Global Warming caused the fall of the Roman Empire?

[Schadenfroh]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/22/133143758/could-climate-change-have-led-to-the-fall-of-rome

A study of tree rings recently published in the journal Science provides evidence of climate shifts that, perhaps not coincidentally, occurred from A.D. 250 to 550, a period better known as the fall of the Roman Empire.
...
They created a detailed history of climate change over the past 2.5 millennia and found the data point to the end of the Roman Empire as a period of exceptional climate change.
...
"Like any large civilization — including the civilization we have today — it was highly dependent on predictability of natural resources," Mann says. "It was very heavily adapted to the climate conditions that had persisted for centuries."

Obviously this would be just one of many factors, including raging barbarian hordes (which might have been displaced by climate change as well), incompetent emperors and corrupt leadership. Interesting twist to add this newly found evidence into the mix to say the least. Shows the importance of understanding the sun's connection to climate change.

 

[waggy]

Ceaser should have instituted a cap and trade. Perhaps banned big SUV's and such.

 

[sandorski]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/22/133143758/could-climate-change-have-led-to-the-fall-of-rome


Obviously this would be just one of many factors, including raging barbarian hordes (which might have been displaced by climate change as well), incompetent emperors and corrupt leadership. Interesting twist to add this newly found evidence into the mix to say the least. Shows the importance of understanding the sun's connection to climate change.

lolwut? Volcanoes would have been the largest factor back then, regarding Climate shifts.

 

[Schadenfroh]

lolwut? Volcanoes would have been the largest factor back then, regarding Climate shifts.

The researchers mentioned both solar and volcanic factors.

"Presumably it was some combination of these external natural factors like solar variability and volcanic eruptions, and just the pure sort of chaotic variability of the climate system," Mann speculates.

 

[zephyrprime]

Yeash. This is a heck of a stretch and highly uninformative article. If there were a major climate change, I could easily see that contributing to the fall of Rome. However, the article only states that there was some variability in the rings in the trees. Was it a lot or a little variability? Unspecified.

 

[sandorski]

The researchers mentioned both solar and volcanic factors.

...and you immediately emphasized the choice of Deniers. Sorry, volcanoes are a far bigger monkey wrench than Solar will ever(barring the Sun going Nova) be.

 

[101mpg]

I thought the crusades were caused by climate change, like the christians thought the cold weather that caused a famine was because god was angry for letting the muslims have the holy land, or something like that

 

[boomerang]

If only they'd had thermometers to put by heat sources, we'd know definitively.

 

[werepossum]

EVERYTHING that has ever happened, or ever will happen, or will fail to happen, is caused by global warming. Get used to it. Since we have had to cancel the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age to fit Mann's hockey stick, obviously the climate was neither warmer nor cooler during the fall of the Roman Empire; it was simply more conservative.

 

[ElFenix]

you know... cuz the eastern empire didn't last for another 1000 years...

 

[Elias824]

The real reason the roman empire fell
The use of lead pipes for drinking water.

 

[shiner]

A dingo global warming ate my baby!

 

[BudAshes]

The real reason the roman empire fell
The use of lead pipes for drinking water.

Yeah this.

lets just hope we don't find out we are doing equally stupid stuff.

 

[NeoV]

we have a winner - werepossum with the mention of Mann's hockey stick, from denier 101 textbooks...never mind the fact that literally DOZENS of other studies come up with the same general conclusions - but because there was an error in one graph sited by Satan - aka the Gore - he's going to cling to that like flies to shit...

so simple minded...

the article, btw, is complete fail

 

[Nintendesert]

Hell yes this is true, without the Mammoth to sustain the Roman Empire it eventually collapsed.

 

[monovillage]

I partly agree with NeoV that the article was complete fail, but werepossums mention of Manns thoroughly debunked hockey stick was quite valid since he was quoted several times in the article.

 

[Hacp]

we have a winner - werepossum with the mention of Mann's hockey stick, from denier 101 textbooks...never mind the fact that literally DOZENS of other studies come up with the same general conclusions - but because there was an error in one graph sited by Satan - aka the Gore - he's going to cling to that like flies to shit...

so simple minded...

the article, btw, is complete fail

Most of the data are obtained using the same sources. What does that mean? If you obtain data from the same source, no matter how you manipulate it, you will get the same or similar results. You need multiple, independently maintained sources of temperature data to get an accurate result. In this case, unless the consensus has experimental data to back up its models(IE, the models can predict temperatures accurately), then the consensus is BULLSHIT.

 

[dmcowen674]

Conservatives killed Rome

Remember Etu Brute?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The real reason the roman empire fell
The use of lead pipes for drinking water.

And wine casks were lined with lead to sweeten it.

 

[jhbball]

Most of the data are obtained using the same sources. What does that mean? If you obtain data from the same source, no matter how you manipulate it, you will get the same or similar results. You need multiple, independently maintained sources of temperature data to get an accurate result. In this case, unless the consensus has experimental data to back up its models(IE, the models can predict temperatures accurately), then the consensus is BULLSHIT.

lol embarrassing (for you).

 

[PingSpike]

I thought the crusades were caused by climate change, like the christians thought the cold weather that caused a famine was because god was angry for letting the muslims have the holy land, or something like that

Weren't the crusades caused by to many warlords hanging around with nothing to do? The kings sent them to the middle east to fuck up and plunder that place because they knew if they didn't keep them busy sooner or later they'd fuck up their shit instead. It was like this: If things went well, they'd steal some treasure or maybe take some land. If things went bad, the guy you sent came home in a body bag. Either way, he's out of your hair.

 

[Texashiker]

The real reason the roman empire fell
The use of lead pipes for drinking water.

This - using lead in plates, drinking cups, makeup for women. There was a study on the discovery channel about how much lead the romans used, its probably the main reason why so many romans could not have children.

The climate change probably affected stuff also, but when you have people that are crazy from the lead,,, what do you expect?

 

[irishScott]

And in part the Rise of Europe that led to the Crusades among other things. Climate change is responsible for a shitload of history, of course then we were more dependent on climate.

 

[irishScott]

Weren't the crusades caused by to many warlords hanging around with nothing to do? The kings sent them to the middle east to fuck up and plunder that place because they knew if they didn't keep them busy sooner or later they'd fuck up their shit instead. It was like this: If things went well, they'd steal some treasure or maybe take some land. If things went bad, the guy you sent came home in a body bag. Either way, he's out of your hair.

In part, but how did they get to that state? Remember prior to the Crusades Islam was pretty much kicking ass.

Generally speaking the theory goes climate change = better crop yields = population explosion = expansion. Of course it's only one factor, but a very significant one.

 

[CycloWizard]

The real reason the roman empire fell
The use of lead pipes for drinking water.

Lead is still prevalent in many water distribution systems in the US today. It forms scales (surface layers of oxides and other chemicals) which prevent leaching of lead into the water stream. Problems arise when the EPA suddenly mandates changes in drinking water chemistry, causing the scale to slough, temporarily exposing the water to lead again until new types of scale form. Since the Romans didn't have the EPA to worry about, lead pipes weren't really a problem for them. There are still 2000+-year-old water fountains in Rome which you can safely drink from. The bigger problem was exposure to precious metals, as the rich guys ate using real silverware causing a buildup of mercury. Caligula is a prime example of what happens when inbreeding and accumulation of neurotoxins occur. That said, his horse probably did a better job in the senate than most of the people in ours.