worse for wear.

Good Mid tier/price: $24 at RA
BECK/ARNLEY 1015320 Many of thsee are made in Japan 555. No promises as B/A is just a re-boxer.

Higher cost: $45-65 each
This will include Sankei 555 or OE Toyota packaged. 555 are harder to find as they are many times re-boxed for the US.

 

[Torn Mind]

Welp, I took off the wheel with the intention of replacing the ball joint just an hour ago, but upon looking at the system, it seems like the much bigger issue is the control arm bushing. It's so sloppy that just pulling the wrench on the castle nut of the ball joint can move the whole assembly, which means that is likely the biggest reason why the steering has become sloppy.

So, I'll have to get a control arm as well.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Welp, I took off the wheel with the intention of replacing the ball joint just an hour ago, but upon looking at the system, it seems like the much bigger issue is the control arm bushing. It's so sloppy that just pulling the wrench on the castle nut of the ball joint can move the whole assembly, which means that is likely the biggest reason why the steering has become sloppy.

So, I'll have to get a control arm as well.

I was just ready to reply to your post #5, and read through the other posts that followed.

You said that the Matrix (Corolla variant?) was 14 years old? I applaud you. You said it was a "love-hate" experience. I'm not close to being a premiere do-it-yourselfer here, but that describes the experience with keeping an older car as a "transportation strategy". I had other parts replaced when I got my defective ball-joints in 2018, and it may have included the control arm as well as a swapped-out CV trans-axle. [The next time I'm told that the CV boot is leaking, I'll buy a NAPA neoprene split-boot and save myself the $200+ dollars. Contrary to the myths and cautions from mechanics, those NAPA units might just last forever.] You can go through these trouble-clusters, and still come out well enough. Toyotas can last a long, long time.

 

[Torn Mind]

I was just ready to reply to your post #5, and read through the other posts that followed.

You said that the Matrix (Corolla variant?) was 14 years old? I applaud you. You said it was a "love-hate" experience. I'm not close to being a premiere do-it-yourselfer here, but that describes the experience with keeping an older car as a "transportation strategy". I had other parts replaced when I got my defective ball-joints in 2018, and it may have included the control arm as well as a swapped-out CV trans-axle. [The next time I'm told that the CV boot is leaking, I'll buy a NAPA neoprene split-boot and save myself the $200+ dollars. Contrary to the myths and cautions from mechanics, those NAPA units might just last forever.] You can go through these trouble-clusters, and still come out well enough. Toyotas can last a long, long time.

Yep, it's the old hatchback Corolla. And was a NUMMI product and thus GM sold it as the Vibe, with Vibe having GM's take on the AC system.

The love is for the durability on the "essential" parts that might leave you stranded. The hate is for the ergonomics of the seats and small failure points like door gasket, battery cable. The True-2 batteries are hawt garbage as well, designed to devour the positive battery terminals. The noise is also an issue. Some shady mechanic made the exhaust noise slightly louder about 100k miles ago.

The sucker just hit 200k and some change.

But looking at the Youtube video documentation, the job for the driver side, which happens to be the most problematic part in question, is a beeeetch on time at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfB52Ee4ow

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yep, it's the old hatchback Corolla. And was a NUMMI product and thus GM sold it as the Vibe, with Vibe having GM's take on the AC system.

The love is for the durability on the "essential" parts that might leave you stranded. The hate is for the ergonomics of the seats and small failure points like door gasket, battery cable. The True-2 batteries are hawt garbage as well, designed to devour the positive battery terminals. The noise is also an issue. Some shady mechanic made the exhaust noise slightly louder about 100k miles ago.

The sucker just hit 200k and some change.

But looking at the Youtube video documentation, the job for the driver side, which happens to be the most problematic part in question, is a beeeetch on time at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfB52Ee4ow

How is your oil consumption on that bad boy? I KNOW that the entire Corolla line going back to my old Moms' purchase in 1983 will keep going past 200K. Her's had hit 230,000 in 2016, and we gave it the CA Cash-for-Clunkers at that time because we couldn't get an essential pollution control device for it -- not something you'd want to risk buying from a junk-yard. So it wouldn't pass the annual or bi-annual smog test. But it was tuned up! I took it for a spin a week before we delivered it to the state. The little sucker would git up and go! It DID consume oil, but we didn't have to top it off very often.

My old 95 Trooper doesn't seem to use a drop. I staunched the very tiny leak at the rear-mainseal with a small amount of Blue Devil. But for that leak, I never, never had to top off the oil, although I checked it periodically.

Sometimes you can get an old car, or hold on to one that has grown old, and if you go through some repair cycles, it can seem better than new. Except, of course, if the driver's seat can give you a pain in the butt after several hours driving it. One of my 79 Civics was like that. The morning before a guy in a 4Runner rear-ended and totaled it, I was flying up the I-95 to DC to teach my Sunday classes, and I remember thinking "This thing could become airborne!" I think a Toyota would've been even better.

I get a bigger organism driving an old car like that than I could possibly have -- even for a luxury model that was brand-new. I pat myself on the back for such a ride. Meanwhile, I was having a conversation with the wealthy mother of my next door neighbor, who was asking me if I'd seen his new Tesla, and I made some remark about our Trooper and a 95 Nissan truck. Her reaction had a tone to it, like "Yes . . . you are sooooo pooo-er . . . . " She said "Yes, I know . . . " with a sense of sadness.

But I don't feel poor. I feel rather smart . . . .

 

[Torn Mind]

How is your oil consumption on that bad boy? I KNOW that the entire Corolla line going back to my old Moms' purchase in 1983 will keep going past 200K. Her's had hit 230,000 in 2016, and we gave it the CA Cash-for-Clunkers at that time because we couldn't get an essential pollution control device for it -- not something you'd want to risk buying from a junk-yard. So it wouldn't pass the annual or bi-annual smog test. But it was tuned up! I took it for a spin a week before we delivered it to the state. The little sucker would git up and go! It DID consume oil, but we didn't have to top it off very often.

My old 95 Trooper doesn't seem to use a drop. I staunched the very tiny leak at the rear-mainseal with a small amount of Blue Devil. But for that leak, I never, never had to top off the oil, although I checked it periodically.

Sometimes you can get an old car, or hold on to one that has grown old, and if you go through some repair cycles, it can seem better than new. Except, of course, if the driver's seat can give you a pain in the butt after several hours driving it. One of my 79 Civics was like that. The morning before a guy in a 4Runner rear-ended and totaled it, I was flying up the I-95 to DC to teach my Sunday classes, and I remember thinking "This thing could become airborne!" I think a Toyota would've been even better.

I get a bigger organism driving an old car like that than I could possibly have -- even for a luxury model that was brand-new. I pat myself on the back for such a ride. Meanwhile, I was having a conversation with the wealthy mother of my next door neighbor, who was asking me if I'd seen his new Tesla, and I made some remark about our Trooper and a 95 Nissan truck. Her reaction had a tone to it, like "Yes . . . you are sooooo pooo-er . . . . " She said "Yes, I know . . . " with a sense of sadness.

But I don't feel poor. I feel rather smart . . . .

I'm not sure about burning per se but there are couple leaks I need to get around to. The valve cover gasket is due and I probably should get a new gasket for the oil drain plug. The oil level does decrease over time and I'm not sure it it is just bad seals or if there is burning over time.

I probably should clean the tranny filter and install the tranny gasket kit I bought a few years back. If I do that, the matter of the giant bolt hitting the transmission pan should become a non-issue

Also, you Cali folks have few tiers of rich not present elsewhere.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm not sure about burning per se but there are couple leaks I need to get around to. The valve cover gasket is due and I probably should get a new gasket for the oil drain plug. The oil level does decrease over time and I'm not sure it it is just bad seals or if there is burning over time.

I probably should clean the tranny filter and install the tranny gasket kit I bought a few years back. If I do that, the matter of the giant bolt hitting the transmission pan should become a non-issue

Also, you Cali folks have few tiers of rich not present elsewhere.

It was my subtle comment in the subject of "class struggle". I could examine the thoughts of the next-door's mother-in-law just to compare the different ways people think about money and the people who have more or less. Maybe that's what Thorsten Veblen did in his "Theory of the Leisure Class".

Whatever I imagined about her thoughts, her words and their tone, she is a very nice lady who puts my mother to shame in understanding practical matters of some kind. But she's also less than half my mother's age.

Look into valve drain plugs -- I think they're called valve drains -- Fumoto and ValvoMax are two brands -- and rubberized gasket material, as well as a tube of high-temp thread sealer. Take a look at your smog records -- even better if you have them going back ten years or more for the comparison. The cost of valve cover gaskets versus main seal replacement is in the same order of magnitude, and not cheap. Autozone or Reilly's sell a large 3'x2' drop pan you can put under the car, to assess the leaks. You can even get an estimate of it in ounces since the last time you cleaned the drop pan, by using absorbent paper shop towels to absorb the oil on a corner of the towel you can squeeze out into a measuring cup.

A lot of very good old cars may use -- one way or the other -- as much as a quart/1000 miles. If you can go 3,000 and only lose 1/2 quart, that's much better. For me, I've never needed to top up the oil between changes. How old is the tranny -- automatic, I assume? Some cars have easier-to-access screens or filters. Mine is a b****. You can flush your tranny yourself from the dipstick port, avoid tapping into any tranny cooling lines to the radiator or breaking pan gaskets requiring re-seal, with a 1/4" length of refrigerator tubing you can get at the Home Depot -- flexible plastic or stiff vinyl -- not sure. You can fit it to a hand pump, and the pump may cost you $25. It's really tedious doing it that way, and you're going to use some extra Dexron or Toyota-whatever. You'd be diluting the old oil as you might for the old anti-freeze in a radiator flush -- also tedious. If you know the capacity of the tranny oil, you can calculate the number of quarts you need by taking the amount removed until the pan is empty -- say it's 40% or 0.40 -- and solve for the exponent you need to achieve -- say -- 0.08 or 8% dirty oil left in the tranny. The exponent, of course, is the number of times you have to drain what's in the pan. You have to run the car between iterations, of course. DIY can be tedious. Maybe you have a better way to do it. Some trannies just have drain plugs, so no pumping with your arthritis. Maybe you're that lucky. I didn't get to know my Moms' Corolla that well. And your model is newer by maybe 24 years or so, so even if I was aware of our car's design, it wouldn't be a guide..

 

[Torn Mind]

It was my subtle comment in the subject of "class struggle". I could examine the thoughts of the next-door's mother-in-law just to compare the different ways people think about money and the people who have more or less. Maybe that's what Thorsten Veblen did in his "Theory of the Leisure Class".

Whatever I imagined about her thoughts, her words and their tone, she is a very nice lady who puts my mother to shame in understanding practical matters of some kind. But she's also less than half my mother's age.

Look into valve drain plugs -- I think they're called valve drains -- Fumoto and ValvoMax are two brands -- and rubberized gasket material, as well as a tube of high-temp thread sealer. Take a look at your smog records -- even better if you have them going back ten years or more for the comparison. The cost of valve cover gaskets versus main seal replacement is in the same order of magnitude, and not cheap. Autozone or Reilly's sell a large 3'x2' drop pan you can put under the car, to assess the leaks. You can even get an estimate of it in ounces since the last time you cleaned the drop pan, by using absorbent paper shop towels to absorb the oil on a corner of the towel you can squeeze out into a measuring cup.

A lot of very good old cars may use -- one way or the other -- as much as a quart/1000 miles. If you can go 3,000 and only lose 1/2 quart, that's much better. For me, I've never needed to top up the oil between changes. How old is the tranny -- automatic, I assume? Some cars have easier-to-access screens or filters. Mine is a b****. You can flush your tranny yourself from the dipstick port, avoid tapping into any tranny cooling lines to the radiator or breaking pan gaskets requiring re-seal, with a 1/4" length of refrigerator tubing you can get at the Home Depot -- flexible plastic or stiff vinyl -- not sure. You can fit it to a hand pump, and the pump may cost you $25. It's really tedious doing it that way, and you're going to use some extra Dexron or Toyota-whatever. You'd be diluting the old oil as you might for the old anti-freeze in a radiator flush -- also tedious. If you know the capacity of the tranny oil, you can calculate the number of quarts you need by taking the amount removed until the pan is empty -- say it's 40% or 0.40 -- and solve for the exponent you need to achieve -- say -- 0.08 or 8% dirty oil left in the tranny. The exponent, of course, is the number of times you have to drain what's in the pan. You have to run the car between iterations, of course. DIY can be tedious. Maybe you have a better way to do it. Some trannies just have drain plugs, so no pumping with your arthritis. Maybe you're that lucky. I didn't get to know my Moms' Corolla that well. And your model is newer by maybe 24 years or so, so even if I was aware of our car's design, it wouldn't be a guide..

As far as drain plugs go, Toyota did endow the tranny with a drain plug and its in the front on the driver's side. About as simple as an oil change for draining. FWD magic.

I caved and paid $421 via Yourmechanic to get a guy to do the control arm. He took about 2.5 hours today. Lord knows how long I would have taken hammering that thing back into position. I was thinking of doing a tranny filter replacement if I had done it myself for that pan obstructing the control arm bolt.

Toyota being as conservative as they are, like have the same language of the Corolla. Battery on the driver's side, power steering on the passenger side. The most recent generation has had some substantial mods, such as putting the computer in the engine bay, mixing direct and port injection, etc; speedkar99 went through them.