Good 8-Bit IPS Monitor For Around $400-$500 With Calibrator Around $150-$200.

[Davidh373]

Hi All!

I haven't been around these parts of the forum before. I normally prowl around the General Hardware forum in my spare time. I figured today I'd stop bugging them with questions about stuff that page wasn't meant for and hop over here.

To tell you a little about my intentions, I'm a video editor, compositor, and 3D modeler on a kick for a "semi-pro" look and feel. I'm going to be getting two of these eventually. One this month with the calibrator, and one next month. I have a tax return processing currently, so I have some money coming my way. I've only owned cheap 6-Bit TN panels in the past and I'm ready to move up to a good intro IPS monitor. I currently own two Hanns-G 23.6" 1080p monitors I got 4 years back for $160 a piece. I can only assume they are about the cruddiest monitors ever and my work looks like poop but I can't see the difference.

What I'm looking for is a good 16:10 IPS monitor which will be color accurate with AdobeRGB after calibration for around $400-$500. I've looked at NEC, but they have no 8-Bit panels in my price range. I've also looked at the ASUS Proart PA246Q, and the Dell Ultrasharp U2410. Don't be afraid to recommend I invest more money, but also keep in mind I'm much less likely to listen when you tell me to double up lol. Try to remember this is my first IPS. It's a big enough jump as is.

Currently, I'm leaning toward Dell for aesthetics and reputation. I'm scrambling to find reasons the ASUS is any better for an extra ~$50 and I despise that thick red strip at the bottom, although I do love ASUS' products. I frequently recommend Motherboards, Laptops, Desktops, Routers, Range Extenders, and Wireless Adapters from them. The problem is I'm really trying to get my equipment up to a certain performance standard, but also keep them as color neutral as possible.

I also understand the importance of color calibration. I've not really sought out advice for this one, but the one that seems to catch my eye for the price is the Spyder4Pro. Now, I've also seen that certain calibrators have problems with certain monitors or brands. I have no idea why or how, or if it's just user error. So I could really use guidance here.

I notice also that Dell just recently launched the revision to the U2410 (U2413), but it's $600 and there's very few sellers. I really like the looks of a 2k monitor as well. Dell has the U2713, but it might be too big to sit on my desk, and it's only 6-Bit, with the 8-Bit U2711 coming in at double my budget. If there were an 8-Bit 24" 2k monitor for ~$700 I might jump on it, but what I've seen is that kind of density for the price doesn't exist.

I was almost set on ordering the Dell U2410 a few minutes ago with the Spyder4Pro, but it's going to be a few days until my CC account turns over and why not have a little longer to pay for it, ehh? So now I have a few days to discuss options with you guys. Fun, huh?

So thanks in advance guys. Any and all help and assistance is welcomed and appreciated.

Also, for reference:

Current System Specs:

Antec Sonata Solo II
Corsair 650TX
ASRock Z77 Extreme3
i7 3770K
16GB GSkill DDR3
EVGA GTX 670
Hanns-G HH231 x 2
Schiit Magni Amp
Schiit Modi DAC
Sennheiser HD380 Pro

 

[kevinsbane]

Hi All!

I haven't been around these parts of the forum before. I normally prowl around the General Hardware forum in my spare time. I figured today I'd stop bugging them with questions about stuff that page wasn't meant for and hop over here.

To tell you a little about my intentions, I'm a video editor, compositor, and 3D modeler on a kick for a "semi-pro" look and feel. I'm going to be getting two of these eventually. One this month with the calibrator, and one next month. I have a tax return processing currently, so I have some money coming my way. I've only owned cheap 6-Bit TN panels in the past and I'm ready to move up to a good intro IPS monitor. I currently own two Hanns-G 23.6" 1080p monitors I got 4 years back for $160 a piece. I can only assume they are about the cruddiest monitors ever and my work looks like poop but I can't see the difference.

What I'm looking for is a good 16:10 IPS monitor which will be color accurate with AdobeRGB after calibration for around $400-$500. I've looked at NEC, but they have no 8-Bit panels in my price range. I've also looked at the ASUS Proart PA246Q, and the Dell Ultrasharp U2410. Don't be afraid to recommend I invest more money, but also keep in mind I'm much less likely to listen when you tell me to double up lol. Try to remember this is my first IPS. It's a big enough jump as is.

Currently, I'm leaning toward Dell for aesthetics and reputation. I'm scrambling to find reasons the ASUS is any better for an extra ~$50 and I despise that thick red strip at the bottom, although I do love ASUS' products. I frequently recommend Motherboards, Laptops, Desktops, Routers, Range Extenders, and Wireless Adapters from them. The problem is I'm really trying to get my equipment up to a certain performance standard, but also keep them as color neutral as possible.

I also understand the importance of color calibration. I've not really sought out advice for this one, but the one that seems to catch my eye for the price is the Spyder4Pro. Now, I've also seen that certain calibrators have problems with certain monitors or brands. I have no idea why or how, or if it's just user error. So I could really use guidance here.

I notice also that Dell just recently launched the revision to the U2410 (U2413), but it's $600 and there's very few sellers. I really like the looks of a 2k monitor as well. Dell has the U2713, but it might be too big to sit on my desk, and it's only 6-Bit, with the 8-Bit U2711 coming in at double my budget. If there were an 8-Bit 24" 2k monitor for ~$700 I might jump on it, but what I've seen is that kind of density for the price doesn't exist.

I was almost set on ordering the Dell U2410 a few minutes ago with the Spyder4Pro, but it's going to be a few days until my CC account turns over and why not have a little longer to pay for it, ehh? So now I have a few days to discuss options with you guys. Fun, huh?

So thanks in advance guys. Any and all help and assistance is welcomed and appreciated.

Also, for reference:

Current System Specs:

Antec Sonata Solo II
Corsair 650TX
ASRock Z77 Extreme3
i7 3770K
16GB GSkill DDR3
EVGA GTX 670
Hanns-G HH231 x 2
Schiit Magni Amp
Schiit Modi DAC
Sennheiser HD380 Pro

Is the U2413 available in your area? That would be a nice upgrade as compared to the U2410 - which is somewhat out of date at this point.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Why do people quote the first post when they're the first person to reply, I wonder?

Anyway, with that digression out of the way: my suggestion is the Asus PA246Q. It's a 24" P-IPS panel (so I believe it has an extended color gamut) at 1920x1200p. It also fits just barely above your budget ($420).

 

[Davidh373]

Is the U2413 available in your area? That would be a nice upgrade as compared to the U2410 - which is somewhat out of date at this point.

It's a tad out of my budget. There is an international seller on Amazon selling it for $620. At least there was when I looked a few days ago... At that point I'd almost rather have a 2K monitor.

Anyway, with that digression out of the way: my suggestion is the Asus PA246Q. It's a 24" P-IPS panel (so I believe it has an extended color gamut) at 1920x1200p. It also fits just barely above your budget ($420).

Even with the butt ugly red strip and the stand I don't think I have room for (I meant to mention the stand but after checking I guess I didn't)?... I really hate that red strip. Can you give me technical reasons the ASUS is better for the $50+ and the sacrifice in aesthetics? I'm still leaning toward the Dell without proof the ASUS is better. If ASUS is the better product, I'll buy it, but if there is only a minimal difference I'm sticking with the Dell.

 

[snoylekim]

The U2410 will calibrate nicely ..I use it with the I1 Display Pro Calibration device w/ delta E's < 1 ... It's a good deal right now to snap those up ... Good 8 bit IPS monitors are pricey . I think you have pulled the trigger on the best for your budget, and will like the results once you calibrate it where you need it to be.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The Asus has a better color gamut and more shades (10-bit on the Asus vs 8-bit on the Dell). It's thus better for pure photo work since it'll show colors more accurately. However, the Dell costs less and has features like USB3.0 which you make like.

I'm just recommending you get the best color reproduction over extra features which don't really help with photo editing.

 

[Davidh373]

The U2410 will calibrate nicely ..I use it with the I1 Display Pro Calibration device w/ delta E's < 1 ... It's a good deal right now to snap those up ... Good 8 bit IPS monitors are pricey . I think you have pulled the trigger on the best for your budget, and will like the results once you calibrate it where you need it to be.

Thanks for this advice. What is delta exactly? Is that the degree of accuracy? By the way, how much is that calibrator?

The Asus has a better color gamut and more shades (10-bit on the Asus vs 8-bit on the Dell). It's thus better for pure photo work since it'll show colors more accurately. However, the Dell costs less and has features like USB3.0 which you make like.

I'm just recommending you get the best color reproduction over extra features which don't really help with photo editing.

Both seem to support 1.07 Billion Colors (8-Bit). Both have a 10-Bit processor, and both have a 12-Bit LUT.

Also, The Dell seems to have better Gamut @ 110% vs. 100% according to

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/asus-pa246q/4507-3174_7-34505604.html

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?cs=19&c=us&l=en&sku=320-8277 (Click the little "1" next to Gamut under "Vibrant, Accurate Color".

Also, one of the key benefits to ASUS was the USB 3.0 hub, vs. Dell's 2.0 hub.

Please link to articles with technical specs to compare. All that I've found based on the search you inspired was the information above.

EDIT: I see, the ASUS has 98% AdobeRGB, Vs. Dell's 96%. Hmm...

 

[wirednuts]

Why do people quote the first post when they're the first person to reply, I wonder?

because after numerous times where someone posts before you can click submit, you get annoyed to the point where you quote anything youre directing your post to.

 

[Sleepingforest]

@OP: I think you have to check what your printer uses to determine what color gamut to tune to and prioritize.

 

[snoylekim]

Thanks for this advice. What is delta exactly? Is that the degree of accuracy? By the way, how much is that calibrator?



Both seem to support 1.07 Billion Colors (8-Bit). Both have a 10-Bit processor, and both have a 12-Bit LUT.

Also, The Dell seems to have better Gamut @ 110% vs. 100% according to

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/asus-pa246q/4507-3174_7-34505604.html

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?cs=19&c=us&l=en&sku=320-8277 (Click the little "1" next to Gamut under "Vibrant, Accurate Color".

Also, one of the key benefits to ASUS was the USB 3.0 hub, vs. Dell's 2.0 hub.

Please link to articles with technical specs to compare. All that I've found based on the search you inspired was the information above.

EDIT: I see, the ASUS has 98% AdobeRGB, Vs. Dell's 96%. Hmm...

The I1Display Pro is usually between 200-250.00 ..sometimes on sale ..check B and H , Calumet Photo, etc .. Delta E is a measure taken after calibration using a reference set of colors to determine how close/far the calibration was able to get to reference . The lower the better..usually measured against 24 -48 colors that scan the ranges ( 0,0,0, -255,255,255) . Sometimes subdivided into the grayscale ( very important for this to be as close to 0 as possible) , and the remainder .
Discussion on 8/10/12 bit color assumes your graphics adapter can support 10 bit color and the software being used is color managed .. Usually true 10 bit capability is only in professional graphics cards ( e.g Nvidia Quadro or AMD Firepro .. $$$$) .
Adobe and Wide Gamut support is important if you're going to be printing/publishing, as printers typically handle a wider gamut (range) of color than a standard monitor .. and for graphic design for advertising, package design, etc . Calibrating the printer ( which requires a higher level of photometer) , or obtaining an accurate ICC profile is necessary to use for soft proofing output on the computer . If you're doing web work , or just electronic distribution, what's important is a tight sRGB or standard gamut .. welcome to the wonderful world of color engineering .. it's actually fascinating

 

[Davidh373]

The I1Display Pro is usually between 200-250.00 ..sometimes on sale ..check B and H , Calumet Photo, etc .. Delta E is a measure taken after calibration using a reference set of colors to determine how close/far the calibration was able to get to reference . The lower the better..usually measured against 24 -48 colors that scan the ranges ( 0,0,0, -255,255,255) . Sometimes subdivided into the grayscale ( very important for this to be as close to 0 as possible) , and the remainder .
Discussion on 8/10/12 bit color assumes your graphics adapter can support 10 bit color and the software being used is color managed .. Usually true 10 bit capability is only in professional graphics cards ( e.g Nvidia Quadro or AMD Firepro .. $$$$) .
Adobe and Wide Gamut support is important if you're going to be printing/publishing, as printers typically handle a wider gamut (range) of color than a standard monitor .. and for graphic design for advertising, package design, etc . Calibrating the printer ( which requires a higher level of photometer) , or obtaining an accurate ICC profile is necessary to use for soft proofing output on the computer . If you're doing web work , or just electronic distribution, what's important is a tight sRGB or standard gamut .. welcome to the wonderful world of color engineering .. it's actually fascinating

THANK YOU! I'm going to be using Adobe products a lot, so I will be using their color standard, but I'm not printing alot (no photos at all). I mainly want color accuracy for video editing. I also do 3D modeling and Visual Effects, but those two things are a little less important.

 

[snoylekim]

No prob ..I'm always learning myself .. Adobe applications generally have very good color management, so .. For video, there are a whole set of different standards ..you have wide RGB (0-255, 0 is black , 255 is white) ..but a narrower range in use by broadcast (NTSC/ATSC) were 16 is black, 235 is white , everything below or above is problematic, YCbCr ( Luminance, Blue and Red .. poor Green Channel !!) , etc .. I'll let you google these ... Enjoy !!

 

[ViRGE]

Even with the butt ugly red strip and the stand I don't think I have room for (I meant to mention the stand but after checking I guess I didn't)?... I really hate that red strip. Can you give me technical reasons the ASUS is better for the $50+ and the sacrifice in aesthetics? I'm still leaning toward the Dell without proof the ASUS is better. If ASUS is the better product, I'll buy it, but if there is only a minimal difference I'm sticking with the Dell.

Both the Dell and the Asus are based on similar panels (LM240WU4-SLB1 and LM240WU4-SLB3 respectively), and with equally similar electronics driving them they're really not all that different. I guess the slightly newer panel in the Asus is an advantage, but if it is it's a small one.

Both come factory calibrated, but since you're going to be doing your own calibration anyhow it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately neither features a programmable LUT; for the price range this is a rather rare feature, so the U2413 is actually rather unusual since its 14bit LUT is programmable.

AnandTech doesn't have a review of the U2410, but they do have the PA246Q: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6032/asus-pa246q-24-proart-monitor/ I would note that they've found the same thing I have: the PA246Q is rather bright, so unless you're specifically going for an extra-bright monitor, you'll probably need to dial down the brightness pretty far (I run mine at 15%).

I'd say that if they're at the same price, go with whichever company you like more or which design you like better. There's no real advantage to the Asus in your case, and if it ends up costing more I can't think of any reason to pay the higher price tag.

Though in your case I think you shouldn't immediately disregard the U2413. It's basically a next-generation monitor; it's one of the first using LG's new LM240WU9-SLA1 panel, it has a programmable LUT if you're going to need incredibly precise colors, the real contrast ratio measures better, and the anti-glare coating is said to be a lot nicer. Plus the U2410 is going to be EOL'd soon anyhow, so you'd basically be buying a 4 year old monitor on its way out. Not that monitor tech moves particularly quickly though...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm

 

[Davidh373]

Though in your case I think you shouldn't immediately disregard the U2413. It's basically a next-generation monitor; it's one of the first using LG's new LM240WU9-SLA1 panel, it has a programmable LUT if you're going to need incredibly precise colors, the real contrast ratio measures better, and the anti-glare coating is said to be a lot nicer. Plus the U2410 is going to be EOL'd soon anyhow, so you'd basically be buying a 4 year old monitor on its way out. Not that monitor tech moves particularly quickly though...

Although I'm not fully disregarding it, it is a 30% difference in price, so that is what I'm considering most when counting the U2413 out for the most part. If I were to buy two U2413s I could buy 3 U2410s for the same price. Plus you throw in a decent calibrator and I've spent more than I did on my computer if I didn't get a massive discount from Intel Retail Edge on my processor. Plus, I still have to get reference speakers and a decent amplified card to drive them. So I really can't see investing more than a "G" in these monitors.

EDIT: And thank you for the info. I really appreciate all the work you're all putting into this. You've all been really helpful so far.

 

[kevinsbane]

Although I'm not fully disregarding it, it is a 30% difference in price, so that is what I'm considering most when counting the U2413 out for the most part. If I were to buy two U2413s I could buy 3 U2410s for the same price. Plus you throw in a decent calibrator and I've spent more than I did on my computer if I didn't get a massive discount from Intel Retail Edge on my processor. Plus, I still have to get reference speakers and a decent amplified card to drive them. So I really can't see investing more than a "G" in these monitors.

EDIT: And thank you for the info. I really appreciate all the work you're all putting into this. You've all been really helpful so far.

You'd be surprised how flexible Dell is on pricing. Call them up and lowball them on price - say, $450-$500 per U2413. Especially if you're buying 2. If nothing else, that's 5 minutes of your time that could save you an easy $200-$300.

The U2413 is superior enough for me to recommend it even despite the increase in price - almost all of the shortcomings of the old U2410 (low contrast, aggressive antiglare, power consumption, input lag, USB 2.0) have all been improved upon.

 

[Davidh373]

You'd be surprised how flexible Dell is on pricing. Call them up and lowball them on price - say, $450-$500 per U2413. Especially if you're buying 2. If nothing else, that's 5 minutes of your time that could save you an easy $200-$300.

I would if they sold it in the US yet. They don't yet though. I also contacted them via Email on their business page (the section of the website they list the U2413 under) a week or more ago for when they might release it in the US and they have yet to return my email. I don't think it's soon. Aside from that I can't afford both at once, but I could always leave my money sit while I save and perhaps in the process of saving it releases next month. Who knows? So I might think on it. Would the U2413 factory calibrated be more accurate or "better" than the U2410 calibrated with the Spyder or Colormunki at around $170-$200?

 

[ViRGE]

I would if they sold it in the US yet. They don't yet though. I also contacted them via Email on their business page (the section of the website they list the U2413 under) a week or more ago for when they might release it in the US and they have yet to return my email. I don't think it's soon. Aside from that I can't afford both at once, but I could always leave my money sit while I save and perhaps in the process of saving it releases next month. Who knows? So I might think on it. Would the U2413 factory calibrated be more accurate or "better" than the U2410 calibrated with the Spyder or Colormunki at around $170-$200?

Dell factory calibration is pretty good, but it's not going to beat spending a couple of hours calibrating it on your own. It's really a question of just how accurate you need it to be.

Officially the U2413 is supposed to be calibrated with a DeltaE < 2, while the U2410 is calibrated to DeltaE < 5. However in AdobeRGB mode, TFTCentral found that the U2413's DeltaE was higher than that.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm

 

[Davidh373]

I'd probably end up getting a calibrator eventually, but for the added cost of the monitors I'd want to get something like the Spyder4Elite of the Xrite i1DisplayPro instead of cheaping out. Would the Dell factory calibrated hold down the fort for accurate color correction for a few months until I can get both monitors?

 

[ViRGE]

Again, it's all about how accurate you need it to be. If the accuracy similar to what TFT Central found is good enough for you, then the U2413 should be stable like that for quite some time.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I think part of the problem is that the OP is unsure of exactly how accurate he needs his monitor to be for his work. Here's a quote of what he wants to do:

I mainly want color accuracy for video editing. I also do 3D modeling and Visual Effects, but those two things are a little less important.

I don't know what accuracy this would require though. ViRGE, you got any input?

 

[ViRGE]

Color accuracy is first and foremost a concern for print. For video editing it's important too, but it's nothing like needing your monitor to precisely match your printer. But I don't do video editing, so I'm honestly not sure just how accurate it needs to be.

If it doesn't have to be incredibly precise, then the U2413 would be fine. Especially if he only works in sRGB (isn't virtually all video content sRGB?), which according to TFT Central was extremely well calibrated.

TFT Central considers dE >3 a problem, but again, I don't know if this is really an issue for video editing, since the dE was 4.4 on average for AdobeRGB mode.

"If DeltaE >3, the color displayed is significantly different from the theoretical one, meaning that the difference will be perceptible to the viewer. If DeltaE <2, LaCie considers the calibration a success; there remains a slight difference, but it is barely undetectable. If DeltaE < 1, the color fidelity is excellent. "

 

[snoylekim]

The video color standard is based on RGB , and broadcast 16-235 is even a bit narrower. The challenge in video comes from color balancing and 'color matching' across multiple edited sequences, white balance for indoor and outdoor, and black level/highlight management. Pro Video houses usually use broadcast/video reference monitors in addition to computer monitors for playback/editing .. these are $$$$ ...
I do some video ..I use a Dell U2410 that has the sRGB calibrated to .98 Delta E .. That should be more than sufficient for the O/P for video work . I stick to sRGB for all video stuff .. wide gamut is not useful for this .

 

[ViRGE]

I do some video ..I use a Dell U2410 that has the sRGB calibrated to .98 Delta E .. That should be more than sufficient for the O/P for video work . I stick to sRGB for all video stuff .. wide gamut is not useful for this .

If all he needs is sRGB then the U2413 is almost certainly fine. TFT Central's model had an average dE of only 1.1.

 

[Davidh373]

I ordered the U2413 on sale for $500 direct from Dell. It has a Delta E<0.83333 in Adobe RGB, and E<0.767 in sRGB and looks fantastic. The sale is here for anyone interested. I also of course I got an extra $100 off for Bank of America giving me $100 for having a balance of $500+ in 3 months of getting a Credit Card.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-9567

 

[snoylekim]

nice price , and nice calibration .. for a few things , it makes a big difference .