GM follows Ford in adapting Teslas NACS plug for all EVs

[bbhaag]

I previously posted about Ford adapting its EVs to use Teslas NACS plug and it appears that GM is following Fords lead. If this goes through it might mean the end for CCS.

GM announces it will also adopt Tesla's NACS connector

Following the news that Ford will adopt Tesla’s connector, now known as the North American Charging Standard (NACS), GM is...

electrek.co

 

[K1052]

I honestly don't care who's connector gets used I just want easy access to fast reliable charging.

 

[gorobei]

if this means all new cars wont need adapters, then cool. the tesla network is better maintained than any of the others.

do we have any idea what the terms are for gm and ford owners? does the customer pay as they go, or is there some sort of contract?

 

[kt]

I am good with any standard connector as long as one is adapted and I don't have to carry around multiple adapters for no good reason.

 

[quikah]

if this means all new cars wont need adapters, then cool. the tesla network is better maintained than any of the others.

do we have any idea what the terms are for gm and ford owners? does the customer pay as they go, or is there some sort of contract?

Everyones pays as they go except for some legacy Tesla owners (pre-2018 Tesla with lifetime supercharging). Tesla haven't offered any sort of contract charging plans. I doubt it would be profitable to do so.

The bigger issue is the location of the charge port on the car. The superchargers are very carefully laid out to maximize space based on the location of the port on the cars. The charge cables are VERY short as a result. The currently open superchargers are having issues fitting non-Tesla cars. The F-150 lightning is particularly difficult.

 

[Red Squirrel]

All car makers need to pick one standard and just stick with it. Also get rid of the requirement for apps, just make the chargers use a credit card. Credit cards are standard, stand alone, and don't require any apps or even a smart phone.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

This is huge. It's a big hurdle that I don't feel like is getting the attention it deserves. When I fuel up my ICE car, I don't have to monkey with adaptors, worry about the length of the tube, etc.

There is a standard, it's regulated by weights and measures, and it just works.

Electric vehicles 100% need the exact same setup.

 

[gorobei]

sadly we are now looking at a battle between eu on ccs and us on nacs. plus there is the ac vs dc signaling pins.

 

[bbhaag]

sadly we are now looking at a battle between eu on ccs and us on nacs. plus there is the ac vs dc signaling pins.

What battle between EU choosing CCS and what looks like the US going NACS? Do you plan on driving your EV to Europe?

Also as far as payment options for the Supercharger network the rumor mill over on the Mach-e forums is that it will most likely be handled through the FordPass app which makes sense. I have Plug & Charge setup on my Ford account and all I have to do is roll up to and EA charger and plug in. No fucking around with credit card terminals or having to mess around with a separate EA app. I don't even need my phone because the hand shake is handled by the Mach-E and the EA charger but honestly who doesn't carry their phone with them 99% of the time now a days?

But this is the EV market we are talking about so give it a day and things will most likely change. lol EV tech is evolving at such a rapid pace it reminds me of the early days of IBM compatible PCs. Like the early '80's through the '00's when it moved so fast that 3 months and your CPU and GPU were already outdated.

 

[Red Squirrel]

They really need to get rid of the need for smart phones. I much rather deal with a credit card than a finicky app, getting a signal, wifi authentication, etc. That's minutes wasted that the car could be charging. I run a custom rom on mine so these apps wouldn't even work for me, and I'm not about to change my phone just for that. It's sad that people just submit their privacy to Google/Apple these days and companies basically have people locked in.

I can't even afford an EV anyway so this is never a problem I will run into, but still hate to see how everything you buy now days seems to want you to have a phone.

 

[bbhaag]

@Red Squirrel I think you need to try it first before making a decision. Like I mentioned in my previous post the car and the charger manage the handshake so you don't even need your phone to start charging. You can just roll up, plug in, and then charging starts with no phone needed.

Like @GodisanAtheist said this is a HUGE deal that is getting little attention. The announcement from Ford and then GM both adapting to the NACS standard is a step in the right direction to there becoming one standard across all of NA.

 

[WelshBloke]

@Red Squirrel I think you need to try it first before making a decision. Like I mentioned in my previous post the car and the charger manage the handshake so you don't even need your phone to start charging. You can just roll up, plug in, and then charging starts with no phone needed.

If my son borrows my car am I paying for his fuel when he charges up?

 

[bbhaag]

If my son borrows my car am I paying for his fuel when he charges up?

If you own a Mach-E yes the card on file will be charged for the fill up but I don't know how other manufactures will handle this.

I have to ask though. Can't you just get the 70 pounds from your son when he gets back from his trip? If he doesn't pay you back isn't that part of being a parent? I have two children and my wife and I pay for things for them all the time and there is never the expectation that we will get paid back but maybe it's different in the UK were the cost of energy is higher.

Like I mentioned above this is similar to the early days of IMB compatible PCs. EV adaptation is still in its infancy compared to traditional ICE vehicles that have had over 100 years to come up with industry standards and government regulation. This is big news that hopefully works out for the best.

 

[WelshBloke]

If you own a Mach-E yes the card on file will be charged for the fill up but I don't know how other manufactures will handle this.

I have to ask though. Can't you just get the 70 pounds from your son when he gets back from his trip? If he doesn't pay you back isn't that part of being a parent? I have two children and my wife and I pay for things for them all the time and there is never the expectation that we will get paid back but maybe it's different in the UK were the cost of energy is higher.

Like I mentioned above this is similar to the early days of IMB compatible PCs. EV adaptation is still in its infancy compared to traditional ICE vehicles that have had over 100 years to come up with industry standards and government regulation. This is big news that hopefully works out for the best.

I think that I'd definitely rather be able to pay with alternative payments just like I would for anything else. I don't see the advantage of having on payment system tied to the car.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It still sounds finicky, as it's relying on a lot of things to work, such as having an account somewhere and other factors out of your control and I presume it still has an initial setup phase the first time you roll in to a particular network. You might run into several different networks throughout a trip so then you need to go through the setup process for each one. Making an account and all that. Or they might update or change things at some point that require you to action it in a way or another. It just feels like it's something that is meant to be easy but won't be because of various factors that could pop up over time.

Stick to credit cards and no need for any of that stuff, and it would also be simpler as there is no need for them to even handle money directly. All that is basically outsourced to the credit card processor. You make transaction, it gets approved, relay turns on, power comes out. With tap it's so easy anyway. Just tap the card and within a few seconds it would start charging.

An option that would be cool too is if they accepted coins like a car wash, this would give people the option to use cash to pay for the coins ahead of time and just leave the coins in the glove box. But at minimum credit card should be an option for every charger, if they want to do app stuff or tokens or whatever as an extra method fine but it shouldn't be the only method.

 

[bbhaag]

I think that I'd definitely rather bee able to pay with alternative payments just like I would for anything else. I don't see the advantage of having on payment system tied to the car.

I don't necessarily disagree and like I mentioned above handling payment on the Supercharger network for Fords is all speculative right now. Neither Ford or Tesla have made clear on how payment will be handled.

To be clear, in NA not all charging stations require an app, phone, or car to be tied to their specific chargers. I CHOSE to enroll in the Plug & Charge option for the Electrify America network.

Electrify America is the second largest charging network in NA behind Tesla and just like petrol stations on Electrify Americas network you can roll up, insert a card, and then plug in and start charging.

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't necessarily disagree and like I mentioned above handling payment on the Supercharger network for Fords is all speculative right now. Neither Ford or Tesla have made clear on how payment will be handled.

To be clear, in NA not all charging stations require an app, phone, or car to be tied to their specific chargers. I CHOSE to enroll in the Plug & Charge option for the Electrify America network.

Electrify America is the second largest charging network in NA behind Tesla and just like petrol stations on Electrify Americas network you can roll up, insert a card, and then plug in and start charging.

There's a push to "appification" for payments for lots of things (not just EV power, car parking is the most egregious example that I have come across. Having to download and set up an app just to pay for car park really pisses me off!) and while it sounds great in a single case you end up having to juggle a ton of apps for lots of things when credit cards are ubiquitous and an already proven technology.

 

[bbhaag]

I also want to mention that I am VERY new to EV ownership and I'm just trying to answer your guy's questions the best I can. I'm 43 years old and just bought my first EV in January of this year and only have 2,600 miles(4,184 km)worth of experience under my belt. If I make mistakes in answering some of your questions I apologize.

I just ask that you keep this in mind as I try to answer your questions and also tout the benefits of both Ford and GM deciding to move to NACS.

 

[WelshBloke]

I also want to mention that I am VERY new to EV ownership and I'm just trying to answer your guy's questions the best I can. I'm 43 years old and just bought my first EV in January of this year and only have 2,600 miles(4,184 km)worth of experience. If I make mistakes in answering some of your questions I apologize.

I just ask that you keep this in mind as I try to answer your questions and also tout the benefits of both Ford and GM deciding to move to NACS.

You're good, I'm just venting!

 

[deadlyapp]

It still sounds finicky, as it's relying on a lot of things to work, such as having an account somewhere and other factors out of your control and I presume it still has an initial setup phase the first time you roll in to a particular network. You might run into several different networks throughout a trip so then you need to go through the setup process for each one. Making an account and all that. Or they might update or change things at some point that require you to action it in a way or another. It just feels like it's something that is meant to be easy but won't be because of various factors that could pop up over time.

Stick to credit cards and no need for any of that stuff, and it would also be simpler as there is no need for them to even handle money directly. All that is basically outsourced to the credit card processor. You make transaction, it gets approved, relay turns on, power comes out. With tap it's so easy anyway. Just tap the card and within a few seconds it would start charging.

An option that would be cool too is if they accepted coins like a car wash, this would give people the option to use cash to pay for the coins ahead of time and just leave the coins in the glove box. But at minimum credit card should be an option for every charger, if they want to do app stuff or tokens or whatever as an extra method fine but it shouldn't be the only method.

What in the buttfuck would you ever want to carry coins for this? Even in ass backward canada and your loonies and toonies or whatever the fuck they're called, would you really want to carry around ten pounds of coins rattling around in your glovebox?

At the end of the day, the reason for handling payments separately is so that the merchant can probably bundle multiple transactions together with the processor, or entice people to load an account with funds to reduce the number of transactions and therefore transaction fees. I'm all about it.

You're trying to live in the stone ages because you're worried about privacy, when at the end of the day nobody gives a shit about you - there's no government conspiracy out there trying to ruin your life.

 

[Red Squirrel]

What in the buttfuck would you ever want to carry coins for this? Even in ass backward canada and your loonies and toonies or whatever the fuck they're called, would you really want to carry around ten pounds of coins rattling around in your glovebox?

At the end of the day, the reason for handling payments separately is so that the merchant can probably bundle multiple transactions together with the processor, or entice people to load an account with funds to reduce the number of transactions and therefore transaction fees. I'm all about it.

You're trying to live in the stone ages because you're worried about privacy, when at the end of the day nobody gives a shit about you - there's no government conspiracy out there trying to ruin your life.

I'm just saying it could be an option for convenience. Insert coin, relay turns on, it charges. Takes 2 seconds. Could also work for stations that are fully off the grid (ex: middle of highway running off a wind turbine or solar or something) and have no internet connectivity. Or if the credit card system goes down it would be a backup that works all the time. IMO credit card swipe should be the primary option and should be mandatory. Whatever else they want to do as another option I don't care about.

Maybe YOU don't care about privacy, but some people do. They need to stop trying to make our lives revolve around smartphones. Sometimes the "stone age" way is actually better. Technology just for the sake of technology is dumb.

 

[gorobei]

What battle between EU choosing CCS and what looks like the US going NACS? Do you plan on driving your EV to Europe?

Also as far as payment options for the Supercharger network the rumor mill over on the Mach-e forums is that it will most likely be handled through the FordPass app which makes sense. I have Plug & Charge setup on my Ford account and all I have to do is roll up to and EA charger and plug in. No fucking around with credit card terminals or having to mess around with a separate EA app. I don't even need my phone because the hand shake is handled by the Mach-E and the EA charger but honestly who doesn't carry their phone with them 99% of the time now a days?

But this is the EV market we are talking about so give it a day and things will most likely change. lol EV tech is evolving at such a rapid pace it reminds me of the early days of IBM compatible PCs. Like the early '80's through the '00's when it moved so fast that 3 months and your CPU and GPU were already outdated.

electrify america and electrify canada are subsidiaries of VW as part of the dieselgate smogcheck scandal. with the way they run the charge network or how half-assedly they do so, it doesnt seem like it is a priority for them. there is no guarantee that they even care enough about the us market going electric that they would play nice by switching over their cars and electrifyAmerica over to nacs.

this may change as the number of BEV vs ICE + HEV reaches the crossover point.

but i agree with others on a national standard for plugs, we dont have multiple standards for gasoline nozzles so there is no reason for ev to be different.

 

[Ken g6]

Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis have joined the NACS bandwagon.

Confirmed: Hyundai Motor Group is latest automaker adopting NACS

Mere days after seeing Hyundai, Genesis and Kia EVs charging at Tesla Superchargers, all three of the brands under the...

electrek.co

Which leaves, I think, VW as the odd man out, among BEV makers that sell significant volume in North America.

 

[RPD]

I'm just saying it could be an option for convenience. Insert coin, relay turns on, it charges. Takes 2 seconds. Could also work for stations that are fully off the grid (ex: middle of highway running off a wind turbine or solar or something) and have no internet connectivity. Or if the credit card system goes down it would be a backup that works all the time. IMO credit card swipe should be the primary option and should be mandatory. Whatever else they want to do as another option I don't care about.

Maybe YOU don't care about privacy, but some people do. They need to stop trying to make our lives revolve around smartphones. Sometimes the "stone age" way is actually better. Technology just for the sake of technology is dumb.

You'd make a better case if you said paper money, but coins? How many miles are you going to get for $2.38, $1.49?

 

[Red Squirrel]

You'd make a better case if you said paper money, but coins? How many miles are you going to get for $2.38, $1.49?

How would paper money work, ex: without an attendant with a cash register? Suppose they could put a reader like on change machines to accept bills, but being outside, bugs etc would just end up getting in. Those things rarely work on a good day in a clean environment let alone outside in the elements. I'm just thinking there should be a way to pay cash, and that's the only way I can think of that could work is some kind of token system. It wouldn't exactly be the most convenient thing though. Like I said, credit/debit card swipe should be the primary option and eliminate the need for a smart phone being needed at all. It's just that paying with cash should always also be an option with any product/service imo.