GM Continues the Journey to Hydrogen
- Thread starter jlmadyson
- Start date
Ford Launched 10 Hydrogen Buses in Orlando not too long ago. And Chrysler is planning a fuel cell Grand Cherokee. Looks like all the major players are getting on board.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
Once they make it work, then every filling station will be able to add a conversion unit to its free water hose.
Water, water. Just need a way to break it down.
Which is owned and controlled by the Oil Thugs and the Politicans they own as well (our Government)
so it ain't gonna happen, period.
There is enough money and infrastructure in the gas business to convert when the time is needed.
The big question is, what will the cost be? Will they keep it competitive with gas, less expensive, more, etc... Hard to figure out what angle they may play with this one. Whatever the case, I am hardly an environmentalist, but I think the move it an intelligent one. The only way we will ever win in the Middle East is to totally rid out need for them and let them wither and die on their own.
The big question is, what will the cost be? Will they keep it competitive with gas, less expensive, more, etc... Hard to figure out what angle they may play with this one. Whatever the case, I am hardly an environmentalist, but I think the move it an intelligent one. The only way we will ever win in the Middle East is to totally rid out need for them and let them wither and die on their own.
such optimism!
If the gas stations dont, then Walmart will! If theres money to be made, someone will fill the need.
GM continues journey to another worthless fuel... "Hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe..." HAHAHA TOO BAD ITS LOCKED IN OTHER COMPOUNDS AND STUCK IN SPACE...
Hydrogen is dang near worthless folks, its tit for tat.
Edit: I guess I should say that it would reduce vehicle emissions, one of the largest causes of air related health problems and air pollution itself. However, it will require more use of coal fired and NG fired power plants. Coal plants that are new are pretty nice though, fluidized bed coal plants with modern pollution control equipment works quite well. On the "energy" issue though it is one thing in exchange for another, not gaining much if any.
Hydrogen is dang near worthless folks, its tit for tat.
Edit: I guess I should say that it would reduce vehicle emissions, one of the largest causes of air related health problems and air pollution itself. However, it will require more use of coal fired and NG fired power plants. Coal plants that are new are pretty nice though, fluidized bed coal plants with modern pollution control equipment works quite well. On the "energy" issue though it is one thing in exchange for another, not gaining much if any.
Actually, Electrolysis is another cheap and clean alternative. The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a hydrogen generator could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline. Putting money into this method will take time. As far as energy goes, yes you are trading one for another, but if we have the resources to mass produce this stuff rather than sucking on the OPEC energy "teet" than that makes much better sense economically to the US.
Just watched a show on this yesterday. it is likely that early generation hydrogen cars will still use gasoline as it is naturally one of the most abundant sources of hydrogen. The big difference is that the gas will not burn, it will just be stripped of its hydrogen - plus this method has been by far the most efficient. So, it looks as if reliance on gas is not going to just vanish.
Seems as if the real gaol should be the old middle age alchemy problem of turning lead into gold. Who will be the first to turn water into vehicle power.
Ah hell, what will that solve... Bottled water is more expensive per volume than gasoline.
Seems as if the real gaol should be the old middle age alchemy problem of turning lead into gold. Who will be the first to turn water into vehicle power.
Ah hell, what will that solve... Bottled water is more expensive per volume than gasoline.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
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that's where solar power comes in. 160,000 terawatts per day when we only use 2. http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ght_key=y&keyword1=oil
seems like canada got there first. germany and japan are close behind.
Rhin0 has it. H2 is the biggest red herring in decades. A better alternative would be scrapping cars and putting back a nice mass transit system.
Electrolysis works, but only for fresh water, because if you do it on salt water, you get tons of noxious chemicals that aren't exactly conducive to human life. Desalinating salt water takes copious amounts of water.
Natural gas is currently the best way to make hydrogen.
CH4 + H2O + (lots) Pressure + (lots) Heat --> 2H2 + CO
H2 is not an energy source. You take more energy to make H2 than you will ever get. This is a fundemental law of chemistry and physics. Other than fusion, H2 can never be an energy source.
Electrolysis works, but only for fresh water, because if you do it on salt water, you get tons of noxious chemicals that aren't exactly conducive to human life. Desalinating salt water takes copious amounts of water.
Natural gas is currently the best way to make hydrogen.
CH4 + H2O + (lots) Pressure + (lots) Heat --> 2H2 + CO
H2 is not an energy source. You take more energy to make H2 than you will ever get. This is a fundemental law of chemistry and physics. Other than fusion, H2 can never be an energy source.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
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People better be prepared to pick up the bill on their license plates, property taxes, and drivers licenses when they cut gasoline sales. The gasoline taxes support many a states' general fund let alone highway funds. And the feds themselves greatly depend on gasoline tax.
Oh it could very much be a good alternative. The fact that it will take time to invest in such things as electrolysis and nuclear alternatives around the US is a non issue, it will happen in due time. The fact that the by-product of this method is unused electricity makes it all the more worthwhile. The cost of this alterantive is so-so now, but as more plants are built to support these technologies and more pumping stations are setup for the consumer the more alternatives we have to move away from OPEC and their price gouging (as they are now, lobbying against these alternatives).The cost of oil transport is big dollars in itself. The simple fact that they are lobbying against these alternatives says a great deal.
I know these are supposedly different construction and more efficient but do you know what kind of industrial processes go into making cells? Even these new plastics one involve some nasty methods. They are expensive to make, take up tons of room, eyesore. I'm not saying they don't work because they do. You just have to look at the big picture and see what is going to exchange for what and if the waste made by producing the panels will be worse than our current deal.
There are plenty of alternatives out there, the biggest problem is supply and demand. As much as we all here the oil is running out, we're all going to die message, it's not having it's affect to the point where real change will happen. If oil runs out, you'll see a conversion pretty quickly. The only thing holding back alternative power sources it money (which is tied up in oil). Whatever happened to acid rain dissolving us while we wait at the bus stop? Not that conservation and protecting the environment are not important issues; they're paramount to life. But this whole greenhouse gas, expanding oceans thing is overdone. This is why most people are apathetic to the issue in the first place. If we had more realism and less fear-mongering things would be a lot better. BTW if the byproduct of the hydrogen cell is H20 and CO2, what happens when I wake up and it's -35? 
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