God does not Exist: Therefore there is no self to pity, hate, defend, or feed.

[Dr. Zaus]

Does God Exist?

The only way to get to a Christian Universalist perspective is to start by accepting the premise of Atheism. Not weak atheism that muddles what we get at when we say agnostic. Instead we must start with the basic Atheist assumption to the question Does God Exist? And we must answer it, without question, No!

However, to get any further, to make any sense, we must understand why it is that we say God does not exist. Our first premise, of course, is that we are getting at some idea that we can share when we say God. So, for me, this is where we start our discussion: What is this God that does not exist?

God, this eternal being with qualities of love and forgiveness and judgment and so on, is not what a true atheist is talking about. True Atheism requires there be no God at all: not even a disinterested one. Surely not an interested God, but also not some distant God that is inherent in all things.

Instead, and this is the most important thing to say here, very specifically: God does not exist, because to exist a thing must be created. God, by definition, is supposed to be the creator, and therefore cannot exist. This is precisely the opposite of the idea that God must exist because you can imagine an ever greater being. Instead, it is clear, that God cannot exist for the very fact that no matter how great the being is that you imagine: it must come from somewhere, even nothingness, which is greater still than that being that you imagine.

So we have it, God does not exist. We can all be happy knowing that existence is a bit of a fluke upon an unending landscape of meaningless events. But since we are here, and there’s really no ultimate meaning to anything, perhaps we should just be good to each other, enjoy the flickering shadows on the wall, sustain our earth, and so on. However, since it is fun to think about these things, why don’t we just ask a few more questions and see what possibilities our mind can create; already, of course, knowing that God does not exist. So since we are assuming that God does not exist, let us think about what that really means.

Does a thing that does not exist act upon that which does exist?

This question, on the surface of it, seems rather stupid. Clearly that which does not exist cannot, therefore, act upon that which does exist. But answering this does a very important job of single handedly defeating the pragmatic argument for God. If as we see agnosticism is really just weak theism, so too we can see that pragmatic belief in God is really just implicit Atheism. It is to say: Ok, good point, God does not exist out there, but here in the social world the idea of God has a big influence.

And this is true enough, as ideas have very big influences on how we pre-form our world, how we assume others will interact, what creates legitimacy and so forth. But this is not the argument of someone that believes, in God, but instead someone that is already cynical regarding God but wants to prop the puppet because the show is good. Simply put, it is clear, that since God does not exist God cannot act upon that which does exist. So now we go on, for the same reasons as before, keeping in mind all we have said, we ask:

Does that which does not exist surround that which exists?

Perhaps not, perhaps the nothing in which things have emerged does not continue on in its infinite potential but collapsed or was consumed-away in the moment of creation. Or perhaps we can say: well this question doesn’t make any sense, there is nothing to be around something, therefor to speak of nothing, is simply to make fools of ourselves. But perhaps we don’t; and so if we continue to follow the reasoning as stated above for moving forward with our potentially foolish questions, then we are left with no answer but “Of course.”

Of course nothing surrounds that which exists, it is the very definition of a thing that exists to say that it is present against that which does not exist. So, simply said, if that which does not exist surrounds that which does exist, and we already know, it is clear that it is clear God must be that which does not exist, then it is God that surrounds that which does exist. We remind ourselves, of course, that by the very definition of God as not existing, God cannot act upon that which exists; so pragmatically we’ve really only treaded some water.

However, we say it again anyway, and this may accidentally bring up some wrong notions that are important philosophically, sociologically, and so on: this idea of the influence of negative space, silence, the other, the ‘not’ that is a void. And we must be precise here: We are not saying that there is a ‘not’ space which limits or acts upon that which exists. We are true atheists, and for something truly not to exist, it must not act upon that which exists. It is simply that, logically, and if we allow ourselves this way of expressing the thing we are thinking, which happens also to be where the very best theoretical physicists like Leonard Susskind have ended up, the same nothing from which all what which exists comes also still surrounds all that which exists. And so with non-existence surrounding all that exists, as our best physicists tell us is the case, we ask another stupid question:


Does that which encompasses have form?


Here again we have asked an idiotic question. Of course, there is no ‘outside’ to nothingness. There cannot be an outside form for something for which there is no container. So while, if as in the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, we divide any one bit of existence across the nothing that surrounds it, we would get a number close enough to nothing that it really doesn’t matter. So anything you think you see is not so much an illusion as it is an illusion that it is anything but the basic form of all existence. As we know, this is where Libnitz concept of calculus comes from and also his further philosophies on God, arguing that ours is the best possible world. However, we can see right off, exactly how stupid this question is, because it is obvious that the nothing that surrounds existence is not relevant when it comes to distances and so on. But perhaps there is another way to look at it.

Again, remembering all that we have just said, there is also no reason why form must only be thought of as a container; perhaps it is enough simply to say that there is something, and therefore the form of nothing is to be that which surrounds something. In this way, we see that where there is nothing something has etched away at nothing, leaving in its wake the form of nothing behind it. This makes it easy to conclude, should we wish to continue thinking like this, that since God does not exist, the form of that nonexistence is the etching away at it by that which does exist. But then, if we have this etching away at nothingness so that there is something, we can ask a further question about the etching:

Is there information stored in that which does not exist?

Once more, we see a stupid question. Clearly for nothing to be nothing it cannot have a mechanism by which it stores or retrieves information. There cannot be, behind nothing, a great cosmic savior who will resurrect us all, bringing us back to life, and giving us an eternity either worshiping it, walking around some perfected planet, creating babies for our own planets, and so forth. Anything one would wish to ascribe to God that could be of any real value cannot occur, because not only does god not exist, but within that which does not exist there is no memory of creation stored in some place within nothingness for later remembrance or use.

This though does not deny that there may be a form to non-existence. That form takes shape relative to that which exists, and so the etching away of non-existence holds within it an imprint of all that has existed. This imprint of creation upon the surrounding nothingness out of which creation comes serves as a storage of information for everything that has ever happened or will ever happen. It is not, of course, stored in the sense of something out there intentionally remembering anything, but instead what must happen if there is something surrounded by nothing.

Keeping in mind all of the essential limitations of nothingness, we again affirm our disbelief, and say that God does not exist. This nonexistence surrounds everything. This surrounding of everything has a form, exactly where everything is not. This form of nothing stores information in terms of where nothing has been etched away at. Therefore the form of God is an etching of everything that exists. Clearly this argument can’t possibly hold if God exists, but also it cannot hold if we do not affirm the lack of existence, or if we appeal to some other thought. But holding firm to God as that which does not exist, we may conclude, if that is our preference, that upon the nothing is etched everything. If we are willing to take this step, then clearly another one is implied.

Can this information be retrieved?

Again, as always, this is a question with an obvious answer. It makes no sense to repeat here the well founded and accurate argument of Gödel, that no system can prove itself. Simply put there is no way for what is essentially the storage of all of the information within a system to retrieve the information in that system: the very act of retrieve that information would change the information stored and the only logical result is infinite recursion. Again we reach a point where we can stop, enjoy life, and just care about people.

However, since we’ve gone so far, why not allow ourselves another degree of freedom. Let us imagine that existence is such that out of the nothing from which everything was created there can immerge another being that encapsulates the already extant. This greater being would essentially encapsulate and re-capitulate all of existence as it is but in creating something again would etch again against nothingness. There is really no reason to think that this entity that reads and re-capitulates existence is benevolent, evil, kind, or in any way interested. In fact, the most simplistic form of this greater being is the one we would expect to see almost every time; and that is just enough of a greater being that there is the smallest etch-able change in nonexistence.

This greater being is clearly not God for two very important reasons. First, we have already done away with God: it is very clear that if we accepted the assumptions needed to believe in God, instantly, and imbedded in that thinking, we would find that God cannot exist. Second, even if we want to take a lesser God, an approach to God as the greatest created who then leads to and creates everything else, we still turn up empty. As, when we look at the deepest reaches of physics, it looks very much like God is playing dice with the universe. In the phenomenal sense, God does not play dice with the universe, everything seems cohesive, but when we look deeply we see that the nothing upon which something is etched occurs over time and space; but time and space are barely coherent. At the smallest unit there are times when time goes backward, times when spaces collapse, when things are and are not at the same time; the universe is incoherent.

Working against this, though, seems to be a tendency for linear flow of time that looks, from the less-deep perspective, like everything trucks along at a fairly reasonable pace. So while there are ongoing new frames and uses, and re-creations of everything in wildly varying manners; there also seems to be a central tendency in all the randomness. It seems that every moment we see another re-capitulation of all existence in such a way as is almost as perfectly the same as the last, though just a bit different. So time moving forward is another etching against nothingness, which recapitulates the memory of the previous etching, allowing for the smallest changes possible. We call this universe moving forward in time a greater being; but it’s really a very similar being to that of the universe that was before. So while everything is not God, there is a being we can call everything which uses the etching upon nothing that came before it to be a new being that is only in the slightest way different. Spinoza’s ‘everything’ being must, of course, exist for ‘everything’ to be anything that can draw upon the etching of ‘something’ against nothing; and so we ask


Must this being exist?

It is clear that nothing must be except for the ego at the very moment in which an observer observes the ego. Everything else could be phantasmagoria, implanted, or otherwise simulated such as does not qualify as existence. Even that ego does not need to exist, excepting in a momentary illusion of what is to be expressed. However, this is no ontological argument, we affirm the lack of existence of God; and in that affirmation we imply our own existence. So from our strong Atheistic stance we also assume we exist: and why not.

So if we are go assume that we exist, that there is nothing surrounding everything, that existence emerged from nothing, and that therefore there is infinite potential. Within this infinite potential all beings that might be must be. So while the day to day of the next moment after the next moment is a recapitulation at the basic form, it is also necessary that the next being of the universe, in its next configuration, exist. More than that, surrounding even temporality a greater being must emerge.

A recapitulation of existence that has present any attribute which can exist. God does not exist, therefore the being that retrieves the information etched upon that which does not exist must itself come into existence. This being could be thought of as simply the universe taking another step forward in time. However since every being that is greater than a single step forward in time must also exist to encompass all of time, that too must exist: unless that being cannot exist.

What cannot exist?

Clearly that which does not exist cannot exist. Therefore, as we started, God cannot exist. More importantly, though, that which removes information etched upon non-existence cannot exist. There is no way to ‘scrub’ from the face of nonexistence the etching of existence; only a new existence where in what previously was etching etches in some new way. This conservation of energy and matter seems to dominate the various ways in which that which does exist proceeds in future states of the universe. Since the information etched upon non-existence can only be added to by that which is created, there is only ever more information to be etched.

God does not exist, therefore the retrieval of the information etched upon that which does not exist must occur. What can exist, in every moment, are moments that recapitulate existence in such a way as are orthogonal temporally. Those in which the next most minor step is taken in a different way. The question then becomes one of potential for agency

Might this being be capricious, judgmental, rewarding, kind, loving, wrathful, and so on?

Since any moment can be recapitulated by a new being in such a way as follows the regular course of time, almost all recapitulations follow time in such a way as requires no agency. However, since agency on the part of the recapitulation of existence is a possibility there is the potential for new beings to recapitulate a universe in such a way as judges the universe. Since there is no agency within nothingness, the agency cannot be pre-formed exo-nilo; but instead must emerge from within the universe itself. Therefore, observations of the universe create a judgment of the universe that then creates that universe. Of course. All attributes toward which might be an attribute of any being must be created which makes use of the information etched upon that which does not exist.

God does not exist, therefore a being with the qualities of retrieving the information etched upon that which does not exist in a judgmental (etc.) manner must exist. This being comes as a matter of re-etching a universal possibilities that are etched into it by the mind of those that observe. But how far can this go?

Does that being too, in its judgment, etc. further etch upon that which does not exist?

Of course. Everything that can be created, including the thing around everything that is created, must be created and further etches upon that which does not exist. This many worlds idea implies that the capricious observations and thoughts and directions of our minds imprint against the universe and bring about a universe in which that which was imprinted comes back into existence. Since the distribution of which and all of these recapitulations one is observing in seems random, when we observe where a light particle is, we think of it as present in one location. And it is. However, that location of the partial is also informative; telling us where we are located as well.

God does not exist, therefore a being that is greater than the being that retrieves the information etched upon that which does not exist must exist to retrieve the information that is etched upon that which does not exist by the being that previously undertook the retrieval.


Is there a logic, direction, or end to this framing of beings?

And here we have the ultimate question that we have answered in the negative the entire way. If a series of beings that are entirely random emerge, one after another, covering all potential beings in all potential directions of creation, particularly inclusive of those beings that are judgmental, evil, good, and so on, there seems to be only chaos. However we might act as if there is some ordering to this all.

At best, then, we can argue that there is a forward existing being in the next minimum level of forward action; and at best a greater being that is less impactful, judgmental, and so forth, than the previous being. Because the space between any one being and another greater being must be that of a lesser influence on judgment; so as to itself create less to be capitulated by more beings, the final being is that which ironically is closest to “God” who does not exist. So the final being of recapitulation is that being that recapitulates nothing different from the being before it. As a greater being is created around a greater being such that it retrieves information etched upon nonexistence by the previous greater being the last greater being is that which retrieves all etches upon existence of the greater beings but does not then create any further.

God does not exist, therefore a being that retrieves information etched upon that which does not exist and does not judge (etc.) that existence must exist, leaving this as the final being as the only further etching for it to know of is its own existence which becomes recursive, making any further beings precisely the same as this being.


Does this matter in the human frame of reference?

Of course. Every possible greater being with a proclivity toward a particular judgment (etc.) must eventually exist, retrieving our existence from its etching upon nothing. While that which we do not do does not happen, thoughts of that which we do not do are eternally etched upon non-existence and will also be retrieved.

God does not exist, therefore all thoughts that we have will be retrieved and enacted.


Does this matter in an eternal sense?

Of course. Since the final greatest created being is that which simply recapitulates all existence subsidiary to it, all thoughts are manifest in that being; subsequent creation of re-creation of ever greater being creating an unending repetition of re-capitulation of all thoughts etched upon non-existence.

God does not exist, therefore at the greatest being we have a sense of all of our existence across all of the existences we have had in our minds.


Beyond that recapitulation is there anything else?

Of course. There are an infinite number of other 'selves' that are similar to, but incomparable with, the stream of thought and structure of embodied identities that may have defined self. However the ego-disillusion at that level makes such being at that level out side of our own being.

God does not exist, therefore there are a unending number of similar selves which too will be recapitulated.


Is there a greatest self for humanity?

Of course. As we move from specified to de-specified selves the greater self etched upon non-existence transcends individual ego and incorporates a corpus of humanity into a single-type being that has gone through all greater beings until finally integrating with the final created being.

God does not exist, therefore humanity at the highest level goes through all beings and is finally recapitulated at the greatest being unchanged.

But what if this isn't true?

It isn't; it's an outward expression of a series of thoughts which swirl around the nothing at the center of being; a vain attempt to attribute to the outside world the inner mind and the nature of its own existence... In this we finally see, God is in each other, and in being God one's self before God we have no reason for self-pitty, self-hate, no defense against guilt, no guilt, no self to feed... as there is no self and no difference amongst ourselves: the only thing left is to recognize and love the God (that which does not exist) within that is the unity and potential of all.

 

[MongGrel]

You haven't learned to engage your inner Narcissus.

It seems to be all the rage these days, in politics, religion, the media, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_%28mythology%29

I'm only kidding a slight bit, actually.

It's rampant these days, is a large reason everything is so PC.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is There a God?

Does God exist? Here are six straightforward reasons to believe that God is really there.


By Marilyn Adamson

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html



Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has wide margin between its boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

proof of GodNinety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

existence of GodScientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

existence of GodHow is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

proof of GodHe said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.

existence of GodDoes God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20

Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.

 

[elitejp]

deleted

 

[sandorski]

For the nth time

Theism/Atheism are positions of Belief

Gnostic/Agnostic are positions of Knowledge

An Atheist does not need to Know that there is "no god". It merely needs to not believe that any god exists.

 

[elitejp]

a belief is based on a position of knowledge. If you have never heard of something then you could never believe in something.

 

[Retro Rob]

Well, the DC has been slow for months..

Time for a good troll thread, I'd say.

 

[nakedfrog]

Is There a God?

Does God exist? Here are six straightforward reasons to believe that God is really there.


By Marilyn Adamson

Douglas Adams' puddle:
"This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'"

 

[Phanuel]

a belief is based on a position of knowledge. If you have never heard of something then you could never believe in something.

This. It's not that I believe there is no god, it's that I don't believe there is one. And it would take pretty much an impossibility to convince me that one exists.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke.

 

[Retro Rob]

Douglas Adams' puddle:
"This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'"

Actually, I measured out a mudhole and dug it to hold exactly 3 gallons of water, so yes, it was made to have him in it.

 

[sandorski]

Actually, I measured out a mudhole and dug it to hold exactly 3 gallons of water, so yes, it was made to have him in it.

Have evidence of this Digger?

 

[jackstar7]

Actually, I measured out a mudhole and dug it to hold exactly 3 gallons of water, so yes, it was made to have him in it.

Anthropomorphizing unstable amounts of water.

Check.

 

[Retro Rob]

Have evidence of this Digger?

We have evidence that mudpuddles are/can be designed. Heck, go dig one yourself.

I get the point of that quote, but he was better off with using something not so easily done in the human world.

 

[sandorski]

We have evidence that mudpuddles are/can be designed. Heck, go dig one yourself.

I get the point of that quote, but he was better off with using something not so easily done in the human world.

You didn't really undermine the argument though.

 

[Retro Rob]

You didn't really undermine the argument though.

Didn't have to -- it undermined itself.

 

[sandorski]

Didn't have to -- it undermined itself.

Negative.

 

[nakedfrog]

We have evidence that mudpuddles are/can be designed. Heck, go dig one yourself.

I get the point of that quote, but he was better off with using something not so easily done in the human world.

It doesn't really feel like you did, IMO.

 

[jackstar7]

Erosion... the myth?

 

[Phanuel]

As the puddle evaporates, are you going to reduce the volume of the hole you dug so that its surface remains constant with the ground around it?

 

[justoh]

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/owlprint/724/

Random reference. I'm sure there are better ones. I don't know. Just use some kind of structure.

It's relevant, since presumably you want people to read your "argument," or whatever it is. I bet nobody got through more than a few paragraphs, all the while thinking (what's this about? What's coming up? Is it worth reading).

 

[JEDIYoda]

so now we go back and forth...back and forth..prove it...do you have any scientific proof...lol..prove it...prove God exists...you have to because you say God exists! Prove he does not exist -- I do not have to prove that god does not exist -- because you do not have to prove a negative...lol....whatever.....more atheist talking points!!

How was churxh last week? You know the First Community Atheist Church....lololol

 

[sm625]

You cannot prove that god does not exist. You will never be able to prove that god does not exist. It is however possible that there may one day be proof that god does exist.

So on the one hand you have something that is possible, while on the other had you have something that is flatly not possible and will never be possible. Therefore any rational person must lean towards that which is at least possible vs that which is clearly not possible.

 

[MajinCry]

Bah. You religious lads need to go watch some Christopher Hitchens. The man's dead, but his youtube videos ain't.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Bah. You religious lads need to go watch some Christopher Hitchens. The man's dead, but his youtube videos ain't.

who? It`s easy to talk yourself into believing that God does not exist! That dude never did prove that God does not exist!!

 

[jackstar7]

You cannot prove that god does not exist. You will never be able to prove that god does not exist. It is however possible that there may one day be proof that god does exist.

So on the one hand you have something that is possible, while on the other had you have something that is flatly not possible and will never be possible. Therefore any rational person must lean towards that which is at least possible vs that which is clearly not possible.

So close!