Going liquid cooled. Experts chime in on parts!

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OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
looks nice!!!

I see a modular psu in your future to clear up a bunch of that cabling :p

Yeah.. been wanting a modular PSU for a while now, hard to justify the cost till my next major upgrade. My 850 watt does a great job.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,894
3,246
126
oh this is madness.. no its sparta~
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
oh this is madness.. no its sparta~

much excited, careful measurements show everything will fit, but its going to be way cramped.

I am very excited for the dual pump bay res from Koolance, that thing looks very nice :)

Also you warned me... water cooling is addictive. Not really sure why. Trying to encourage some of my friends to take the plunge. If that goes through I'll get to build loops and not have to pay for them :D
 
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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
haha nice.

I read through most of this, as I am thinking that my spare rig being a btc miner may give me the excuse to start a loop to keep the GPU cool so I can mine with it OC'd and not make my office sound like a jet engine
 

Minerva

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,116
13
81
That all copper block looks nice but it won't after a few months all oxidized. It should be plated properly IMO.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
That all copper block looks nice but it won't after a few months all oxidized. It should be plated properly IMO.

I'll live, I'm not looking to win awards for looks in this thing. Also with the radiators on the side panel seeing anything in there will be pretty impossible. So far they have maintained their luster pretty well (its been 4ish months)
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Got all the parts after chasing my package around the city. Fedex failure...

The fans (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9123) and radiators look like they will fit perfectly. I can't fully test it till I dismantle my old loop and remove the 140mm radiator. I mounted the fans and radiators on the side panel of my HAF and tested then fan noise. The fans make a high pitched whine at full speed that I'm not sure I can live with. Looks like I'll be purchasing a fan controller. They do move and impressive amount of air for only being 12mm tall. Very little vibration as well.

The koolance res is very impressive. I know see with aigomorla pushes Koolance products, the quality is amazing.

Here is my plan for the loop. Sorry about the colors and the clutter. It is becoming quite a 3 dimensional project. Pink is the GPU loop, yellow is the CPU loop. I have a feeling I'm going to run into the need for some 90 degree elbows on this project...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/20810810150539184820077.jpg/

Excited to see for the CPU loop in particular. The temps should be impressive with the intense flow rates, and a 2x120mm radiator with a decently powerful fans.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Well it is assembled. I'll upload pics once I sort out my bleeding issue.

I'm having a hell of a time bleeding this loop. The Koolance Res just seems not very good for the job, compared to my little swiftech one. The other problem is the MCP-655s I have do not have flow rate control, they just run at max all the time. I'm watching bubbles get brought into the res, and then immediately sucked back in before they can escape. I have the case resting on its "back", meaning that the 5.25" bays are the highest point in the loop, and have been bleeding the system for a while. A few bubbles are making it out, but a majority of them are getting sucked back in and sent around again.

Any suggestions on how to bleed this bad boy?
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Perfect :D Got the adapter installed.

The bubbles are no longer being sucked in, water level in res is dropping as the air escapes :D
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Well the machine is up and running. I leak tested and bled it all night. CPU loop is happy and running amazingly well. Idle is 30C, full load is 40C.

The GPU loop is still being a pain to bleed, but the GPUs are idling at 25C, so I'm just going to let it run for a while longer and let it get all the bubbles out. The thing I'm wondering is if maybe I have an air leak? I can't see any water leaking out anywhere in the loop, but it seems like the bubbles just keep coming. Is it possible to have an air leak but not have a water leak? I guess I'll give it another 24 hours before I start getting really worried.

Edit: I got impatient and stress tested the GPUs. New GPU loop is epic.
IDLE : 25C
LOAD : 45C on both cards :D Might be time to overclock more.

Pics will follow shortly :D
 
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OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
My triple radiator setup became way too complicated to assemble, disassemble and bleed. When I got my new CPU, mobo, and RAM I let it sit for about a week because I was so unexcited about taking my computer apart. I figured this was wrong, I should look forward to new toys, not dread installing them. So my loop was modified once again.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The CPU is in its own loop with the 140mm RAD and the GPUs are in a loop with the 3x120mm rad. Both loops have MCP-655s in a Koolance 452x2 res. Besides being a pain to bleed with the 452x2 res is an amazing little piece of space saving engineering.

But it is maintenance time. Something in my loop is causing corrosion. The bleed kit and the res plug separator are corroding. I noticed this on my triple radiator setup and tracked it down to the danger den fittings I had. I replaced the one that was corroding (the rest looked fine) with the EK fittings I was using everywhere else in my loop, but I still have some danger den fittings in the loop. I thought it was maybe just one fitting that wasn't finished properly, but the corrosion continues. So I picked up some more EK fittings, snagged a new bleed kit and reservoir plug from Koolance and will be tearing my machine down next week to swap the DD fittings out and replace the corroding Koolance stuff.

Also replacing the 120mm scythe kaze fans (one of which had developed a weird intermittent chirping noise) with the 1850rpm typhoons. Lets see if these fans really are as amazing as people say :D

I'm also looking into a new case that I can run a 3x120mm rad and a 2x120mm rad. Also a modular PSU to replace my tx-850
 
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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,894
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126
lolz... again... now its madness.... :p
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
And this is why my bleeding issues exist.

http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1181

That piece came included, didn't know what it was and when reading the directions for installing the pump and such it did not mention it. Apparently my problem is a common one, looks like I'll be draining this thing and putting this in. Thanks Koolance.


Ok here is what my wife did . she got the the old RP 452x2 not the new ones . she got this as i insisted . not 1 air bubble. it was fast and easy to do . I cheated of course.. I also had her get a TNK 501 single bay so its a 3 bay system now and the face plates We designed and had machined to look like 1 unit . beutiful it be better than DDs 5 bay setup
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Time for another entry in the ever growing thread that documents the changes to my system.

So Christmas was kind to me this year and I decided I wanted to get rid of the weird 140mm radiator mounting setup I had and then replacing my Swiftech MCR320 with something with a bit more oomph. So I picked up an EK Coolstream 360 XTX and 120 XTX. Which is over twice as thick as the MCR320 with a slightly lower FPI (11 vs 14). The 120 XTX replaced my Black Ice SR-1 140 radiator that was awkwardly mounted on the bottom of my case with some great 180 degree tube bends.

Before:


After:
Zdcoj.jpg


Mmm, no more long tubes with 180 degree bends...
(also, the XTX 120 is mounted on the left side of the picture, Its quite thick, you can tell how close the fan is to the CPU socket. Sorry about the fail picture... moving this thing is a pain)

Results:
GPU loop:
Not the radiators fault, see edit below for why I failed
Very disappointed. I was expecting the XTX 360 to be superior to my MCR320, but it is significantly worse. Prior to the change my load temps were around 45C, now on the XTX 360 the temps rise over 60C. This is using the same fans, 3x GT AP-15s. I'm still in the process of figuring out if maybe the radiator is damaged in some way (blocked channels) or has some massive stuck bubble. I would think that with twice the thickness (even with a few less FPI) the performance would be better.

CPU loop:
Very pleased. The XTX 120 does a fantastic job getting rid of the heat from my CPU loop. It is paired with the 1450 rpm scythe GT (AP-14). So with a lower speed fan, and a smaller radiator I'm seeing the same load temps as my 140mm rad, but with significantly less noise. The machine is overall noticeably quieter.

This leads me to believe that the EK XTX is a good design with the XTX 120 being equally as good 140mm rad of the same thickness while using a lower RPM fan. But my XTX 360 is performing terribly compared to the MCR320. :confused: Anyone have any ideas?

Also one thing that is extremely important to note, is that the XTX radiators have 5 ports. 4 on top (2 on each side) and one on the bottom. While this is a nice feature, it makes it impossible to mount the radiators flush against the side of the case. Thankfully the 800D has a slightly recessed (from the perspective of the top of the case) 3x120mm radiator mounting. This gives enough clearance for the plugs.

In the case of the 120mm radiator I ended up using washers to get it far enough away from the wall of the case to clear the plugs. It takes about 3mm of washers to accomplish this. It isn't a huge burden, but it is something to keep in mind.

Edit: Looking at the pictures I noticed on my GPUs I had to switch which top port I was using on my EK bridge. In the previous setup, I used the left most port and the bottom output. In this configuration water has to travel through the blocks to to leave the bridge. In my current configuration the water now has a straight shot to the output at the bottom of the bridge. My theory is that, my GPUs are now getting crappy flow, because the water is just flying through the bridge and not giving much pressure to the GPUs. :mad: Looks like I'll be ordering a 45 degree fitting to fix this issue as my 120mm radiator and fan placement makes it impossible for me to move the top GPU input using barbs. Also this would explain why my flow rate is insane right now (based on that my kill coil is defying gravity like crazy). These is basically no resistance in my GPU loop, except for the radiator.

Proper configuration
LXuQz.jpg


Dumb configuration
iCc5S.jpg
 
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OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
Tweaking always continues.... Got the Dremel involved this time! Plus my thoughts on the 800D and my 1 year experience in watercooling.

n7ZB6.jpg


I cut holes and mounted my old 140mm rad from my HAF 932 setup. My cutting job is trash, but it was very easy. I'm surprised more people don't mount a 140mm radiator like this, it requires much less work than the typical 2x120mm rad mod that is seen on the 800D and you get to keep the bottom hard drive bays. My SB is now cooled by a 120mm rad and a 140mm rad. The 140mm fans that come with the 800D are quite wimpy. The bottom 140mm rad is soon to be replaced with a NB PK-3.

Sadly the results of my CPU loop are quite poor. I'm getting ~75C after a few passes of linx at 4.6ghz. The flowrate on the loop is significantly lower than my GPU loop, based on reservoir turbulence. I'll be tearing the loop apart tomorrow to check my CPU block and radiators. Also I might just need a reapplication of thermal paste.

Thoughts on the 800D in general:
A few months ago there was a quite a debate about the 800D in this forum. The conclusion was that it wasn't a great air cooling case, but it was a very good watercooling case. I am going to disagree with this statement. Instead I'll say: Air flow wise this case really isn't that good and that effects both water and air cooling setups.

If we think about the air flow on a 800D, the only air intake is on the bottom of the case, aided by a low rpm 140mm fan. In my configuration I then have 4x GT AP-15s pushing air through the two upper rads. The amount of air intake is not enough for this sort of setup. With the side panel on the case, the amount of air coming off the top rad is significantly less than if your pull the side panel off. Essentially the 800D, in this setup, is very restrictive air flow wise. This also results in about a 5C difference in temps on my GPUs with the side panel vs no side panel. The NB PK-3 will help mitigate this problem due to its significantly higher air flow vs the stock corsair fans. But the problem still remains for many people running 3x120mm rads on the top of this case.

One year later:
So it has been a little over a year since I "got wet" and here is what I think.
1. Expense: I have spent roughly ~$1500 on my setup over the year. If you look through this thread you will see how much my loop has grown, changed, tweaked, complicated, and then simplified. I also bought frivolous things like thicker radiators and as a result have 3 spare radiators sitting around... Water cooling = expensive, but how expensive is truly up to you. My initial outlay was $500 for an incredible system performance wise. The next $1000 have barely lowered my temps, made my loop prettier, and gave me hours of joy and some frustration. No regrets :D

2. Maintenance: Maintenance hasn't been too bad to be honest. It is a little frustrating when it needs to be done since I have to dedicate about 10 hours to completely drain, clean, and refill the system every 6 months or so. To me however, that is a small price to pay. Honestly my system is "high maintenance" only because I keep changing it :p

3. Weight: This isn't a consideration that most people discuss when they think about the pros and cons of a water cooling setup. However, my computer is 80+ pounds fully loaded. This isn't trivial if you have to move your computer for a LAN or do maintenance on it. Rotating an awkwardly large 80 pound computer to get bubbles out of it can be quite precarious. This partially led to the death of my HAF 932. Got a poor hold on the case and it tumbled. Thankfully nothing leaked...

4. Leaks: I have had them. I lost a video card. It sucks to re-buying things. Use real hose clamps or compression fittings. Real hose clamps is why my loop didn't leak when I dropped my 932.

5. Joy: I absolutely love having a liquid cooled computer. Coolness factor and tinkering fun trump all the above issues in my book. Its an on going project. Something I can research and read about almost endlessly. I enjoy Admiring other people's liquid cooled machines and get ideas while also offering ideas based on my experience. Also, 2x overclocked 6970s @ ~40-45C under full load? :cool: It is jolly good fun.

Edit: Koolance RP-452x2 Rev 2.0
SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER! Koolance finally got it right with revision 2.0 of this bay res. Bleeding is so much easier with this than the previous versions. I am finally satisfied with the RP-452x2
 
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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Ya the guys steered you in the right direction . Its funny how the parts we choose determines the performance . Aig acts like 2c isn't alot . But I don't agree . If its 2C or 3c per part used.
I really like the Aquacomputer modular rads . They do a great job at low fans speeds . I bought the 420 and the 360 and 280 . The last 2 are what my wife used . and my cousin used the same . I choose instead the 420 . Wife said it wouldn't fit. I told here its not the tape measure that matters its the person reading the tape . Its a perfect fit . I did have to remove and relocate 1 L bracket . easily done . The point is understanding your system flow .
Take the 420 modular with dual loops. One must be careful what size lines ya use . Bigger is not always better. These rads are low flow . So if you use them . Its better to use lower flowing blocks in single loop and dual loop.
The single loop rads are restrictive. Imagine if you will the dual loop models where a 70% 30% . Now AquaComputer states that the 30% loop is for memory blocks and the like. Which is likely true for most users . I choose to use it On the Cpu side when running SLi setups . But in single gpu I run the 30% to the GPU. I also using Aqua Computer Cpu water blocks . Also restrictive . See where this is going. I not sure if I will be able to get a AC GPU block for NV 680s but in the testing on the SB gaming system I used the 580s AC water blocks it actually cooled better than what I had befor . It dam-n well should for the $$$$$$$ I have spent .
Fans I went NO bling Pure performance . 100cfm at full speed . More than enough for these Rads which is what you want so you can tune for noise . 140 noise blockers are for me.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...et_Fan_-_1700_RPM_-_27_dBA.html?tl=g36c15s775

You will likely finish up befor me. As I am having 2 parts re protyped. I do have a pic of the reservoir system I created from some Pooorly made Koolance parts . Everyone here was against me showing the system semi complete . But this part I can show as only 10 will ever exist . As we are making our own. To be fair to Koolance we ARE coping there Pump mounts for the 452x2 Reservoirs Exactly with 1 exception . There will be no return lines to that pump section. There is good reason for this . But I will cover that latter. Hopefully I should post the Pump reservoir section FRiday. AS I can show the front only . Things here I want No one to see until we have our own reservoirs completed and ready for sales . The testing tho has been a wonderfull success.
 
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