GM shutters Corporate Jets, will drive to DC: Ford will drive Escape Hybrid

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

People buy SUVs and hummers. I myself plan to buy a new midsize to replace my Honda Pilot soon, and now that the ridiculous gas price phobia is gone, I'm guessing more people will too. I don't know why they should cut out a profitable product.

Hummers are exactly what GM doesn't need. It's not a matter of profitability, it's the fact that Hummers are such a low-volume line of cars. It's just not worth keeping them around. GM needs high volume inexpensive cars that they can actually turn a profit on.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

People buy SUVs and hummers. I myself plan to buy a new midsize to replace my Honda Pilot soon, and now that the ridiculous gas price phobia is gone, I'm guessing more people will too. I don't know why they should cut out a profitable product.

GM has been dumping money into idle workers for years. This was from 3 years ago:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/au...0510/17/A01-351179.htm

WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.

The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.

As part of its restructuring under bankruptcy, Delphi is actively pressing the union to give up the program.

With Wall Street wondering how automakers can afford to pay thousands of workers to do nothing as their market share withers, the union is likely to hear a similar message from the Big Three when their contracts with the UAW expire in 2007 -- if not sooner.

"It's an albatross around their necks," said Steven Szakaly, an economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "It's a huge number of workers doing nothing. That has a very large effect on their future earnings outlook."

The jobs bank was established during 1984 labor contract talks between the UAW and the Big Three. The union, still reeling from the loss of 500,000 jobs during the recession of the late 1970s and early 1980s, was determined to protect those who were left. Detroit automakers were eager to win union support to boost productivity through increased automation and more production flexibility.

There have been considerable changes to the Jobs Bank program. I know using an old article makes it sound especially bad, but like the $75 an hour figure (which they've gotten down to around $60), it's grossly misused.

As for the SUVs, they'll continue being sold. The difference is they're now going more for midsize and compact SUVs and, more importantly, focusing a lot more on quality compact and midsize cars -- with emphasis on the quality part. I'd say look at the old Malibu versus the new one. The Chevy Cruze (next year, I think), versus the Cobalt. And Ford is similar with the Fusion compared to the old Taurus and the updated Focus compared to the older one. Let's face it, they were putting all their eggs in one basket with SUVs. The cars their putting out today are very competitive and put to shame the crap they had only a few years ago.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
And that's why they have to ditch the god damn Chevy Aveo. It's such an awful little piece of crap; no one wants it. GM should do what Ford did and bring over a little compact hatchback from Europe to sell in the U.S. Anything is better than a cruddy Korean tin can.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
And that's why they have to ditch the god damn Chevy Aveo. It's such an awful little piece of crap; no one wants it. GM should do what Ford did and bring over a little compact hatchback from Europe to sell in the U.S. Anything is better than a cruddy Korean tin can.

I looked at one of those. Outside of it's 9,000 price tag, there was nothing redeeming about it. First, it looks like the deformed and mentally impaired version of the VW Golf. Those stupid headlights are awful. It's noisy as hell on the road and when you slam the doors it feels like they might fall off. Crazy.

Also, for such a light piece of crap, you'd be amazed at how mediocre the fuel economy is.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
And that's why they have to ditch the god damn Chevy Aveo. It's such an awful little piece of crap; no one wants it. GM should do what Ford did and bring over a little compact hatchback from Europe to sell in the U.S. Anything is better than a cruddy Korean tin can.

GM is the one that brought over the hatchback. While it's a nice car, it does suffer from being an import though. The cost hurts it. Ford is going to start production of the Fiesta over here though.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

I believe I read one of them is pulling out of the Super Bowl. They are cutting advertising. I can't wait to read that Ford proposal posted here. I've posted here a couple of times that would like to disclose even more if the committee can keep it confidential. I heard GM's public proposal is 20 pages and if they can get some assurance of confidentiality they'll disclose a 100 page proposal.

 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,541
1,106
126
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

Its really not that simple when you have union workers and a contract with them. You cannot just go and shut down alot of plants. If any of the Big3 wanted to do massive layoffs and plant closures they would have to file Chapter 11 so they can get out of the union contracts.

They all need to layoff a LOT of people and turn off several plants, but under their current union contracts they cannot do that as wide spread as the need to. Instead all the Unions will allow is pay decreases starting in two years.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

Its really not that simple when you have union workers and a contract with them. You cannot just go and shut down alot of plants. If any of the Big3 wanted to do massive layoffs and plant closures they would have to file Chapter 11 so they can get out of the union contracts.

They all need to layoff a LOT of people and turn off several plants, but under their current union contracts they cannot do that as wide spread as the need to. Instead all the Unions will allow is pay decreases starting in two years.
I'd love to see something backing up these statements. The people of Janesville, Wisconsin, Oshawa Ontario, and Moraine, Ohio are flabbergasted at how easy it was. These are this years announcements by GM alone - thus far.

Someone should write a book about all the mis-information out there that's has been deemed to be the gospel.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

Its really not that simple when you have union workers and a contract with them. You cannot just go and shut down alot of plants. If any of the Big3 wanted to do massive layoffs and plant closures they would have to file Chapter 11 so they can get out of the union contracts.

They all need to layoff a LOT of people and turn off several plants, but under their current union contracts they cannot do that as wide spread as the need to. Instead all the Unions will allow is pay decreases starting in two years.
I'd love to see something backing up these statements. The people of Janesville, Wisconsin, Oshawa Ontario, and Moraine, Ohio are flabbergasted at how easy it was. These are this years announcements by GM alone - thus far.

Someone should write a book about all the mis-information out there that's has been deemed to be the gospel.

Sales/Employees
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Why not cut advertising by 50%? Thats huge money right there.

How do you plan to sell your cars without advertising?

Did I say eliminate? I said CUT. If sales are off by 30-40% anyway I don't see how more advertising helps. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to advertising.

What makes you think they are at that point?

Better to kill the labor union and move to automation.

Ok, August sales are down 20.7% for GM. Did they reduce all their other spending by 20.7%? I seriously doubt it.

Its time to get lean, meaning shut down plants for things like SUVs Hummers etc, cut all the management of those plants, reduce advertising. Yea it will hurt overall sales etc. but the strategy right now should be to survive and avoid bankruptcy.

Its really not that simple when you have union workers and a contract with them. You cannot just go and shut down alot of plants. If any of the Big3 wanted to do massive layoffs and plant closures they would have to file Chapter 11 so they can get out of the union contracts.

They all need to layoff a LOT of people and turn off several plants, but under their current union contracts they cannot do that as wide spread as the need to. Instead all the Unions will allow is pay decreases starting in two years.
I'd love to see something backing up these statements. The people of Janesville, Wisconsin, Oshawa Ontario, and Moraine, Ohio are flabbergasted at how easy it was. These are this years announcements by GM alone - thus far.

Someone should write a book about all the mis-information out there that's has been deemed to be the gospel.

Sales/Employees

I like how the top rung on the # of employees jumps by 150k while the rest jump by 50k. I've heard of skewing graphs, but christ.