GM getting another $4 billion loan

[Q]

On CNN right now

 

[aleckz]

bah. I hope we see some kind of benefits or growth from this.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Quintox
GM getting another $4 billion loan

Not exactly.

This is part of the original loan, but is dependent on GM coming forth with a detailed plan for viability.

The biggest roadblock is getting the bondholders and the UAW to accept pennies on the dollar. As of right now they are still negotiating and will be through the night.


Text

 

[LOUISSSSS]

waste of US $$$s

 

[LTC8K6]

Just have a bonfire and burn the money...

Stop pretending...

 

[evident]

all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

 

[LTC8K6]

Actually it's to help the UAW...

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

considering they are two of GM's best vehicles, i'd say you're full of shit. here are some other excellent vehicles:

cobalt SS
cadillac CTS / CTS-V
chevy malibu
chevy silverado/GMC sierra
pontiac solstice / saturn sky



and besides, what does RWD and having a V8 have to do with anything? did you know the corvette can get better mileage than a 370z or G37? Did you know that the G8 GT can get just as good (highway) mileage as virtually any 6cyl sedan?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

considering they are two of GM's best vehicles, i'd say you're full of shit. here are some other excellent vehicles:

cobalt SS
cadillac CTS / CTS-V
chevy malibu
chevy silverado/GMC sierra
pontiac solstice / saturn sky



and besides, what does RWD and having a V8 have to do with anything? did you know the corvette can get better mileage than a 370z or G37? Did you know that the G8 GT can get just as good (highway) mileage as virtually any 6cyl sedan?

What are their respective MSRPs? More importantly, what are their sales figures?

 

[SickBeast]

I don't understand why GM has to go broke in order to get rid of Saab, Saturn, Izuzu, and Hummer. They need to get rid of their dead weight now and stop wasting taxpayer's money.

IMO it's not the end of the world if the Big 3 go under; there will be companies like Honda to take their place and build better cars.

I'll bet that many 'foreign' cars are actually more American-made than many domestics. I was just reading that the Chevy Equinox's engine is made in China.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

considering they are two of GM's best vehicles, i'd say you're full of shit. here are some other excellent vehicles:

cobalt SS
cadillac CTS / CTS-V
chevy malibu
chevy silverado/GMC sierra
pontiac solstice / saturn sky



and besides, what does RWD and having a V8 have to do with anything? did you know the corvette can get better mileage than a 370z or G37? Did you know that the G8 GT can get just as good (highway) mileage as virtually any 6cyl sedan?

excellent compared to... their competitors?
eh

cobalt ss or mazdaspeed 3, GTI? mazda or GTI for their refinement, drivability, and reliability of the mazda
cts/cts-v? 3 series, m3, 5 series, or m5? major lose
malibu or accord or camry? malibu loses to both

 

[LTC8K6]

cobalt ss or mazdaspeed 3, GTI? mazda or GTI for their refinement, drivability, and reliability of the mazda
cts/cts-v? 3 series, m3, 5 series, or m5? major lose
malibu or accord or camry? malibu loses to both

You gotta start a turnaround with something...those are good starts for GM.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I don't understand why GM has to go broke in order to get rid of Saab, Saturn, Izuzu, and Hummer. They need to get rid of their dead weight now and stop wasting taxpayer's money.
.

Though I'll miss Saturn, the company hasn't been the same in the past two years anyway. No plastic = no fun.

I'm gonna run my poor little Ion into the ground. It's a great car for what it does.

Maybe if they split off and go independent or become part of some other auto group, they can recapture some of their spirit from days of yore. Granted, they never made a profit that way but . . .

 

[eternalone]

I have a feelin they will go out of bussiness this year just watch.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

considering they are two of GM's best vehicles, i'd say you're full of shit. here are some other excellent vehicles:

cobalt SS
cadillac CTS / CTS-V
chevy malibu
chevy silverado/GMC sierra
pontiac solstice / saturn sky



and besides, what does RWD and having a V8 have to do with anything? did you know the corvette can get better mileage than a 370z or G37? Did you know that the G8 GT can get just as good (highway) mileage as virtually any 6cyl sedan?

excellent compared to... their competitors?
eh

cobalt ss or mazdaspeed 3, GTI? mazda or GTI for their refinement, drivability, and reliability of the mazda
cts/cts-v? 3 series, m3, 5 series, or m5? major lose
malibu or accord or camry? malibu loses to both

as far as i know, the 2.0L turbo has been rock solid for GM. and as far as driving goes, the cobalt SS will absolutely rip apart either the MS3 or GTI. i can't say anything for refinement and driveablility (i'm assuming you mean the suspension isn't a rock).

the CTS-V blows the door off the M3/M5 (due to size it's more an M5 competitor)

the malibu looks a helluva lot better than either camry or accord and has just as good fuel economy (as long as you get the 6spd auto)

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I don't understand why GM has to go broke in order to get rid of Saab, Saturn, Izuzu, and Hummer. They need to get rid of their dead weight now and stop wasting taxpayer's money.

IMO it's not the end of the world if the Big 3 go under; there will be companies like Honda to take their place and build better cars.

I'll bet that many 'foreign' cars are actually more American-made than many domestics. I was just reading that the Chevy Equinox's engine is made in China.

While the other three took up until now to get sold/closed down, I believe GM cut their ties with Isuzu a while ago. They bought out Isuzu's share of DMAX though, which is a good move. They produced such an awesome engine.

As far as foreign cars being more American, not really. NHTSA has a list that shows the percentage of US/Canadian (they lump those two together, I believe). Toyota and Honda would be the two biggest foreign automakers building in the US and their biggest sellers (Camry/Corolla and Accord/Civic) are around 65%. Toyota has a couple over 80% (no surprise of which ones though, but I'll let you guess which two ). A large amount of domestics still have plenty with high numbers. People keep giving them crap on things like this, but let's be clear, most domestics are still built here for the most part. Remember, GM has over 70 plants in the US, while Ford and Chrysler have around 30. Toyota has 12 (8 in the US, 4 in Canada) and Honda has around half of that. Nissan might have two (I know they have one in TN).

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

I love seeing things like this. Hey, answer me this: who has more rwd v8 cars, Ford or Toyota? They might even have more than GM if you discount the large number of rebadged vehicles in GM's line.

 

[Chunkee]

This stuff just keeps getting more and more disgusting. It sill will not help sell cars... if no one has a fucking job, or has lost all of their investment money, what the fuck makes them think they consumers will purchase a new car...oh thats right...we are having the presidents day sale... 1500 bux off right now on our POS vehicles...we cant stock enough of them... heres 10 cents for your trade...thanks and tell all your friends.

i suggest no one pay their taxes this year if you owe, as it seems you might as well just go to an ailing bank or car dealership and give it to them directly... that way you skip the middle man, our government.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
This stuff just keeps getting more and more disgusting. It sill will not help sell cars... if no one has a fucking job, or has lost all of their investment money, what the fuck makes them think they consumers will purchase a new car...oh thats right...we are having the presidents day sale... 1500 bux off right now on our POS vehicles...we cant stock enough of them... heres 10 cents for your trade...thanks and tell all your friends.

i suggest no one pay their taxes this year if you owe, as it seems you might as well just go to an ailing bank or car dealership and give it to them directly... that way you skip the middle man, our government.

This is a loan and not a grant to GM. They'll have to repay it back with interest so its lose lose for them. I don't have much faith in any of the American car manufacturers but you can tell that they're trying. They won't become profitable right away and certainly not easily in this market when most of the car manufacturers are suffering, domestic or otherwise.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: evident
all this tax money so you guys can circle jerk around your rwd v8 pontiac g8 and vette. whooooohooooo

considering they are two of GM's best vehicles, i'd say you're full of shit. here are some other excellent vehicles:

cobalt SS
cadillac CTS / CTS-V
chevy malibu
chevy silverado/GMC sierra
pontiac solstice / saturn sky



and besides, what does RWD and having a V8 have to do with anything? did you know the corvette can get better mileage than a 370z or G37? Did you know that the G8 GT can get just as good (highway) mileage as virtually any 6cyl sedan?

excellent compared to... their competitors?
eh

cobalt ss or mazdaspeed 3, GTI? mazda or GTI for their refinement, drivability, and reliability of the mazda
cts/cts-v? 3 series, m3, 5 series, or m5? major lose
malibu or accord or camry? malibu loses to both

That's a nice OPINION you have there, but the fact of the matter is the Cobalt tears apart all of it's competitors in terms of performance drivability and fuel economy, and it is no less reliable than a Mazdaspeed. My only gripes with it are it's exterior looks and interior cheapness. How the hell is the CTS-V a major lose when comparing it????? You seriously have a bad case of fanboism. As far as the Malibu goes, it is the only one of the group that doesn't look like total ass. I also prefer it's interior looks to it's competition. Other than that I think its a VERY good car.

 

[evident]

meh, maybe i'm just sick of my tax payer money being wasted. dont know about you guys.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Chunkee
This stuff just keeps getting more and more disgusting. It sill will not help sell cars... if no one has a fucking job, or has lost all of their investment money, what the fuck makes them think they consumers will purchase a new car...oh thats right...we are having the presidents day sale... 1500 bux off right now on our POS vehicles...we cant stock enough of them... heres 10 cents for your trade...thanks and tell all your friends.

i suggest no one pay their taxes this year if you owe, as it seems you might as well just go to an ailing bank or car dealership and give it to them directly... that way you skip the middle man, our government.

This is a loan and not a grant to GM. They'll have to repay it back with interest so its lose lose for them. I don't have much faith in any of the American car manufacturers but you can tell that they're trying. They won't become profitable right away and certainly not easily in this market when most of the car manufacturers are suffering, domestic or otherwise.

how in the heck are they going to pay it back if they are broke? grant, loan..blah blah blah...more money to greedy corporations that made poor decsisions that finally caught up with them...it is WIN WIN for them....lose lose for us.

jC

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
how in the heck are they going to pay it back if they are broke? grant, loan..blah blah blah...more money to greedy corporations that made poor decsisions that finally caught up with them...it is WIN WIN for them....lose lose for us.

jC

Are you saying that no American corporation will ever turn a profit?

I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at with the whole greedy corporation talk. Being a GM retiree I can't say I ever thought of them as being benevolent, but I can't say there is a special place in hell reserved just for them.

GM has made a ton of errors, the union shares an equal amount of blame. I have seen a great turn around in the company both from the inside and from their product. Whether they can convince people to buy their cars enough, especially in this economic crisis, so as to continue being a viable company is something only the bean counters that are going over their plan today can tell you.

I hope they can continue not only for myself, but also to prove that we here in American can still make stuff.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Chunkee
This stuff just keeps getting more and more disgusting. It sill will not help sell cars... if no one has a fucking job, or has lost all of their investment money, what the fuck makes them think they consumers will purchase a new car...oh thats right...we are having the presidents day sale... 1500 bux off right now on our POS vehicles...we cant stock enough of them... heres 10 cents for your trade...thanks and tell all your friends.

i suggest no one pay their taxes this year if you owe, as it seems you might as well just go to an ailing bank or car dealership and give it to them directly... that way you skip the middle man, our government.

This is a loan and not a grant to GM. They'll have to repay it back with interest so its lose lose for them. I don't have much faith in any of the American car manufacturers but you can tell that they're trying. They won't become profitable right away and certainly not easily in this market when most of the car manufacturers are suffering, domestic or otherwise.

how in the heck are they going to pay it back if they are broke? grant, loan..blah blah blah...more money to greedy corporations that made poor decisions that finally caught up with them...it is WIN WIN for them....lose lose for us.

jC

The taxpayers of the U.S. (that's you) are at the head of the line for payback. If the company goes under, their assets will be liquidated and the first debtor to be paid off will be you. When they accepted the money these terms went with it.

I have little faith in our government, but I have to concede that they're not always as dumb as we think they are.

 

[LTC8K6]

The taxpayers of the U.S. (that's you) are at the head of the line for payback. If the company goes under, their assets will be liquidated and the first debtor to be paid off will be you. When they accepted the money these terms went with it.

A. Where can we see this agreement? Since it involves me, I'd like to verify this.

B. Are they even worth the amount of money that has been given to them so far?
How much will we get back for each dollar given?

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

The taxpayers of the U.S. (that's you) are at the head of the line for payback. If the company goes under, their assets will be liquidated and the first debtor to be paid off will be you. When they accepted the money these terms went with it.

A. Where can we see this agreement? Since it involves me, I'd like to verify this.

Google>US government>Search>GM bailout agreement

http://www.treasury.gov/press/...erm%20&%20appendix.pdf

B. Are they even worth the amount of money that has been given to them so far?
How much will we get back for each dollar given?

What are we talking about? Market Capitalization? Asset liquidation?

See above link. You are to get all the money plus interest.