GM tranny's, no dipstick!

[BUTCH1]

It's stuff like this that leaves one scratching one's head, I did a "cheater change" (no filter) on my tranny, had to raise car, remove bolt (this is how one is supposed to check fluid, by ensuring that it's up to the level of the check-bolt), got 3.5 quarts out, refilled with Dextron 6 and repeated 3 times. When it gets to 100K I'm gonna do a pan drop and filter change (and install a drain plug). WTF, this is a $3000 part that relies on fluid not just to function but to keep cool as well, if one developed a slow leak and didn't see signs of fluid leakage the tranny could be driven for thousands of miles (and it's life considerably shortened) without the owner knowing as the car has to be raised and level to get a correct reading. I guess you could go with 4 jackstands but that's a lot of trouble just to check a fluid!..

 

[Bartman39]

GM is not the only one that is doing or should say going to this... Also that trans design idea was to use the trans flush system which does a better job than just drain and refill... Something that few people do but can is to install a spin on filter assy in the cooling lines which will filter so much better than any filter in the pan would...

My Allison trans has an external spin on filter as do some other auto's and I change it every 25K miles and top off the trans...

 

[BUTCH1]

GM is not the only one that is doing or should say going to this... Also that trans is design idea was to use the trans flush system which does a better job than just drain and refill... Something that few people do but can is to install a spin on filter assy in the cooling lines which will filter so much better than any filter in the pan would...

My Allison trans has an external spin on filter as to some other auto's and I change it every 25K miles and top off the trans...

I heard Saturn also had a spin on design as well. I'll agree that flush is the better option but I would imagine to change the filter would probably be extra$. It's just dumb IMO to not to give the owner any means of simply checking the fluid, at the very least if a leak developed the fluid level could be maintained until a repair was done.

 

[LTC8K6]

Trans dipsticks began disappearing a long time ago.

 

[thescreensavers]

03-04 G's dont have a dipstick either, but they added it for 05,06 models.

 

[LTC8K6]

My 1997 Chevy had no dipstick for the trans.

 

[Blain]

When it gets to 100K I'm gonna do a pan drop and filter change (and install a drain plug).

Are you going to drain the torque converter as well?

 

[alkemyst]

Trans dipsticks began disappearing a long time ago.

In many cars engine dipsticks are disappearing too with ECU doing oil levels now via sensors.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Ford does it as well. The Lincoln LS never had a tranny dipstick; both the Gen 1s (00-02) and Gen 2s (03-06).

 

[BUTCH1]

Are you going to drain the torque converter as well?

That's a good idea -but-, his Honda has a drain plug (GM, no) and he has a dip stick to check fluid level afterward to ensure proper fluid level, since my car has to be checked for proper fluid amount with the bolt hole method I would have to jack up the entire car on stands to be able to have access to the bolt and ensure accurate fill (car MUST be level for this) so I would probably bring it to a shop for a flush. I've got at least 60 70% of the old fluid out already and when I drop the pan in another 37K it will get 7 more qts. of new so I think that should suffice. I will definitely be adding a drain plug to the pan once it's off so I can do routine partial changes at my leisure.

 

[crab]

No trans dipstick in my 2011 Toyota Sienna.

 

[LTC8K6]

In many cars engine dipsticks are disappearing too with ECU doing oil levels now via sensors.

Soon the hood will be locked with a dealer only key...

 

[satyajitmenon]

Anybody else read "tranny no dipstick" and think somethin else?

 

[thescreensavers]

Anybody else read "tranny no dipstick" and think somethin else?

No this is a garage thread, if it was in OT though....

 

[BUTCH1]

No trans dipstick in my 2011 Toyota Sienna.

Maybe auto makers are so sure their trans are never gonna leak they don't think anyone will ever need one but i just think it's BS IMO..

 

[Bartman39]

Soon the hood will be locked with a dealer only key...

Its called a Rolls Royce...:biggrin:

But Butch1 I agree its not a good thing and its one more way for them (the dealer) to try and make you come to them... Hope you dont have a transmission leak any time soon...:thumbsup:

 

[PhoKingGuy]

My 3 series doesn't even have an oil dipstick, lol.

 

[BUTCH1]

My 3 series doesn't even have an oil dipstick, lol.

So it uses an electronic system to monitor oil level right?. Guess I'm behind the times, seems auto makers feel drivers are too stupid/lazy to keep tabs the old fashioned (dipstick) way. They might have a point though, with today's cars needing less frequent service, less people are knowledgeable about how to take care of one. I remember in HS we had auto mechanic class as one of our choices (which I took) but back then ('70's) cars needed a lot more routine maintenance so it was of more importance to know how to work on one. Still, BMW (bring money with) should provide a dipstick as a backup if the electronic system fails, then your only option is a drain to see what's really in there..

 

[satyajitmenon]

Guess I'm behind the times, seems auto makers feel drivers are too stupid/lazy to keep tabs the old fashioned (dipstick) way.

I've heard it's got to do with EVAP emissions. Something about oil vapors not escaping from the dipstick.

 

[Vette73]

I've heard it's got to do with EVAP emissions. Something about oil vapors not escaping from the dipstick.

You can make sealed dipsticks. My Nissan truck the trans dipstick has a seal on the end of it and a bolt that locks it in.



But yea my old CTS was a PIA to chaneg the trans fluid.

With a dipstick you drian fluid, lowwer car, add new fluid, start car, and then check level and adjust as needed.

With NO dipstick (like my old CTS) you liuft car straight up and level, drain fluid, open fill hole, add fluid, start car, add more fluid under car and try not to burn self on exhust, add fluid till no more goes in, go through gears, open fill plug and check again, lowwer car then drive.

I was super happy to see that my Mercedes has a trans dipstick and drain plug on the trans pan. No dipstick just means people are even MORE likly to not check and ignore fluids and cause more long term problems that makers can blame owners for.

 

[BUTCH1]

You can make sealed dipsticks. My Nissan truck the trans dipstick has a seal on the end of it and a bolt that locks it in.



But yea my old CTS was a PIA to chaneg the trans fluid.

With a dipstick you drian fluid, lowwer car, add new fluid, start car, and then check level and adjust as needed.

With NO dipstick (like my old CTS) you liuft car straight up and level, drain fluid, open fill hole, add fluid, start car, add more fluid under car and try not to burn self on exhust, add fluid till no more goes in, go through gears, open fill plug and check again, lowwer car then drive.

I was super happy to see that my Mercedes has a trans dipstick and drain plug on the trans pan. No dipstick just means people are even MORE likly to not check and ignore fluids and cause more long term problems that makers can blame owners for.

Exactly, a $3000+ part that WILL be damaged/ruined by too low fluid and no means for the owner to check fluid. Putting a car on 4 stands is a lot of hassle just for a level check, few will do this and will just drive the car until it starts slipping, at that point one hopes they haven't fried their clutch packs..

 

[bruceb]

GM and others have done this, since most trannies will go 100-150K miles without any issues. A lot of car owners, do not keep a car more than 10 years. By then it is still under 150K for most drivers. At that point they suggest a fluid change and flush. If the vehicle is in heavy duty use, say Police Car, Taxi or a lot of city driving and towing, then I would change the fluid say every 50K miles. But for the most part, automatic transmissions, the lines and the trans oil cooler very rarely leak. I only had one leaky line and that was after some mechanic who swapped in my new radiator cross threaded it into the radiator. Took it to the shop that sold the radiator, they warrantied the part, installed the new one (for a lot less than the mechanic that did it wrong) all in about 3 hours. Been fine ever since. The original issue was a coolant leak from the plastic side tank of the radiator (thanks GM for more garbage plastic parts)

 

[alkemyst]

So it uses an electronic system to monitor oil level right?. Guess I'm behind the times, seems auto makers feel drivers are too stupid/lazy to keep tabs the old fashioned (dipstick) way. They might have a point though, with today's cars needing less frequent service, less people are knowledgeable about how to take care of one. I remember in HS we had auto mechanic class as one of our choices (which I took) but back then ('70's) cars needed a lot more routine maintenance so it was of more importance to know how to work on one. Still, BMW (bring money with) should provide a dipstick as a backup if the electronic system fails, then your only option is a drain to see what's really in there..

Most cars that do not have a dipstick can still get one installed...usually all that's needed is to remove a cap and slide the dipstick in.

It's a cost-saving process at the manufacturing level.

 

[BUTCH1]

Most cars that do not have a dipstick can still get one installed...usually all that's needed is to remove a cap and slide the dipstick in.

It's a cost-saving process at the manufacturing level.

Maybe for oil but there is no place on my tranny for a dip stick, a spot would have to be in the casting to be able to. I'm not sure if cost savings so much as auto makers don't trust consumers to check the oil themselves hence the electronic systems on some cars, that would negate the cost of not installing a dipstick. BMW (bring money with) apparently had some issues with their sensors and it required the owners to return to the dealer to drain the pan to actually see what was there!, I think they've got it working OK now though.

 

[BUTCH1]

GM and others have done this, since most trannies will go 100-150K miles without any issues. A lot of car owners, do not keep a car more than 10 years. By then it is still under 150K for most drivers. At that point they suggest a fluid change and flush. If the vehicle is in heavy duty use, say Police Car, Taxi or a lot of city driving and towing, then I would change the fluid say every 50K miles. But for the most part, automatic transmissions, the lines and the trans oil cooler very rarely leak. I only had one leaky line and that was after some mechanic who swapped in my new radiator cross threaded it into the radiator. Took it to the shop that sold the radiator, they warrantied the part, installed the new one (for a lot less than the mechanic that did it wrong) all in about 3 hours. Been fine ever since. The original issue was a coolant leak from the plastic side tank of the radiator (thanks GM for more garbage plastic parts)

Yeah, I wanted to do mine at 65K as here in FL your dealing with a lot of heat for most of the season, IMO 100K is pushing your luck but your right, most people have traded in the car by then anyway..