Global Extremes:8-29-07 NOAA says human activity to blame for increase in gases and hottest temps on record

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
CA should build high speed rail instead of pushing the problem to the automakers.
Instead of expanding rail system, maybe building BART down to Silicon Valley, they are building more carpool lanes for hippies to cruise on in their hybrids. So we get very low utilization carpool lanes sucking in transportation money that could have been used to say build a train system so one can hop on it and go down to LA or San Diego or Disneyland, maybe a branch to Vegas, or whatever instead of driving. How awesome would that be? Get on a high speed train in SF, and in 2 hours, you are in Los Angeles.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: senseamp
CA should build high speed rail instead of pushing the problem to the automakers.
Instead of expanding rail system, maybe building BART down to Silicon Valley, they are building more carpool lanes for hippies to cruise on in their hybrids. So we get very low utilization carpool lanes sucking in transportation money that could have been used to say build a train system so one can hop on it and go down to LA or San Diego or Disneyland, maybe a branch to Vegas, or whatever instead of driving. How awesome would that be? Get on a high speed train in SF, and in 2 hours, you are in Los Angeles.

Why waste all that money? You can get to SF or Vegas from LA in 1 hour on Southwest for $49.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: senseamp
CA should build high speed rail instead of pushing the problem to the automakers.
Instead of expanding rail system, maybe building BART down to Silicon Valley, they are building more carpool lanes for hippies to cruise on in their hybrids. So we get very low utilization carpool lanes sucking in transportation money that could have been used to say build a train system so one can hop on it and go down to LA or San Diego or Disneyland, maybe a branch to Vegas, or whatever instead of driving. How awesome would that be? Get on a high speed train in SF, and in 2 hours, you are in Los Angeles.

Why waste all that money? You can get to SF or Vegas from LA in 1 hour on Southwest for $49.

Not spontaneously, you can't. Maybe $49 if you buy ticket a month in advance. Plus it's 1 hr flight time, but you are going to waste a solid 2 hrs+ with all the hoops you gotta jump through to fly.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,458
527
126
So i read an article on the International Global Warming Report.

Looks Like Minnesota is the place to live - FTW!!!!!!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
That damn GW at it again:

6-27-2007 South Africa dusted by rare snow storm

JOHANNESBURG - A rare winter snowstorm dusted South Africa's commercial capital Johannesburg early on Wednesday as a winter weather front moved across the country, closing mountain passes and claiming at least one life.

"SNOWBURG" trumpeted the headline of Johannesburg's Star newspaper.

Gleeful children built snowmen in Johannesburg's Zoo Lake Park, while families could be seen carrying snowballs back to their cars, fast melting souvenirs of the city's first significant snowfall since 1981.

Johannesburg Emergency Services spokesman Malcolm Midgely said a homeless man had been found dead of exposure in the city centre after what he said was the first real snowfall in more than a generation.

"There've been a few minor incidents since (1981), in 1996 we had a little bit of sleet, but it was none of the big, thick stuff," Midgely told the SAPA news agency.

 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
It was rare, which implies that it has happened before in the past. Is GW to blame for the previous snow fall, including the one in 1981?
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,458
527
126
Originally posted by: shrumpage
It was rare, which implies that it has happened before in the past. Is GW to blame for the previous snow fall, including the one in 1981?

No...that was Global Cooling....

Get your man-made disasters right!
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
So i read an article on the International Global Warming Report.

Looks Like Minnesota is the place to live - FTW!!!!!!

:music:Min-ne-sota is the place to bee:music:
:music:Gonna have the climate of Mi-am-eee:music:
:music:Just like before the Ocean rose:music:
:music: and covered Florida from end to end:music:
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
113 degrees over in Europe must be the Global Cooling that resident Republicans keep talkiing about:

7-24-07European heat wave death toll hits 35

Southern Europe sizzled under a heat wave Tuesday, with temperatures hitting triple digits for a seventh day in Romania, blazes forcing the evacuation of tourists in Croatia and Italy, and wildfires in Macedonia and Greece exploding shells from long-ago wars. At least 35 heat-related deaths were reported.

As temperatures in Bucharest hit 105 on Tuesday, heavy use of air conditioning caused power outages in the city

Fires forced the rescue of about 250 beach-goers by boat on the Gargano peninsula, above the heel of the Italian boot, where temperatures hit 107 degrees, ANSA said.

Temperatures in Macedonia also reached 107 degrees amid a declared national emergency.

Old ordinance also exploded in northern Greece. Fires outside Kastoria ignited World War II shells, while others from the Greek Civil War of 1946-49 exploded in Epirus province.

Greek state services, including hospitals, remained on alert.

Athens was expected to reach 113 degrees Wednesday, with high humidity and air pollution levels.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
113 degrees over in Europe must be the Global Cooling that resident Republicans keep talkiing about:

7-24-07European heat wave death toll hits 35

Southern Europe sizzled under a heat wave Tuesday, with temperatures hitting triple digits for a seventh day in Romania, blazes forcing the evacuation of tourists in Croatia and Italy, and wildfires in Macedonia and Greece exploding shells from long-ago wars. At least 35 heat-related deaths were reported.

As temperatures in Bucharest hit 105 on Tuesday, heavy use of air conditioning caused power outages in the city

Fires forced the rescue of about 250 beach-goers by boat on the Gargano peninsula, above the heel of the Italian boot, where temperatures hit 107 degrees, ANSA said.

Temperatures in Macedonia also reached 107 degrees amid a declared national emergency.

Old ordinance also exploded in northern Greece. Fires outside Kastoria ignited World War II shells, while others from the Greek Civil War of 1946-49 exploded in Epirus province.

Greek state services, including hospitals, remained on alert.

Athens was expected to reach 113 degrees Wednesday, with high humidity and air pollution levels.
The first thing we learned in statistics was that a single case doesn't represent a trend. This is why we have pools, standard deviations, and something we like to call statistical significance. A heat wave in Europe--and by the way it always has them--is no more indicative of anything than if if hit 250 degrees in NYC and the ocean started to boil.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Humans 'affect global rainfall'


BBC


Human-induced climate change has affected global rainfall patterns over the 20th Century, a study suggests.
Researchers said changes to the climate had led to an increase in annual average rainfall in the mid-latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere.

But while Canada, Russia and northern Europe had become wetter, India and parts of Africa had become drier, the team of scientists added.

The findings will be published in the scientific journal Nature on Thursday.

Climate models have, for a number of years, suggested that human activity has led to changes to the distribution of rain and snow across the globe.

However, the computer models have been unable to pinpoint the extent of our influence, partly because drying in some regions have cancelled out moistening in others.

Making the link

The scientists from Canada, Japan, the UK and US used the patterns of the changes in different latitude bands instead of the global average.

They compared monthly precipitation observations from 1925-1999 to those generated by complex computer models to see if they could identify if human activity was affecting rainfall patterns.

"We show that anthropogenic forcing has had a detectable influence on observed changes in average precipitation within latitudinal bands," the researchers wrote in the paper.

"These changes cannot be explained by internal climate variability or natural forcing."

The team estimated that human activity, such as burning fossil fuels, was likely to have led to a 62mm increase in the annual precipitation trend over the past century over land areas located 40-70 degrees north, which includes Canada, northern Europe and Russia.

They also suggested the increase of greenhouse gases and sulphate aerosols in the atmosphere had contributed a 82mm increase in the southern tropics and subtropics (0-30 degrees south), and a 98mm decrease in precipitation in the northern tropics (0-30 degrees north).

They added that natural factors, such as volcanic eruptions, had contributed to shifts in the global rainfall patterns but to a much lesser extent.

etc.

Europe has seen a lot of floods in the northern part and heatwaves in the southern part. If you look at the map in the article the US is still not as drastically affected like Europe for example by this aspect of GW. Perhaps that is why some people still have the oystrich approach to GW.



 

imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: GrGr
Humans 'affect global rainfall'


BBC


Human-induced climate change has affected global rainfall patterns over the 20th Century, a study suggests.
Researchers said changes to the climate had led to an increase in annual average rainfall in the mid-latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere.

But while Canada, Russia and northern Europe had become wetter, India and parts of Africa had become drier, the team of scientists added.

The findings will be published in the scientific journal Nature on Thursday.

Climate models have, for a number of years, suggested that human activity has led to changes to the distribution of rain and snow across the globe.

However, the computer models have been unable to pinpoint the extent of our influence, partly because drying in some regions have cancelled out moistening in others.

Making the link

The scientists from Canada, Japan, the UK and US used the patterns of the changes in different latitude bands instead of the global average.

They compared monthly precipitation observations from 1925-1999 to those generated by complex computer models to see if they could identify if human activity was affecting rainfall patterns.

"We show that anthropogenic forcing has had a detectable influence on observed changes in average precipitation within latitudinal bands," the researchers wrote in the paper.

"These changes cannot be explained by internal climate variability or natural forcing."

The team estimated that human activity, such as burning fossil fuels, was likely to have led to a 62mm increase in the annual precipitation trend over the past century over land areas located 40-70 degrees north, which includes Canada, northern Europe and Russia.

They also suggested the increase of greenhouse gases and sulphate aerosols in the atmosphere had contributed a 82mm increase in the southern tropics and subtropics (0-30 degrees south), and a 98mm decrease in precipitation in the northern tropics (0-30 degrees north).

They added that natural factors, such as volcanic eruptions, had contributed to shifts in the global rainfall patterns but to a much lesser extent.

etc.

Europe has seen a lot of floods in the northern part and heatwaves in the southern part. If you look at the map in the article the US is still not as drastically affected like Europe for example by this aspect of GW. Perhaps that is why some people still have the oystrich approach to GW.


I don't usually discuss about global warming because I don't like to discuss things I don't know or understand, and I am not a climate scientist. However, I know a few people at the Earth Institute in New York (http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/) and asked them a few questions about some clear observations I could do:

1. I ski in the Dolomites. The glaciers are retreating. I don't know if they went through cycles millions of years ago. What I do know is that some huge glaciers lost 70% of their volume in just 50 years. Natural cycles are not that fast, 50 years in geological terms is a fraction of a second.

Here are pictures of a few places I am familiar with in Italy and Switzerland:
http://www.greenpeace.org/italy/news/marmolada

http://weblog.greenpeace.org/m...rift_glacier_swit.html
Larger image:
http://radiowood.com/images/glacierswitzerland.jpg


2. In a few places I am familiar with in Italy, Spain and Southern France people are puzzled by the fact that it hasn't been snowing for almost a couple of decades. 1985 saw one of the years with the most snow precipitations of history... then it didn't ever snow again.

Now, as I said I am not a scientist so I will not try to speculate on why this is happening. However nobody with a pair of eyes can deny it is happening. I have seen with my eyes some of those glaciers retreat year after year.

When I asked people who study global warming about this I must say they were extremely candid in telling me that the speed of these phenomena leaves no doubt about the fact that human behavior is causing this. They told me nobody who scientifically studies the issue can honestly have doubts about this, because natural cycles in expansion and retreat of glaciers take tens of thousands of years, not 50 years.

Again, this is not my opinion, I am just stating what people educated in the subject told me about phenomena I merely observed.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: Tango
Originally posted by: GrGr
Humans 'affect global rainfall'


BBC


Human-induced climate change has affected global rainfall patterns over the 20th Century, a study suggests.
Researchers said changes to the climate had led to an increase in annual average rainfall in the mid-latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere.

But while Canada, Russia and northern Europe had become wetter, India and parts of Africa had become drier, the team of scientists added.

The findings will be published in the scientific journal Nature on Thursday.

Climate models have, for a number of years, suggested that human activity has led to changes to the distribution of rain and snow across the globe.

However, the computer models have been unable to pinpoint the extent of our influence, partly because drying in some regions have cancelled out moistening in others.

Making the link

The scientists from Canada, Japan, the UK and US used the patterns of the changes in different latitude bands instead of the global average.

They compared monthly precipitation observations from 1925-1999 to those generated by complex computer models to see if they could identify if human activity was affecting rainfall patterns.

"We show that anthropogenic forcing has had a detectable influence on observed changes in average precipitation within latitudinal bands," the researchers wrote in the paper.

"These changes cannot be explained by internal climate variability or natural forcing."

The team estimated that human activity, such as burning fossil fuels, was likely to have led to a 62mm increase in the annual precipitation trend over the past century over land areas located 40-70 degrees north, which includes Canada, northern Europe and Russia.

They also suggested the increase of greenhouse gases and sulphate aerosols in the atmosphere had contributed a 82mm increase in the southern tropics and subtropics (0-30 degrees south), and a 98mm decrease in precipitation in the northern tropics (0-30 degrees north).

They added that natural factors, such as volcanic eruptions, had contributed to shifts in the global rainfall patterns but to a much lesser extent.

etc.

Europe has seen a lot of floods in the northern part and heatwaves in the southern part. If you look at the map in the article the US is still not as drastically affected like Europe for example by this aspect of GW. Perhaps that is why some people still have the oystrich approach to GW.


I don't usually discuss about global warming because I don't like to discuss things I don't know or understand, and I am not a climate scientist. However, I know a few people at the Earth Institute in New York (http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/) and asked them a few questions about some clear observations I could do:

1. I ski in the Dolomites. The glaciers are retreating. I don't know if they went through cycles millions of years ago. What I do know is that some huge glaciers lost 70% of their volume in just 50 years. Natural cycles are not that fast, 50 years in geological terms is a fraction of a second.

Here are pictures of a few places I am familiar with in Italy and Switzerland:
http://www.greenpeace.org/italy/news/marmolada

http://weblog.greenpeace.org/m...rift_glacier_swit.html
Larger image:
http://radiowood.com/images/glacierswitzerland.jpg


2. In a few places I am familiar with in Italy, Spain and Southern France people are puzzled by the fact that it hasn't been snowing for almost a couple of decades. 1985 saw one of the years with the most snow precipitations of history... then it didn't ever snow again.

Now, as I said I am not a scientist so I will not try to speculate on why this is happening. However nobody with a pair of eyes can deny it is happening. I have seen with my eyes some of those glaciers retreat year after year.

When I asked people who study global warming about this I must say they were extremely candid in telling me that the speed of these phenomena leaves no doubt about the fact that human behavior is causing this. They told me nobody who scientifically studies the issue can honestly have doubts about this, because natural cycles in expansion and retreat of glaciers take tens of thousands of years, not 50 years.

Again, this is not my opinion, I am just stating what people educated in the subject told me about phenomena I merely observed.

Exactly. Another example is the Baltic Sea. The average temperature of the Baltic Sea has risen by 1 degree Centigrade in about two decades. Now when it comes to that large a volume of water it is an abnormally rapid increase that cannot be explained by natural cycles alone.


 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Tango

I don't usually discuss about global warming because I don't like to discuss things I don't know or understand, and I am not a climate scientist.

In a few places I am familiar with in Italy, Spain and Southern France people are puzzled by the fact that it hasn't been snowing for almost a couple of decades. 1985 saw one of the years with the most snow precipitations of history... then it didn't ever snow again.

Now, as I said I am not a scientist so I will not try to speculate on why this is happening.

However nobody with a pair of eyes can deny it is happening.

I have seen with my eyes some of those glaciers retreat year after year.

When I asked people who study global warming about this I must say they were extremely candid in telling me that the speed of these phenomena leaves no doubt about the fact that human behavior is causing this.

They told me nobody who scientifically studies the issue can honestly have doubts about this, because natural cycles in expansion and retreat of glaciers take tens of thousands of years, not 50 years.

Again, this is not my opinion, I am just stating what people educated in the subject told me about phenomena I merely observed.

Thank you for not being blind and being honest. :thumbsup:
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,962
456
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
113 degrees over in Europe must be the Global Cooling that resident Republicans keep talkiing about:

7-24-07European heat wave death toll hits 35

Southern Europe sizzled under a heat wave Tuesday, with temperatures hitting triple digits for a seventh day in Romania, blazes forcing the evacuation of tourists in Croatia and Italy, and wildfires in Macedonia and Greece exploding shells from long-ago wars. At least 35 heat-related deaths were reported.

As temperatures in Bucharest hit 105 on Tuesday, heavy use of air conditioning caused power outages in the city

Fires forced the rescue of about 250 beach-goers by boat on the Gargano peninsula, above the heel of the Italian boot, where temperatures hit 107 degrees, ANSA said.

Temperatures in Macedonia also reached 107 degrees amid a declared national emergency.

Old ordinance also exploded in northern Greece. Fires outside Kastoria ignited World War II shells, while others from the Greek Civil War of 1946-49 exploded in Epirus province.

Greek state services, including hospitals, remained on alert.

Athens was expected to reach 113 degrees Wednesday, with high humidity and air pollution levels.
The first thing we learned in statistics was that a single case doesn't represent a trend. This is why we have pools, standard deviations, and something we like to call statistical significance. A heat wave in Europe--and by the way it always has them--is no more indicative of anything than if if hit 250 degrees in NYC and the ocean started to boil.

I beg to differ!

I have friends and family in Eastern Europe, and the heat waves they've experienced in the past ten years are without precedent. And even if the people's memory is faulty, oficial records don't lie.

It's official: CNN announced yesterday, July 24th 2007, that Bucharest, the capital of Romania, was the hottest place on the planet.

The people of Bucharest felt temperatures reaching 50 degrees Celsius at ground level... while the Sahara desert was at a balmy 37 degrees!

I was in Romania for the European Union accession festivities, in December, and it was a warm, snowless winter.

Unless you're blind, stupid and really stubborn, there is no denial these are not "spikes on an otherwise normal development curve." The climate is in a state of extreme oscillation, going from extreme hot to cold - England is drowning, while Europe is baking.

But until it starts getting really bad in the U.S., there's no chance for Americans to understand these as facts, not conspiracy theories.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Sigh... a summer heat wave (or even a decade of summer heat waves) does not global warming make. In fact, most scientists would argue that a decade-long trend of mild winters would be a far more troubling sign of global warming. It's averages, not extremes, that pose the danger. Plus, it's a GLOBAL phenomenon. Of course it's already affecting the US. People think it's conspiracy theories because every time some unusual weather pattern hits some sheep bleats global warming.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,220
654
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Sigh... a summer heat wave (or even a decade of summer heat waves) does not global warming make. In fact, most scientists would argue that a decade-long trend of mild winters would be a far more troubling sign of global warming. It's averages, not extremes, that pose the danger. Plus, it's a GLOBAL phenomenon. Of course it's already affecting the US. People think it's conspiracy theories because every time some unusual weather pattern hits some sheep bleats global warming.

You mean I can't look at my thermometer and see if it is unseasonably cold/hot to decide if global warming exists or not?? :laugh:
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Global Extremes is what they should change the name of the phenonemon:

8-8-2007Weather Extremes Match Forecast

GENEVA - Floods in Asia, a cyclone in the Middle East, and extreme temperatures around the globe since the start of the year have borne out warnings in a key climate change report, an expert with the U.N. weather agency said Tuesday.

"The start of the year 2007 was a very active year in terms of extreme climatic and meteorological events," said Omar Baddour, a climatologist with the World Meteorological Organization.

Global surface temperatures in January ? when Europe experienced an unusually mild winter ? were the highest since records began. According to data compiled by WMO, temperatures measurements were 3.4 degrees Fahrenheit above the 127-year average.

The Geneva-based agency said April temperatures around the world rose 2.46 degrees above the average since 1880. Record storms, floods and heat waves have since occurred in Africa, Asia, Europe and South America.

It said two heat waves in southeastern Europe in June and July broke previous records, with temperatures in Bulgaria hitting 113 degrees on July 23.

Other extreme events this year include rare snowfall in South Africa and Argentina, and the first cyclone ever documented in the Arabian Sea, according to WMO.

But he added that climate scientists had reached a consensus that weather extremes have increased over the past 50 years and that this trend would likely continue.

"There is no other consensus model than this one," he said.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Getting wild in New York City

8-8-2007 Rainstorm, tornado warnings in NYC area

NEW YORK - Torrential rain flooded subways and rail lines and delayed flights early Wednesday at New York's three major airports and thousands of commuters were unable to get to work.

Flash flood warnings also were issued, setting up an exceptionally steamy afternoon. The weather service issued a heat advisory that warned of temperatures that could climb to 101 because of the muggy weather.

Most subway lines in the city were experiencing delays or diversions, and there was no rail service to Grand Central Station on some lines. Some rail routes from New Jersey into Manhattan were shut down for more than an hour.

 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Forecaster cuts 2007 hurricane outlook

The 2007 hurricane season may be less severe than forecast due to cooler-than-expected water temperatures in the tropical Atlantic

So, what are we learning class? Anybody? Anyone?

Weather extremes. No hurricanes one year, 3X or 4X the next. I am in a severe drought area and fifty miles south flash flood warnings. Ah-huh! Ah-huh!
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Vic
Sigh... a summer heat wave (or even a decade of summer heat waves) does not global warming make. In fact, most scientists would argue that a decade-long trend of mild winters would be a far more troubling sign of global warming. It's averages, not extremes, that pose the danger. Plus, it's a GLOBAL phenomenon. Of course it's already affecting the US. People think it's conspiracy theories because every time some unusual weather pattern hits some sheep bleats global warming.

In your strawman argument you forgot to mention the average global temperature. It is on the rise?? Like a hundred fifty years high??
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
This is a sign the Republicans are losing control of the propaganda machine:

8-29-2007 NOAA blames hot year on human greenhouse gases

WASHINGTON - "We have met the enemy, and he is us," the comic-strip character Pogo said decades ago. A new analysis of last year's near-record temperatures in the United States suggests he was right.

Warming caused by human activity was the biggest factor in the high temperatures recorded in 2006, according to a report by researchers at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

They ran 42 different tests using complex computer models to simulate changes in the atmosphere under various conditions and concluded that the "2006 warmth was primarily due to human influences."
========================================================
Interesting because P&Ners swear the computer Models are junk.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,007
136
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Forecaster cuts 2007 hurricane outlook

The 2007 hurricane season may be less severe than forecast due to cooler-than-expected water temperatures in the tropical Atlantic

So, what are we learning class? Anybody? Anyone?

We'd have to be open to education, the religion behind global warming does not need such facts. The deeply devout ignore these things and remove any scientist from the scientific community who dares mention it. The debate is over when the iron curtain falls and silence and distortion are demanded.

The fact that medieval buildings are found under newly melted glaciers ?which have never melted before? puts a serious gouge of believability in this religion. Like evolution VS creationism, we have historical evidence VS the alarmists here.