Goldman Sachs Loses Grip on Its Doomsday Machine:

GeezerMan

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2005
2,146
26
91
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?
 

NaughtyGeek

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,065
0
71
As much as I lean towards the way of thinking referred to in the OP, it is more likely that someone knowing how their system works could artificially create conditions that would cause the software to act in a specific manner which the offending party could use to their advantage.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
If the financial markets are at the mercy of a single computer program then clearly they need to do some cutting of the power cords.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

http://www.rollingstone.com/po...merican_bubble_machine
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

http://www.rollingstone.com/po...merican_bubble_machine

Love Matt Taibbi, can't get that reporting anywhere in the MSM.
 

JayhaVVKU

Senior member
Apr 28, 2003
318
0
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

http://www.rollingstone.com/po...merican_bubble_machine

Love Matt Taibbi, can't get that reporting anywhere in the MSM.

That is one fascinating article. Taibbi does a great job of describing the complexities of these systems in a way that a lay-idiot(such as myself) can easily understand. Very troubling the scope and efficiency which we are getting reamed.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
I speculate Goldman's black box is useless outside of Goldman. No other institution has enough resources to move markets like GS does.

Plus I imagine the algorithm is updated constantly. The algo that was used 6 months ago might be useless today.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

http://www.rollingstone.com/po...merican_bubble_machine

Love Matt Taibbi, can't get that reporting anywhere in the MSM.

Agreed, I found that article very informative.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
If they do have a Doomsday Machine manipulating the markets, they need to be punished. How? Perhaps we should be taking away the bank charter.
 

Darthvoy

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,825
1
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Low and behold, look who's fixing to report record profits following on the heels of disaster.


Linkage

It can't hurt having friends in high places.

exactly... the Obama administration is littered with wall street invesmtent bankers. Why no outrage I wonder? If it was any other time in history, I think we would have held them to the stake.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Low and behold, look who's fixing to report record profits following on the heels of disaster.


Linkage

It can't hurt having friends in high places.

exactly... the Obama administration is littered with wall street invesmtent bankers. Why no outrage I wonder? If it was any other time in history, I think we would have held them to the stake.

you mean like all the big business deregulation defense contractor ass fuck of the last 8 years? Yeah we were all up in arms about that weren't we :confused:
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

This was the exact subject of John Crudele's business op-ed this week. I like this guy, and although I wouldn't call him anywhere close to an expert, he's been getting the unemployment and CPI numbers more right than Wall St consensus the past 6 months:

John Crudele 7/9/09 article
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Low and behold, look who's fixing to report record profits following on the heels of disaster.


Linkage

It can't hurt having friends in high places.

exactly... the Obama administration is littered with wall street invesmtent bankers. Why no outrage I wonder? If it was any other time in history, I think we would have held them to the stake.

you mean like all the big business deregulation defense contractor ass fuck of the last 8 years? Yeah we were all up in arms about that weren't we :confused:

Uhhhhhh, yes. Or don't you remember the whole "Impeach Bush" thing?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
dude he's saying if it was any other time in history we wouldn't of tolerated it and that's clearly false as atleast 51% of us did.

Now we just want to hang bush :)
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Low and behold, look who's fixing to report record profits following on the heels of disaster.


Linkage

It can't hurt having friends in high places.

exactly... the Obama administration is littered with wall street invesmtent bankers. Why no outrage I wonder? If it was any other time in history, I think we would have held them to the stake.

you mean like all the big business deregulation defense contractor ass fuck of the last 8 years? Yeah we were all up in arms about that weren't we :confused:

Uhhhhhh, yes. Or don't you remember the whole "Impeach Bush" thing?
Say, about those haliburton no-bid contracts, and blackwater.

They still doing work for the government? I mean we're two years deep into dem congress, and quite a ways into hopenchange...

 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

http://www.rollingstone.com/po...merican_bubble_machine

Love Taiibbi's work - and he nails it yet again.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

No, this is likely one of their complex hedge/risk balancing programs. If they knew all the things that would set off a buy from the computers in GS, then yes they could use this to force GS (through GS's own automated computer risk management programs) to buy up crap.

Not much to see here IMO, move along...
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

No, this is likely one of their complex hedge/risk balancing programs. If they knew all the things that would set off a buy from the computers in GS, then yes they could use this to force GS (through GS's own automated computer risk management programs) to buy up crap.

Not much to see here IMO, move along...

Looks like a GS spy has infiltrated our ranks.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Summary:

This is esoteric but not 'secret' knowledge. Most practitioners just aren't up-to-date in quantitative methods, which is why we are where we are.


Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

A black box program that belongs to Goldman Sachs is stolen.
So Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Facciponti tells the judge: ?The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways.?

Question: Could it be that Goldman Sachs used the program in that way?

No, this is likely one of their complex hedge/risk balancing programs. If they knew all the things that would set off a buy from the computers in GS, then yes they could use this to force GS (through GS's own automated computer risk management programs) to buy up crap.

Not much to see here IMO, move along...

It isn't much of a black box, any bio-physicist or neuro-science researcher worth his salt is familiar with Support Vector Machines add that to this line of research SVM for Finance.

add to that the data-set that a reasonably large company can get about the economy and you have the best tools available for calculating the true price options etc. should be set at.

This is in contrast to the half-useful Black Scholes Formula that the Harvard MBAs responsible for the most recent crash where using.

fun fact, BSF tells you where the market thinks it should go and well set-up SVMs will tell you where it will go and you can make a pile of money.

I plan on using this myself as soon as I stop being poor and get enough money to invest on the 6month time-scale that this sort of observation will help with.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,362
1,219
126
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Low and behold, look who's fixing to report record profits following on the heels of disaster.


Linkage

It can't hurt having friends in high places.

exactly... the Obama administration is littered with wall street invesmtent bankers. Why no outrage I wonder? If it was any other time in history, I think we would have held them to the stake.

you mean like all the big business deregulation defense contractor ass fuck of the last 8 years? Yeah we were all up in arms about that weren't we :confused:

At least the defense contractor actually made something tangible, it was not necessary but still something. The stock market is one big scam. People get upset when they lose something that wasn't there to begin with.