Glycol and destilled water?

[grandpatzer]

I went to a car store and got destilled water, or rather water that has been destilled but only calcium taken away and replaced with natrium.

I also got Glycol which according the bottle is anti corrosive and has inhibitors in it:

Name: Red Longlife

Ingredients: 1, 2-etandiol, inhibitors.

MOD EDIT: Moved to more appropriate forum. - Zap

 

[Idontcare]

Yes, sounds about right to me.

 

[thilanliyan]

Was there a question somewhere?

 

[grandpatzer]

Was there a question somewhere?

My question is if this is dangerous/bad?

I know there are som additives to buy in watercooling shops instead of pure glycol.

But I don't want wait 2 weeks from watercooling shop

 

[Kenmitch]

My question is if this is dangerous/bad?

I know there are som additives to buy in watercooling shops instead of pure glycol.

But I don't want wait 2 weeks from watercooling shop

I just use distilled water and a silver coil. No need for additives at all. From what I've read it's the safest way for just in case there is a leak as distilled water is non-conductive.

By the way this most likely should be in cases and cooling

 

[Soulkeeper]

Unless you have a mixed water cooling setup. ie: copper and aluminum
and plan on running it for a long time.
Then there is no need for antifreeze/glycol in a loop.
In fact plain water will cool better.

A few ounces of "water wetter" in distilled water is what they use in dragsters, and what i'd suggest.

 

[Xpage]

I used distilled water from the store plus water wetter from a autoshop, a few drops is all that you need. I try to keep as much of the system having the same material (Copper, gold, what have you) as possible to reduce the potential difference between the metals (which leads to corrosion).

I even had a leak, PC turned off after getting sprayed with water, i let it dry, then 2 days later it booted up fine. Just be sure to clamp every connection.


I went overboard on the water wetter the first time, it tended to settle out in my reservoir, plus it kinda smells a bit, so it gets old quick. I would say 2-3 capfulls of WW is good enough, or if you feel like measuring out, it'd be one tablespoon (that's the big spoon)

 

[grandpatzer]

I used distilled water from the store plus water wetter from a autoshop, a few drops is all that you need. I try to keep as much of the system having the same material (Copper, gold, what have you) as possible to reduce the potential difference between the metals (which leads to corrosion).

I even had a leak, PC turned off after getting sprayed with water, i let it dry, then 2 days later it booted up fine. Just be sure to clamp every connection.


I went overboard on the water wetter the first time, it tended to settle out in my reservoir, plus it kinda smells a bit, so it gets old quick. I would say 2-3 capfulls of WW is good enough, or if you feel like measuring out, it'd be one tablespoon (that's the big spoon)

Many thanks for the clear post!

I'm now going to run 100% destilled for 24-48h, if no leak I will add 1 tablespoon pure glycol.

I think water wetter is 50% water 50% glycol?

 

[Soulkeeper]

Many thanks for the clear post!

I'm now going to run 100% destilled for 24-48h, if no leak I will add 1 tablespoon pure glycol.

I think water wetter is 50% water 50% glycol?

water wetter is not glycol-based, if i'm not mistaken
search for "redline water wetter"
they work by reducing the surface tension of the water, thus increasing heat transfer abilities

Typical antifreeze 50/50 water/glycol, or anything else added to water only decreases the cooling efficiency of pure water. Water wetter products are one of the few exceptions to this rule.
The main advantage of water/glycol mixtures (besides not freezing easily) is the anti-corrosion capabilities (while not massively decreasing the cooling efficiency), this is why it is the standard in automotive.

 

[Meghan54]

water wetter is not glycol-based, if i'm not mistaken
search for "redline water wetter"
they work by reducing the surface tension of the water, thus increasing heat transfer abilities

Typical antifreeze 50/50 water/glycol, or anything else added to water only decreases the cooling efficiency of pure water. Water wetter products are one of the few exceptions to this rule.
The main advantage of water/glycol mixtures (besides not freezing easily) is the anti-corrosion capabilities (while not massively decreasing the cooling efficiency), this is why it is the standard in automotive.

In the computer watercooling arena, "water wetter" has been shown through testing to inhibit cooling efficiency. Ask Aigo.....


The reason "water wetter" works in cars is that it apparently keeps the water from vaporizing temporarily in the cylinder head area, at least according to Red Line's advertising. But in computers and watercooling, which produces temps only a fraction of what car cylinder head temps achieve, the water wetter is just a waste and cooling performance inhibitor.

 

[Soulkeeper]

In the computer watercooling arena, "water wetter" has been shown through testing to inhibit cooling efficiency. Ask Aigo.....


The reason "water wetter" works in cars is that it apparently keeps the water from vaporizing temporarily in the cylinder head area, at least according to Red Line's advertising. But in computers and watercooling, which produces temps only a fraction of what car cylinder head temps achieve, the water wetter is just a waste and cooling performance inhibitor.

I've seen that debate, didn't they ultimately settle on a few drops of bleach added to the system ?
I still prefer water wetter to antifreeze any day
also didn't they come to the conclusion that the galvanic corrosion was negligible ?

If you have a better additive feel free to share.

 

[Kenmitch]

If you have a better additive feel free to share.

I just use a silver coil which seems to work fine for me. Not like I'm gonna taste the water but it still looks clear to me.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I just use a silver coil which seems to work fine for me. Not like I'm gonna taste the water but it still looks clear to me.

Interesting, must be a newly popular thing
I havn't run a water cooled rig in years myself

 

[MadScientist]

A few facts.

From Corsair's website:
The liquid inside our Hydro Series CPU coolers is a mixture of distilled water with Propylene Glycol added to prevent corrosion and organic build-up.
PG is much less toxic than EG.

To the OP:
Distilled water is water that has most of its impurities removed through distillation. In your first post you may have been referring to soft water from a water softener in which there is an ion exchange between the calcium and sodium ions. Some of the sodium (Na from Latin: natrium), ~12.5 milligrams per 8 ounces of water, remains in the water.

Ionic silver, Ag+, has excellent antimicrobial properties. The plastic housing of the demineralization cartridge in my Air-O-Swiss Humidifier is treated with ionic silver.

From Red Line's MSDS: Composition of their Water Wetter
DiIsopropyl Alcohol Ether 1-40%
Tri Isopropyl Alcohol DiEther 1-40%
Sodium Molybdate 2-10%
Tolyltriazole 1-3%
PolySiloxane Polymer

 

[Zor Prime]

Silver kills bacteria / viruses. Some people actually drink what is called liquid silver, or colloidal silver (I have in some cases of severe illness). Of course, you can't see it, you're only drinking trace amounts.

A silver coil sounds like a pretty awesome idea to keep down on "bad stuff" floating around in there ... the CPU might catch a virus otherwise.

 

[ctk1981]

And just note, another reason for 50/50 mix in the automotive world is the fact that it raises the boiling point of water also.

Im not even sure if they sell EG based antifreeze anymore, there was a big push for the non toxic stuff and thats about all I see anymore on the shelves.....non toxic which is PG. Had to be careful with EG, animals ie dogs cats, apparently like the sweet taste of EG based antifreeze and lap it up.....and then die.

 

[Xpage]

FYI- Such a tiny amount of any substance in a large volume of water will I think negligibly effect the properties of cooling. Effects will likely start to occur in significant volume to volume ratios (5% or more). A 0.001% solution won't effect cooling much if at all, however a small amount of chelating agent to scoop up ions of metals to prevent corosion will be noticed, though there are normally few ions present anyway of metals in water.

I only replaced my coolant in my last rig twice, once due to the aformentioned leak and the other because I was tired of the settled residue. Though I did have distilled water refills, as some water does pass through plastic naturally and you do lose some volume of water.


So far been 1 year of my new setup and everything is fine. May need to add 50ml of water soon. I really should geta free hosting site somewhere and post my watrecooling adventures for my last 2 rigs, lots of customization and metal cutting/bending/drilling.

 

[Grooveriding]

I just went with distilled and a silver coil as well.

Silver is one of the best anti-bacterial/microbal agents. If ever you get a truly nasty infection that is not internal, but below/on skin level, after draining it they'll use silver wadding in the wound for several weeks to soak up/stave off further infection.

 

[Meghan54]

A few facts.

From Corsair's website:
The liquid inside our Hydro Series CPU coolers is a mixture of distilled water with Propylene Glycol added to prevent corrosion and organic build-up.
PG is much less toxic than EG.

Quite true, but Corsair HAS to use some sort of corrosion preventative because Corsair's watercooling setups use the dreaded mixed metal setup....copper plate for the cpu and aluminum radiators.....which would set up galvanic corrosion if not for the use of glycol in their coolant.

In a non-mixed metal setup (only copper, brass in the loop), corrosion prevention becomes moot and the only thing to be concerned about is preventing algae growth, which the silver coil accomplishes.

And nothing.....NOTHING......cools as well as pure water. Put anything else into the water as an additive and you decrease the cooling potential of the water. Testing, ad nauseam, has been done and reported on XS's forum.

 

[MadScientist]

Quite true, but Corsair HAS to use some sort of corrosion preventative because Corsair's watercooling setups use the dreaded mixed metal setup....copper plate for the cpu and aluminum radiators.....which would set up galvanic corrosion if not for the use of glycol in their coolant.

In a non-mixed metal setup (only copper, brass in the loop), corrosion prevention becomes moot and the only thing to be concerned about is preventing algae growth, which the silver coil accomplishes.

And nothing.....NOTHING......cools as well as pure water. Put anything else into the water as an additive and you decrease the cooling potential of the water. Testing, ad nauseam, has been done and reported on XS's forum.

I agree. They probably use a PG antifreeze that has a corrosion inhibitor in it. I can not find a MSDS on the coolant they use. If you email them and request a MSDS, by law, they are required to provide one. Some of the chemicals though may be proprietary or trade secrets and not listed in the MSDS.

Here's an interesting article from Overclockers. It's an old article but the chemistry does not change. The author also fails to mention the use of ionic silver as a biocide.
Part 1
http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-i/
Part 2
http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/

And a thermal performance review of different coolants from SkinneeLabs:
http://skinneelabs.com/coolantfluid-roundup-thermal-performance/

 

[billyb0b]

just stick with distilled water and a kill coil

 

[Nemesis 1]

I use distilled water only. As our cpu blocks are silver base .

 

[Nemesis 1]

I just recieved my AquaComputer21558 silver based water block. I little on the bling side but its art. When I show you guys my personnal new internet browser thats water cooled as the SB setup browser is to dang load. Its a nice piece. and its $100 dollars cheaper than what I have been using . Having a new based made 1 at a time is expensive. So this @ $300 is a steal. I never show my work on the internet but . This is going to be the exception . I hope our resident guru allows me to keep that post up when it comes as I am pissed about the marketing in watercooling and the myths and out and out lies . So I am going to attack these people who just plain lie about watercooling setup . This is nothing like whats ever been done . The style is orginal A 1st . I call it the dual Vortex.

Ha D-Tek I will never forget you stole thaat name from me and likely some other things . The Vortex name for my water block you stole it . I can say that in this forum as the proof is in these post . All we have to do is go back to the fusion release and the truth is right their . I want to destroy you and behind the scenes I been successful so far. I don't mind helping companies 1 bit as long as it fits my agenda.

 

[Nemesis 1]

water wetter is not glycol-based, if i'm not mistaken
search for "redline water wetter"
they work by reducing the surface tension of the water, thus increasing heat transfer abilities

Typical antifreeze 50/50 water/glycol, or anything else added to water only decreases the cooling efficiency of pure water. Water wetter products are one of the few exceptions to this rule.
The main advantage of water/glycol mixtures (besides not freezing easily) is the anti-corrosion capabilities (while not massively decreasing the cooling efficiency), this is why it is the standard in automotive.

So tell me something . and the op can prove this out Water wetter does nothing . If water wetter performes as your post states there should be a temp drop. There isn't . OP can prove that out to you guys . Just as I did with my racing friends . They were using water wetter and I lol at them which lead to a hell of an arguement one night. The next week I show up with all water drained just to show these guys how they been had . So we on load . Than I start dumping distilled water in the guys come over and say what the hell ya doing so I told them what was going on . After I get the water in than I remove the fan blade. Than they start laughing . We get ready to run the heats . In the line up I reach over and bump my fuel pill selector up 2 sizes. I won that race and the car came in at 210F . Perfevt for our kind of racing . The guys come over and check temp befor I out of car . They walk away scrathing heads. Wetter if useful at all is a lube but I doubt it any better than distilled water .

 

[aigomorla]

Unless you have a mixed water cooling setup. ie: copper and aluminum
and plan on running it for a long time.
Then there is no need for antifreeze/glycol in a loop.
In fact plain water will cool better.

This is correct..

the reason why corsair uses antifreeze is because they have mixed metals.

anything u add to water will lower the thermal properties of it, but making it more viscous.

Glycol in high concentrations... about 1:3 can also be an inhibitor, but you will pay for it in the performance end.


Water wetter is NASTY stuff, i dont recommend it.
Your better off fixing your loop so it doesnt require it.

It will coat your stuff like no tomorrow like water wetter should. Leave it in cars, as the operation temp inside cars is much higher then a PC.