God damn Semi-trucks with snow on their roof... Cousin got in an accident

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

crosshairs

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2007
1,078
0
76
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey

and crosshairs, it's only a hazard if it comes off and causes damage/injury

I can almost agree with that ..almost...
but.................. and you knew there would be a but ...

What about if you were driving down the highway, and there was a pothole the size of Texas......would that only be a hazard if you hit it?
I would call it a hazard just because its there...not hitting it makes it no less of a hazard...I consider ice on a roof the same thing....I would label it a hazard....perhaps a hazard waiting to happen, but a hazard all the same.

Its a good debate all the same.:)
 

tami

Lifer
Nov 14, 2004
11,588
3
81
Originally posted by: CraKaJaX

Originally posted by: tami
where was the accident? on 87? near where?

Not on 87, but on route 28 down near Woodstock going towards Hunter. I was saying that I see it ALL the time on 87 though.

yeah. it happened on my way to work on monday. not big chunks of ice, but large enough pieces that caused people to slam on their brakes/swerve.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
not one person has posted a link that states " it is against the law to not clean the hood/roof/trunk along with the windshield/windows. No one here is getting owned but the flock .

Just drink the Kool-Aid and get it over with

Massachusetts does not appear to have a law (in the MGL) specifically related to this situation (they do have some others, such as specifically making it illegal to drive unregistered or illegally modified vehicles). However, there are several laws that give the RMV the ability to create further rules and regulations around operation of motor vehicles. Essentially, anything in the driver's manual is "the law", in addition to any specific laws passed by Congress.

From Chapter 3 of the Massachusetts Driver's Manual

Before driving, remove ice and snow from
your vehicle. Clear all windows, windshield
wipers, headlights, and brake lights. Clear
ice and snow from your vehicle?s roof so
they do not blow off while you?re driving and
create hazards for drivers behind you.

In Massachusetts, at least, you have to clean snow and ice off a vehicle before driving.

I can't speak directly to other states (since I'm not inclined to go research other laws that won't regularly affect me right now), but I'm nearly certain that every state has a law saying you can't do things that obstruct other drivers' view, and/or dump things from your vehicle onto the road. Even if, technically, "having snow on your vehicle while driving" isn't spelled out as illegal -- "having snow/ice flying off your vehicle onto the roadway and other people's vehicles" almost certainly is. And since driving around with a ton of snow on your vehicle will lead to the latter, it could reasonably be considered some kind of reckless driving (since you're operating the vehicle in a way that is likely to cause a violation).
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
81
Wow, just be glad that no one was sitting in the passenger seat... if the headrest came right off, imagine what would have happened to the head??? :Q
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,023
8,298
136
Good thing she didn't have a passenger in the front. It would have been the person's head and not just the headrest that the ice would have removed. Glad to hear that your cousin is okay. People in SUVs tend to be pretty bad with clearing the tops of their cars too; they just don't bother pushing the snow off the roof.
 

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
1
0
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
"But he should know that he had 10 inches of snow on his roof."

and that's his fault how?


Do you clean all the snow off your car before you drive?......... Didn't think so!

I'd might as well help pile it on the donkey.

I Do!
 

VirginiaDonkey

Golden Member
May 18, 2001
1,704
0
0
CraKaJaX-
in all seriousness, i'm glad your cousin wasn't hurt.

This has been a fun debate and will join in on the next topic that I find interesting

2 people were able to link a state guideline for snow/ice....thanks!

And there are probably a few in this thread that Do clean the snow/ice from their car, but not all of you.

Me personally- I clean all the glass, and brush off all that i can from the rest of the car. If it won't come off at that time, it stays
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
Jeff7: of course you follow along with the flock
I happen to, I suppose. But I've been clearing all the snow off my car long before this thread started.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
CraKaJaX-
in all seriousness, i'm glad your cousin wasn't hurt.

This has been a fun debate and will join in on the next topic that I find interesting

2 people were able to link a state guideline for snow/ice....thanks!

And there are probably a few in this thread that Do clean the snow/ice from their car, but not all of you.

Me personally- I clean all the glass, and brush off all that i can from the rest of the car. If it won't come off at that time, it stays

I see way too many people here in Northern Virginia that do nothing more than clear a little hole on the drivers side windshield when it snows. They should get a ticket that results in a loss of driving privileges for a month when they do that. I bet you would see a hell of a lot less of it then.
 

Aquila76

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
3,549
1
0
www.facebook.com
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
"But he should know that he had 10 inches of snow on his roof."

and that's his fault how?


Do you clean all the snow off your car before you drive?......... Didn't think so!

It's a minimum $250 fine if you fail to do so in MA. And it is readily enforced, especially on the highways.
I'd do it even if there wasn't a fine; it's just common courtesy to the other drivers.
 

CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
Originally posted by: Aquila76
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
"But he should know that he had 10 inches of snow on his roof."

and that's his fault how?


Do you clean all the snow off your car before you drive?......... Didn't think so!

It's a minimum $250 fine if you fail to do so in MA. And it is readily enforced, especially on the highways.
I'd do it even if there wasn't a fine; it's just common courtesy to the other drivers.

And common sense, really.
 

Showtime

Platinum Member
Jun 16, 2002
2,016
0
76
Wow! Thank God she is alive. Now there is another thing to think about when passing a big rig.
 

wetcat007

Diamond Member
Nov 5, 2002
3,502
0
0
I know someone who had this happen to them on a highway with just a concrete barrier in the middle, from a truck going the opposite way, impossible to get the license plate unfortunately.
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
0
0
I feel bad for your cousin (and glad she is fine) but everybody knows that snow and ice is a hazard and that it's often unavoidable to have some ice fly off vehicles at some point.

Usually a big rig that's about to crap a load of snow and ice off of it has stuff falling off of it beforehand although there is always that "big sheet" lifting off that you never expect. I always give big trucks plenty of breathing space on the road for this and other reasons (if you've ever seen a big rig lose a wheel or blow out a tire you know what I'm saying).

I clean as much snow as is practical but have been known to let the snow fall back off too. Hey, when it's 5 friggin degrees and you gotta drive 27 miles to a job you don't worry about a few inches of snow that will fall off on the way. You gotta be tough to live in the arctic, lol.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I have seen lots of things fly off semi trailers, including a hammer once, but I've never had a problem with hitting their stuff because I follow at a reasonable distance.

Thank You. Finally.


Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
If you are following close enough to get hit by a sheet of ice coming off a car then you are................................TAILGATING ..........................and that makes it your fault!

um...no
Maybe you should look up the distance for tailgating. 2 seconds behind (not 1 car length per 10mph as some people believe.) Sorry, but chunks of ice hit the ground in less than 2 seconds. Now, if they were to hit the adjacent lanes when a car was passing, that's different. But you're following too closely if this is a problem (chunks of ice hitting you when you're not passing). (Also, I'm not saying that it's always possible to follow at a safe distance, especially on busy turnpikes.)

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
"But he should know that he had 10 inches of snow on his roof."
and that's his fault how?
Do you clean all the snow off your car before you drive?......... Didn't think so!
The driver is responsible for the safe operation of their own vehicle.
No exceptions.
Agreed. That includes the idiot behind me not allowing a safe distance when snow flies off my car. I'll remove it if it's chunky ice on the roof, but after a one foot snowfall, I clean all of my windows off completely, around the headlights and tail lights, and quickly brush off the hood with my arm to remove the bulk of it. Then, I drive to work and park next to the other 30 cars with snow on their roofs. Then again, I'm in a rural area where I don't have to worry about people being right behind me on the road.

edit: one more thing for some of you short-sighted people... I've left home and have driven 45 miles (I'm in western NY) - by the time I've reached my destination, I have several inches of snow on my vehicle. What do you expect people to do, pull over every 4 miles and brush the snow off?
 

intogamer

Lifer
Dec 5, 2004
19,219
1
76
Heh some woman in the city (Boston) drove with a 3inch snow/ice stuck covered on the passenger windshield.

She probably was divorced and didn't have a man to take that other chunk off!
 

sisq0kidd

Lifer
Apr 27, 2004
17,043
1
81
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
"But he should know that he had 10 inches of snow on his roof."

and that's his fault how?


Do you clean all the snow off your car before you drive?......... Didn't think so!
Originally posted by: CraKaJaX
Are you stupid? Yes I do actually.
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
I do.
Originally posted by: compnovice
Well I know that I do.... 15 minutes of my time is worth reducing a chance to cause an accident.
Originally posted by: waggy
yes i do.
Originally posted by: chusteczka
I do also.
Originally posted by: cliftonite
I do and I take care to clean all of it off the roof to avoid these situations.
Originally posted by: Jawo
Yup I actually do! Takes forever, but I dont want to blind other drivers!
Originally posted by: mitaiwan82
I like to wet my car before an impending freeze so I may be be involved a situation like the OP.
Originally posted by: Amused
You can add another person to your thread full of ownage.
Originally posted by: WhoBeDaPlaya
Yes, I do.
Originally posted by: pontifex
uh, YES!
Originally posted by: mryellow2
I sure as hell do.
Originally posted by: moshquerade
yes, i do!
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
YES I DO. and it is irresponsible for anyone NOT to do so.
Originally posted by: Suture
I know I do. It pisses me off when people are too lazy to be considerate to others and have snow and ice flying off their cars.
Originally posted by: Lumathix
I would certainly clean it off my semi, especially considering it would be my JOB to do so.
Originally posted by: grrl
I Do!

I now pronounce you all husband and wife.

Ouch, fatality.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: VirginiaDonkey
If you are following close enough to get hit by a sheet of ice coming off a car then you are................................TAILGATING ..........................and that makes it your fault!

me getting owned?....I don't know about that

looks like a bunch of " I clean off my car all the time" because in this thread it sounds like the right thing to do (hypocrites)

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG

on all three counts.

- M4H


in fairness, take 2 normal sedans

if the ice comes off the one in front, and through your windshield, you were travelling too close.

the height difference between the cars is minimal, if ice drops off it'll fall, but if your're 3-4 seconds back, like you should be in wet conditions on a motorway the ice should hit the floor long before you reach it.

thanks to laws of probability though, there is a chance that ice could get caught by the wind in a particular way and fly up into the air, before crashing down. its been in the air longer, and fallen from a higher height. its got more chance of hitting you where it hurts.

ive worked it out i think

using drag and suvat equations, its a very simplistic calc though so i might be way wrong

but i used a chunk of ice, 0.1m thick, 0.1m long, 1.5m wide
density of ice is 917kg/m cubed so its 13.75kg in mass

i said the car was 1.5m high

so dropping that ice from that height takes 0.55 seconds

then using drag and working out the deceleration at 0.1sec intervals i concluded that the ice, which leaves the car travelling 30m/s, is slowed to 26.4m/s before it hits the deck.

meaning it falls 15.5 m from the back of the car it came from. and the car behind should have a closing speed of 3.6m/s

at 70mph

using the 2 second rule, the distance between cars is consderably larger.

from a truck, whats the height of a truck. 5m say? in that case it takes 1 second for the ice to drop 5m, in that time it will of decelerated to about 24m/s, and you have a closing of 6m/s

falling 27m behind.

now all that would change depending on the size of the ice, its frontal area to the wind, whether it acted like a wing and generated lift (did not account for lift) etc etc etc and in this accident she was beside the truck so 2/4 sec rules dont really count.

the higher it is, the harder if falls though.

from a car, i doubt she'd of been hurt, or the car seriously damaged. she might of had to swerve though which on a motorway is dangerous and reason enough to remove the ice from vehicles as it is, but this fell from a lorry, with the height advantage its easier for the ice to drop onto the windshield, and its had more time to decelerate. from a car there is no height advantage and its had much less time to declerate.

so from a car behind car perspective. if you get hit with ice from the car infront, theres a good chance your following too closely. same applies with the truck, only less so since you could actually be a reasonable distance (these 2/4 sec rules are based on braking time) and still get hit.

however here, she was side by side or at least coming up next to the truck when the ice broke. which meant she had no choice but to be close.

either way it should be just common courtesy to do it, it makes everyones life easier on the road.

another hazard i think is the big rocks of ice that build up on the underside of the trailers. the big mud flaps and wheel arches seem to collect alot of dirty grotty water off the road and it freezes. over time you end up with a massive chunck of ice that eventually falls off under its own weight.

being close to the ground theres no chance of getting a face full of ice, but once they land they slow very quickly, the cars behind will have significant closing speeds so hitting one would probably mash the front of the car in. swerving to avoid it is probably just as dangerous as hitting it.
 

TrukinDave

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2005
3,197
0
76
Hello

Im not defending either side, Just voice an opinion.

I drove a truck for 25 years, (0) tickets

There is a law that covers ice, snow or whatever that comes off a vehicle in certain states. If this causes an accident or property damage you are liable in those states.

But just understand when you are at a truckstop, Toll plaze, rest area an so on.. And you are parked at night and it starts snowing, How do you expect drivers to get on top of A 13'6 Trailer to remove ice and snow? The roofs on the trailers are made of metal or fiberglass. If you start trying to break ice off the roof of a trailer with a Fiberglass roof. You are going to damage the roof. Then more danger kicks in, Once a roof either metal or Fiberglass gets a hole in it and its an enclosed trailer, That can cause the whole entire roof to peel off going down the road.
 

CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
Originally posted by: TrukinDave
Hello

Im not defending either side, Just voice an opinion.

I drove a truck for 25 years, (0) tickets

There is a law that covers ice, snow or whatever that comes off a vehicle in certain states. If this causes an accident or property damage you are liable in those states.

But just understand when you are at a truckstop, Toll plaze, rest area an so on.. And you are parked at night and it starts snowing, How do you expect drivers to get on top of A 13'6 Trailer to remove ice and snow? The roofs on the trailers are made of metal or fiberglass. If you start trying to break ice off the roof of a trailer with a Fiberglass roof. You are going to damage the roof. Then more danger kicks in, Once a roof either metal or Fiberglass gets a hole in it and its an enclosed trailer, That can cause the whole entire roof to peel off going down the road.

A very good point, but as for the states that DO issue tickets , the truckers obviously get them off somehow. I'm not against you or anything, I'm just saying there must be a way to get it off. I mean, a $250 ticket vs. a couple thousand dollars in damage to the car behind you... it's a lose lose situation, so why wouldn't you clean it off? Truckers obviously clean it in the states where it's illegal. How? I have no idea.
 

TrukinDave

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2005
3,197
0
76
I can answer that

If they are close to a Truck wash. They have the means to get on top and powerwash the ice off the truck with a de-icer solution. But sometimes like in Mass, DC, MD, PA, NY, Alot of the eastern and Northeastern states its hard to find a truckstop or a Truck Wash facility. If the snow is a powder and its done snowing, Snow can blow off a truck in 20-30 minutes.

 

CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
Originally posted by: TrukinDave
I can answer that

If they are close to a Truck wash. They have the means to get on top and powerwash the ice off the truck with a de-icer solution. But sometimes like in Mass, DC, MD, PA, NY, Alot of the eastern and Northeastern states its hard to find a truckstop or a Truck Wash facility. If the snow is a powder and its done snowing, Snow can blow off a truck in 20-30 minutes.

Alright, well using a little bit of my brain... here's what I've come up with. Why don't truckers keep their own powerwasher with them with de-icer solution? Someone mentioned a while back in this thread to have a ladder hang off the side of the truck somehow, that way you would have no problem power washing the top of your truck. Maybe even have something that heats the roof of the trucks so you wouldn't even have to worry about it. Just thinking.
 

Skotty

Senior member
Dec 29, 2006
232
0
0
I assume snow on a trailer (as in, tractor/trailer) is generally considered an acceptable hazard. I think truck drivers are on deadlines, and having to climb on top of their rig and shovel snow off of their trailer seems ... well ... I doubt any of them do it. (I could be wrong...really need some truck drivers to comment on this). Not to say they aren't liable for damages if it causes an accident though.

Some of you guys are way to uptight about this kind of stuff. Life has risks and most people aren't going to be willing to pay more for shipping so that truckers can have expensive snow clearing equipment.
 

BassBomb

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2005
8,390
1
81
I get so mad about cars that do not clean all the snow off.

Its great that you can see other cars, but when we cant see you because you are still covered in snow and look like nothing because we dont see your lights... thats very safe.