GM follows Ford in adapting Teslas NACS plug for all EVs

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RPD

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Jul 22, 2009
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How would paper money work, ex: without an attendant with a cash register? Suppose they could put a reader like on change machines to accept bills, but being outside, bugs etc would just end up getting in. Those things rarely work on a good day in a clean environment let alone outside in the elements. I'm just thinking there should be a way to pay cash, and that's the only way I can think of that could work is some kind of token system. It wouldn't exactly be the most convenient thing though. Like I said, credit/debit card swipe should be the primary option and eliminate the need for a smart phone being needed at all. It's just that paying with cash should always also be an option with any product/service imo.
You do realize there are these things in society called vending machines right? But that's besides the point, why do electric chargers need some different method to pay (COINS) than gas?
 

Red Squirrel

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May 24, 2003
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You do realize there are these things in society called vending machines right? But that's besides the point, why do electric chargers need some different method to pay (COINS) than gas?

Those take coins. But a chocolate bar or pop is also only a few dollars... so I do see the challenge of being able to use cash to pay to charge an EV. But with gas you just go inside and give cash. I suppose having some EV charging stations with an attendant could very well be an option, since it could essentially just be a convenience store just like a gas station.

Again I'm only saying there should be an option to pay with cash somehow, but credit/debit should be available. This would make it the same as paying for gas. The current way of requiring an app for every network is a huge mess. What I'm proposing is to actually make it the same as paying for gas, it's just that without an attendant the ability to use cash becomes a bit of a challenge.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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Those take coins.

Again I'm only saying there should be an option to pay with cash somehow, but credit/debit should be available. This would make it the same as paying for gas. The current way of requiring an app for every network is a huge mess. What I'm proposing is to actually make it the same as paying for gas, it's just that without an attendant the ability to use cash becomes a bit of a challenge.
GUESS WHAT ELSE THEY TAKE
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
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Dec 11, 1999
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Hopefully they've gotten better since 1995.


I haven't tried an outdoor vending machine lately. But I'd certainly like them to be good enough to let me pay cash for electrons.
 

Red Squirrel

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Never seen a vending machine that takes bills, but if it's anything like change machines, that's pretty much the experience I would expect it to be like. :p Maybe it would be better with the newer polymer money though.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Again I'm only saying there should be an option to pay with cash somehow, but credit/debit should be available. This would make it the same as paying for gas. The current way of requiring an app for every network is a huge mess. What I'm proposing is to actually make it the same as paying for gas, it's just that without an attendant the ability to use cash becomes a bit of a challenge.
Every public charger I've been to like Electrify America and EVgo accept credit/debit cards without any need to have their app installed. None of them accept cash at the moment most likely due to where they are located. Places like Wal-Mart parking lots, mall parking lots, and service plazas along interstate highways make it difficult for now. This will probably change in time as the infrastructure evolves.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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Good to know they're starting to do that. Lot of the videos I've watched on EV experiences the people always seem to have to fiddle around with installing an app just to use the dang thing and spend a good 15-30 minutes trying to get it to connect/register/start or do whatever it has to do to work. I'm sure they might be dramatizing it a bit but it's still a very likely scenario. If you are trying to do a cross country trip you're probably going to run into many different networks and need different apps, but if they are finally starting to also accept cards then that will eliminate that trouble.

For cash I imagine it would need to work like gas stations where you park at the charger then go inside to pay. So it would only work at certain stations that actually have a building associated to it. Could be convenience stores, hotels, restaurants etc.
 

bbhaag

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Jul 2, 2011
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Good to know they're starting to do that. Lot of the videos I've watched on EV experiences the people always seem to have to fiddle around with installing an app just to use the dang thing and spend a good 15-30 minutes trying to get it to connect/register/start or do whatever it has to do to work. I'm sure they might be dramatizing it a bit but it's still a very likely scenario. If you are trying to do a cross country trip you're probably going to run into many different networks and need different apps, but if they are finally starting to also accept cards then that will eliminate that trouble.

For cash I imagine it would need to work like gas stations where you park at the charger then go inside to pay. So it would only work at certain stations that actually have a building associated to it. Could be convenience stores, hotels, restaurants etc.
I just completed a 970 mile(1561 KM)round trip from Peoria IL to Cleveland OH and I didn't experience any of those things. Were there some charging stations issues? Of course but the tech is still in its infancy. Nothing crazy happened that would make me second guess taking my EV on road trip though.

Did I have to wait 15-30 minutes before I even got my Mach-E to start charging? No I did not but I'm not a youtuber or automotive journalist so I had no motivation to sensationalize my experience.
 
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deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
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I'm just saying it could be an option for convenience. Insert coin, relay turns on, it charges. Takes 2 seconds. Could also work for stations that are fully off the grid (ex: middle of highway running off a wind turbine or solar or something) and have no internet connectivity. Or if the credit card system goes down it would be a backup that works all the time. IMO credit card swipe should be the primary option and should be mandatory. Whatever else they want to do as another option I don't care about.

Maybe YOU don't care about privacy, but some people do. They need to stop trying to make our lives revolve around smartphones. Sometimes the "stone age" way is actually better. Technology just for the sake of technology is dumb.
Privacy is an illusion. Using coins instead of a phone payment to try to avoid the "gubmint" is a fallacy. The government already knows where you are from license plate readers, card purchases, satellites.

The thing is - they don't give two shits about you. You are a tiny tiny minnow in a massive sea. However the way you post ultra right wing bullshit and probably read ultra right wing websites, you probably are on some watchlist somewhere.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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Privacy is an illusion. Using coins instead of a phone payment to try to avoid the "gubmint" is a fallacy. The government already knows where you are from license plate readers, card purchases, satellites.

The thing is - they don't give two shits about you. You are a tiny tiny minnow in a massive sea. However the way you post ultra right wing bullshit and probably read ultra right wing websites, you probably are on some watchlist somewhere.

Yes I agree the 5 eyes stuff is bad, but why accept EVEN MORE tracking? Phone apps are the absolute worse, and so are stock OSes. It's extremely granular how much they know about you because of all the sensors phones have. Every time you download an app you're just flooding yet another company with all of your personal info 24/7. They exploit you for their own benefit and profit.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
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Dec 11, 1999
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Privacy is an illusion. Using coins instead of a phone payment to try to avoid the "gubmint" is a fallacy. The government already knows where you are from license plate readers, card purchases, satellites.

The thing is - they don't give two shits about you. You are a tiny tiny minnow in a massive sea. However the way you post ultra right wing bullshit and probably read ultra right wing websites, you probably are on some watchlist somewhere.

A connection to a DC fast charger requires your car to report its MAC address, so they know where you are that way too.
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
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Yes I agree the 5 eyes stuff is bad, but why accept EVEN MORE tracking? Phone apps are the absolute worse, and so are stock OSes. It's extremely granular how much they know about you because of all the sensors phones have. Every time you download an app you're just flooding yet another company with all of your personal info 24/7. They exploit you for their own benefit and profit.
You know you can manage what access apps have right?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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You know you can manage what access apps have right?
That still doesn't stop all the tracking especially OS level tracking, which is happening under the hood without you really knowing or having any control. Most apps also require you to give up pretty much all your privacy to use them. I rather just use a custom rom that's privacy oriented. They also vet all the apps better. Downside is lack of mainstream apps because that requires play/apple store but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Honestly I hope this whole app fad dies, most of the stuff they force apps for could be done with a dedicated physical interface on said device, or a web interface. They even have routers that require apps now, it's ridiculous.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,398
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Never seen a vending machine that takes bills, but if it's anything like change machines, that's pretty much the experience I would expect it to be like. :p Maybe it would be better with the newer polymer money though.

dude, you handled money with your bare hands? You should at least be wearing BSL-4 suits. It's too late, they already got your dna.

BTW, vending machines that take bank notes appeared in the 1960s...
McDonald's now has order terminals and cash machines in between 2 terminals. One takes notes and the other coins. Yes, it makes exact change.


I am not sure a charging station is capable of being off grid. How big a solar panel grid or wind turbine plus battery bank do you need to pull that off?
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,296
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Every public charger I've been to like Electrify America and EVgo accept credit/debit cards without any need to have their app installed. None of them accept cash at the moment most likely due to where they are located. Places like Wal-Mart parking lots, mall parking lots, and service plazas along interstate highways make it difficult for now. This will probably change in time as the infrastructure evolves.
I very much see the charging networks moving into the gas station model in the somewhat near future, where credit cards and cash will be the primary way to pay. Although I am sure a lot of chains will let you setup an account that will automatically identify your car and charge you correctly.

Needing apps to charge is stupid, IMHO, I don't want 10 different apps with 10 different accounts to keep track of. Also makes renting BEVs a huge PITA if you aren't already a BEV driver.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,296
9,721
136
Privacy is an illusion. Using coins instead of a phone payment to try to avoid the "gubmint" is a fallacy. The government already knows where you are from license plate readers, card purchases, satellites.

The thing is - they don't give two shits about you. You are a tiny tiny minnow in a massive sea. However the way you post ultra right wing bullshit and probably read ultra right wing websites, you probably are on some watchlist somewhere.
I care much more about facebook knowing everything about me than the government and you know all these apps are turning your data over to facebook and others.
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
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I care much more about facebook knowing everything about me than the government and you know all these apps are turning your data over to facebook and others.
Even if you don't have the apps, they are already doing it. FB has cookies on nearly every website you visit and have built a shadow profile for you even if you don't use it or have an account. Do I care if FB knows everywhere I've gone because of my car charging history? Not really. Credit cards already do and sell your data just as easily. If you want to live in a hole with tinfoil and only ever use cash that has been laundered several times then sure, stay off grid.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,296
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Even if you don't have the apps, they are already doing it. FB has cookies on nearly every website you visit and have built a shadow profile for you even if you don't use it or have an account. Do I care if FB knows everywhere I've gone because of my car charging history? Not really. Credit cards already do and sell your data just as easily. If you want to live in a hole with tinfoil and only ever use cash that has been laundered several times then sure, stay off grid.
Fine, I don't like the security risk of having an account with 500 different apps that likely mostly have very weak security, especially apps that contain a lot of personal data and my credit cards. Using an app is also more friction than scanning a credit card. There is no benefit to logging into my phone, signing into an app, holding it close to a charger, hoping it actually works, to get the charger to unlock, versus just swiping my credit card.

I also like to use a tire gauge as opposed to staring at an app on my phone telling me what my tire pressure is, as I've seen many people doing.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Even if you don't have the apps, they are already doing it. FB has cookies on nearly every website you visit and have built a shadow profile for you even if you don't use it or have an account. Do I care if FB knows everywhere I've gone because of my car charging history? Not really. Credit cards already do and sell your data just as easily. If you want to live in a hole with tinfoil and only ever use cash that has been laundered several times then sure, stay off grid.
You can actually limit some of the sharing your credit card company does. Can't really say the same for all those apps and whatnot.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I very much see the charging networks moving into the gas station model in the somewhat near future, where credit cards and cash will be the primary way to pay. Although I am sure a lot of chains will let you setup an account that will automatically identify your car and charge you correctly.

Needing apps to charge is stupid, IMHO, I don't want 10 different apps with 10 different accounts to keep track of. Also makes renting BEVs a huge PITA if you aren't already a BEV driver.
One of the things I really like about being part of Fords BlueOval Network is the ability to just plug an charge at any Electrify America station. It's super handy to just pull up plug in the car and away it goes. No need to worry about an app or a broken credit card reader and no need to worry about having cash on me.

I do understand that some people are concerned with their privacy and who is collecting their personal info but I'm not one of those people.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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One of the things I really like about being part of Fords BlueOval Network is the ability to just plug an charge at any Electrify America station. It's super handy to just pull up plug in the car and away it goes. No need to worry about an app or a broken credit card reader and no need to worry about having cash on me.

I do understand that some people are concerned with their privacy and who is collecting their personal info but I'm not one of those people.
Yeah, I get that being nice and that does provide lower friction then a credit card, but an app (at least to me) doesn't.

Buc-cee's are already adding Telsa chargers to their locations, just a matter of time before they are at most large interstate convince stores.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Yeah, I get that being nice and that does provide lower friction then a credit card, but an app (at least to me) doesn't.

Buc-cee's are already adding Telsa chargers to their locations, just a matter of time before they are at most large interstate convince stores.
I think you may have misunderstood my post. There is no app. I literally pull into any Electrify America station then plug in my car and then the car starts charging. That is it, no app, CC, or cash is needed. I just plug in and the car starts charging.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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I think you may have misunderstood my post. There is no app. I literally pull into any Electrify America station then plug in my car and then the car starts charging. That is it, no app, CC, or cash is needed. I just plug in and the car starts charging.
No, I got that. I was saying I understand why you like that. That system is much better than an app.
 
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