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GM Planning Family of New RWD Performance Models

NFS4

NFS4

No Lifer
Edmunds-

Summary: General Motors will build a variety of cars for Pontiac, Chevy, even Buick on its new Zeta platform.

CHICAGO ? The 2008 successor to the Pontiac GTO will be joined by performance-oriented siblings at Chevrolet and luxury editions at Buick late in the decade, according to supplier sources who spoke with Inside Line here at the Chicago auto show.

The next-generation GTO will be built on a new General Motors architecture known internally as the Zeta platform. It is basically an evolution of the current chassis that underpins the 2005 GTO, which is assembled in Australia by GM's Holden subsidiary.

The new GTO, however, will be built in Michigan, Inside Line has learned. It will be joined by a new sporty coupe and companion convertible model at Chevrolet. The bow-tie division reportedly will not resurrect the Camaro name on the car, but is said to be considering using the Monte Carlo badge on this new midsize rear-drive model.

Unlike the GTO, which will continue to be powered by a high-output Corvette V8, the Chevy two-doors, which are due around 2009, reportedly will offer buyers a choice of V6 and V8 engines.

Pontiac also will get a new rear-drive sedan, which internally is being referred to as the G8. Offered with V6 and V8 engines, it will debut around 2009, and will take the place of the front-wheel-drive Bonneville, which is being phased out later this year. It may also supplant the front-drive Grand Prix.

The production version of Buick's stunning Velite convertible concept is also expected to share the Zeta chassis, but the car will focus more on luxury than performance. Although the Velite is expected to be built in Michigan at the same factory as the Pontiac and Chevy models, a rear-drive Buick luxury sedan is expected to be imported from Holden in Australia.

What this means to you: GM is gambling hundreds of millions of dollars that Americans will embrace a new generation of midsize rear-drive performance and luxury models later in this decade.
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Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Are they really gambling? They saw the success DCX had and they wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Will the RWD high performance sedan craze still be around in 2-3 years when they do debut? That is a gamble. For all we know, it'll be over, or GM's offerings will be the usual lackluster crap, they lose a lot of money. It IS a gamble.
 
Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Are they really gambling? They saw the success DCX had and they wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Will the RWD high performance sedan craze still be around in 2-3 years when they do debut? That is a gamble. For all we know, it'll be over, or GM's offerings will be the usual lackluster crap, they lose a lot of money. It IS a gamble.
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I don't think there is a gamble that RWD will be in demand. Though your second point is always a gamble with GM. 😛
 
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Are they really gambling? They saw the success DCX had and they wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Will the RWD high performance sedan craze still be around in 2-3 years when they do debut? That is a gamble. For all we know, it'll be over, or GM's offerings will be the usual lackluster crap, they lose a lot of money. It IS a gamble.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a gamble that RWD will be in demand. Though your second point is always a gamble with GM. 😛
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Is this Jeep boy I'm talking to, or Ornery? 😉
 
RWD will always be in demand. FWD is great for practical family cars - but anyone that has any sense of the industry can see that performance sells, and RWD platforms lend themselves to higher performance, and the ability to build/design componennts that can handle the buying public's increased Need For Speed. 😉

Chevy has finally firgured out they're getting their collective asses handed to them by Ford and Chrysler in the HP wars, and that killing off the Impala SS and F-Body line wasn't the smartest move.

**EDIT** Christ, my typing sucks..
 
A little late...but I'm not complaining. I just bought a truck (Toyota Taco), but in 5 or so years I'll probably be buying a new car and I will have plenty of money stored up on my GM Card. A pontiac GTO might be an option. I'm all for GM improving their stuff.
 
Finally somebody realizing that 90% of the country doesn't see snow and doesn't need FWD. For those of us in snowy conditions, we usually buy trucks and SUV's anyway.

<< wants a Dodge Charger HEMMAH!!
 
i wonder if they'll get back into the police dept's with a large V8 RWD Sedan

<- wants a 96 Chevy 9c1..
 
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Are they really gambling? They saw the success DCX had and they wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Not a gamble in my eyes. RWD is back and they're scrambling to bring it to their mainstream offerings. RWD isn't the sole reason DCX's cars are doing well for now, it's their unique designs and good interiors that highlight the inclusion of RWD. We'll see if Chevy can pull it off...
 
It's all about fit and finish.

When my Passat has real wood interior, and doors that line up perfectly, and the whole damn car is clearly immaculately assembled, a RWD may look nice, but if it is put together like crap, and cost who knows how much, the specs. mean a whole lot less than they might.

 
Originally posted by: kevman
i wonder if they'll get back into the police dept's with a large V8 RWD Sedan

<- wants a 96 Chevy 9c1..
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<---- Previously owned a 96 9c1, Oxnard, CA PD Code Enforcement Blue and White.
Coolest car I ever owned (and comfy too!). The stab plates in the seats were a conversation piece to say the least. I would give anything to bring it back from that accident that claimed it. Damn idiot who ran the red light!!! :|
 
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
It's all about fit and finish.

When my Passat has real wood interior, and doors that line up perfectly, and the whole damn car is clearly immaculately assembled, a RWD may look nice, but if it is put together like crap, and cost who knows how much, the specs. mean a whole lot less than they might.
Click to expand...

VW? The company that has nearly the worst reliability and most in-warranty repairs? Or Buick - In the top 5 for the last 5 years?

Your argument is about 10 years too old.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1400331,00.html
Quote: "Other surveys, including that of US-based J.D. Power and Associates, show comparable results. While BMW faired better, with only 264 problems per 1,000 vehicles -- above the 269 industry average, Audi and Mercedes-Benz, with 295 and 327 problems per 1,000 vehicles respectively, scored well below the average. Volkswagen, with 386 problems reported per 1,000 vehicles, was near the bottom of the list."

Chicago Tribune (Archived - must search)
Quote: "Ten of the 11 sedans with the lowest rating were European: the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, E-Class, C-Class (6-cylinder); Jaguar S-Type and X-Type; BMW 5- and 7-Series; Volkswagen Passat (all-wheel- drive); Volvo S60 (AWD) and Saab 9-3. The only non-European was the supercharged Pontiac Grand Prix."

American International Automobile Dealers - http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=27239
Quote: "YONKERS, N.Y., Nov. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey predicts continued troubles for European automakers with 2005 vehicles. Not only didn't European automakers have even one model among the top vehicles, but they dominated the list of vehicles with the worst predicted reliability ratings. "
"Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey


 
Originally posted by: NFS4
What this means to you: GM is gambling hundreds of millions of dollars that Americans will embrace a new generation of midsize rear-drive performance and luxury models later in this decade.
Click to expand...

BAH, this is the GM that invested $1.5 billion to revitalize Oldsmobile in the mid to late 90's, only to axe the brand in Dec 2000.
 
What about the move to shift Saturn up-scale that I read about in Motor Trend? That's a hard idea to grasp. They want it to replace Olds as the foreign fighter. Think that Saturn might be more likely to receive some of these luxury RWD models than Chevy or Pontiac?
 
Originally posted by: SuperSix
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
It's all about fit and finish.

When my Passat has real wood interior, and doors that line up perfectly, and the whole damn car is clearly immaculately assembled, a RWD may look nice, but if it is put together like crap, and cost who knows how much, the specs. mean a whole lot less than they might.
Click to expand...

VW? The company that has nearly the worst reliability and most in-warranty repairs? Or Buick - In the top 5 for the last 5 years?

Your argument is about 10 years too old.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1400331,00.html
Quote: "Other surveys, including that of US-based J.D. Power and Associates, show comparable results. While BMW faired better, with only 264 problems per 1,000 vehicles -- above the 269 industry average, Audi and Mercedes-Benz, with 295 and 327 problems per 1,000 vehicles respectively, scored well below the average. Volkswagen, with 386 problems reported per 1,000 vehicles, was near the bottom of the list."

Chicago Tribune (Archived - must search)
Quote: "Ten of the 11 sedans with the lowest rating were European: the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, E-Class, C-Class (6-cylinder); Jaguar S-Type and X-Type; BMW 5- and 7-Series; Volkswagen Passat (all-wheel- drive); Volvo S60 (AWD) and Saab 9-3. The only non-European was the supercharged Pontiac Grand Prix."

American International Automobile Dealers - http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=27239
Quote: "YONKERS, N.Y., Nov. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey predicts continued troubles for European automakers with 2005 vehicles. Not only didn't European automakers have even one model among the top vehicles, but they dominated the list of vehicles with the worst predicted reliability ratings. "
"Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey
Click to expand...

Didn't read your own article?
Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey.

I have the 6-cylinder FWD version of the Passat. I think you will find that particular model does quite well, thank you.

And I have been in recent GM offerings including Escalades and was not seriously impressed.

Looks like maybe I am more current than you.

 
Originally posted by: archcommus87
What about the move to shift Saturn up-scale that I read about in Motor Trend? That's a hard idea to grasp. They want it to replace Olds as the foreign fighter. Think that Saturn might be more likely to receive some of these luxury RWD models than Chevy or Pontiac?
Click to expand...

Saturn....Upscale?? BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It seems like Chevy would love for all of their 100 different sub-brands to "considered" more upscale but its not going to happen.
 
Originally posted by: Chadder007
Originally posted by: archcommus87
What about the move to shift Saturn up-scale that I read about in Motor Trend? That's a hard idea to grasp. They want it to replace Olds as the foreign fighter. Think that Saturn might be more likely to receive some of these luxury RWD models than Chevy or Pontiac?
Click to expand...

Saturn....Upscale?? BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It seems like Chevy would love for all of their 100 different sub-brands to "considered" more upscale but its not going to happen.
Click to expand...

What's so laughable? Any brand can be moved upscale if a company wants to, and no one said that Saturn is currently upscale. Check out Saturn's new Aura and Sky. Both look like really fine cars to try and reposition the brand.

 
Didn't read your own article?
Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey.

I have the 6-cylinder FWD version of the Passat. I think you will find that particular model does quite well, thank you.

And I have been in recent GM offerings including Escalades and was not seriously impressed.

Looks like maybe I am more current than you.
Click to expand...

ONLY? Gee that makes me feel better. Only THAT model was dead last, with many other VW models close in low rankings. Why was VW as a company (They make more than Passats) ranked 2nd to last in the amount of needed in-warranty repairs? (Lexus/Cadillac number 1 and 2 respectively)
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=854

Quote from the German magazine article:
"In it?s latest survey released in August, the UK-based consumer magazine Which? gave VW bad marks, putting it in the lowest ?poor? category, a position it has now held for two years. "

More current? That article is dated 11/18/04.

Even more grim news:
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2004/04/13/cz_jf_0413flint.html
"VW quality is at the bottom of everybody's list."
"Quality is also a problem. Last year VW had a huge callback for defective ignition coils, and its vehicles have lots of smaller problems. I personally know people who loved their New Beetles but gave them up because they couldn't stand those trips to the dealer. "

Quote from Al Gossett, chairman of the Volks-wagen National Dealer Council and owner of Gossett Motor Cars Inc. in Memphis, Tenn:
"What's the weak link in 2003?

There is the issue with aging product. And I think we've got some quality issues that are still not resolved in some of our products. That continues to be our Achilles' heel. The lack of quality in some of our stuff has definitely hurt us. "

Don't like the Escalade? Ok.. How about the Highest Ranked Full-Size Sport Utility Vehicle in Initial Quality? GUess what? Chevy Suburban!
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/winners.asp?StudyID=854

Could it be the horrible VW dealer attitude?
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=832

Could it be the 4th-to-last rating in the Vehicle Dependability Study?
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=749


I dunno..

I'm not saying that GM doesn't have a lot of room for improvement - Looks to me that most German manufacturers got caught with their pants down, much like the Big Three did when the Asian car sales exploded (Due to fuel economy concerns and much better build quality).
They sat back, resting on their laurels while GM and Ford increased their quality dramatically.


 
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