Giving free aid to North Korea failed to make them nice

[fskimospy]

We should never give aid to aggressive militaristic countries unless they allow us to hand out the aid to the people. This is like giving out aid to Germans during the war so they can continue to kill people. Communist countries should never get aid and terrorist nations should never get any aid.

We aren't giving it to them so that their people are fed. (at least not principally) So why would we put those conditions on it?

 

[EagleKeeper]

We aren't giving it to them so that their people are fed. (at least not principally) So why would we put those conditions on it?

So then what is the purpose of giving them those food supplies? Warm fuzzy.
are we sending food to every 3rd world country?

 

[fskimospy]

So then what is the purpose of giving them those food supplies? Warm fuzzy.
are we sending food to every 3rd world country?

Did you read the thread?

 

[EagleKeeper]

I read the thread and fully agree that a bag of rice is not making one iota of difference in their behaivor.

You are the one that is claiming that we should continue to give, even though there is no positive results.

If nothing else, it demonstrates to them that we can be manipulated into providign items that they can utilize to prevent issues with their own population

 

[fskimospy]

I read the thread and fully agree that a bag of rice is not making one iota of difference in their behaivor.

You are the one that is claiming that we should continue to give, even though there is no positive results.

If nothing else, it demonstrates to them that we can be manipulated into providign items that they can utilize to prevent issues with their own population

I have no idea how you could possibly make such a claim considering the facts. The North Koreans had enough plutonium to build about a dozen nuclear bombs back in the 1990s. In return for fuel aid and along with other food programs, we were able to secure the shutdown of their plutonium generating plant, halt the construction of more, and lock up the materials necessary to make those bombs. Bush terminated these aid programs and the North Koreans subsequently took their fuel rods out of containment, and used it to make some bombs.

While there are some claims (if they are correct or not is unclear) that the North Koreans decided to go a different route and try and make nukes using uranium, every bomb they have now to the best of our knowledge came from plutonium, the exact thing that our aid was keeping locked away.

You will also notice that after all that happened, the Bush administration radically changed their approach when they realized that the 'cut of all aid' idea they had was a catastrophically bad idea. Can you perhaps explain what you think your idea gets right that 3 separate administrations from both parties don't seem to understand? (and why one of those administrations tried your idea and then abandoned it?)

I'm sorry if you don't think that counts as 'changing their behavior one iota', but reality seems to disagree. You guys are approaching this from an emotional level instead of a rational one. It FEELS wrong to you, so it must be wrong.

 

[yllus]

AFAIK the goal is not to make them nice, since that's an impossible goal. The goal is to buy them off for as little money as possible. The status quo is doing just fine in that regard, unless you're a North Korean - but I think the West has had its fill of regime changes for a while.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Bush terminated the aid program because the NK were not keeping their word.

Under Clinton, we have also seem the same thing happen.

NK will say onething and then do what it wants to anyhow. So we reward them for bad behaivor?

 

[fskimospy]

Bush terminated the aid program because the NK were not keeping their word.

Under Clinton, we have also seem the same thing happen.

NK will say onething and then do what it wants to anyhow. So we reward them for bad behaivor?

Actually, whether or not the NK's were violating the agreement is debatable, but that's neither here nor there.

Even if that was 100% true, the removal of aid gave them a vastly easier path to nuclear weapons than the one they had before, and they put it to good use. Our aid programs in that case were retarding their nuclear weapons development.

You have still not addressed the fact that the Bush administration tried your approach and then returned to mine. How do you account for this, and doesn't that give you a thought that maybe it turned out to be a bad idea?

 

[werepossum]

Bush terminated the aid program because the NK were not keeping their word.

Under Clinton, we have also seem the same thing happen.

NK will say onething and then do what it wants to anyhow. So we reward them for bad behaivor?

This has been the problem all along. They promise not to do something we don't want, so we reward them while they do it anyway. They know they have no intention of keeping their word, we know they have no intention of keeping their word, but we have this idea that we have to do something. So we make an agreement and start up the aid train until their behavior once again becomes too egregious to ignore. Then we stop the food aid, North Korea rattles its sabers, and we start the aid train again. And of course even the Gargoyle is smart enough to know that the left can be reliably counted on to blame the right for North Korea's actions, no matter what, every time - and to insist that North Korea's bad behavior is our own fault. The left sees no evil but America, ever, so by default all evil actions come back to America (and specifically to SUV-driving rich white Republicans.) Bu bu bu bu Bush! Then they propose the exact same thing that has failed miserably over and over again while insisting that THIS time will be different, THIS time will be unique. It's the very definition of insanity.

 

[fskimospy]

This has been the problem all along. They promise not to do something we don't want, so we reward them while they do it anyway. They know they have no intention of keeping their word, we know they have no intention of keeping their word, but we have this idea that we have to do something. So we make an agreement and start up the aid train until their behavior once again becomes too egregious to ignore. Then we stop the food aid, North Korea rattles its sabers, and we start the aid train again. And of course even the Gargoyle is smart enough to know that the left can be reliably counted on to blame the right for North Korea's actions, no matter what, every time - and to insist that North Korea's bad behavior is our own fault. The left sees no evil but America, ever, so by default all evil actions come back to America (and specifically to SUV-driving rich white Republicans.) Bu bu bu bu Bush! Then they propose the exact same thing that has failed miserably over and over again while insisting that THIS time will be different, THIS time will be unique. It's the very definition of insanity.

Speaking of insanity, your description of America and specifically the American left bears no resemblance to reality. If you actually believe what you just wrote, you probably are in need of therapy.

 

[werepossum]

Speaking of insanity, your description of America and specifically the American left bears no resemblance to reality. If you actually believe what you just wrote, you probably are in need of therapy.

Therapists are the lay priests of liberalism - I wouldn't fit in.

 

[fskimospy]

Therapists are the lay priests of liberalism - I wouldn't fit in.

You have a problem with therapists? Uhmmm, okay. I assume that means you do believe it. All I can say is that you need to get out more, because your view of the world is badly deluded.

 

[Atreus21]

instead of direct aid the western world needs to cut off his supply of western movies and western contraband....

and stop him from kidnapping Japanese and other Asian starlets...


then start airlifting food drops with cd's of modern music and care packages of jeans and slutty looking clothing...

within two years they would rebel...

oh dont forget snickers bars....some credit snickers bars as being the last straw for Communist russia...

Oh bullshit. Everyone knows it was Twix's.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

The North Koreans were given aid. The Europeans were given aid. The North Koreans didn't change their behavior. The Europeans did not change their behavior either - they went straight back to colonialism.

Uh, what? The point of the Marshall Plan was to make the Europeans sympathize with the U.S. instead of Russia in the wake of the war.