Given what we know, how powerful do you think the Wii U is?

[tipoo]

Edit: Poll was a bit of an afterthought, please specify in the comments.

We know that it has a typical gaming power draw of 45w and peak of 75w, 1GB RAM reserved for the OS (odd) and 1GB (probably shared?) available to games, and an unconfirmed amount of eDRAM cache, we don't know if it's by the CPU or GPU or if both can use it though. Apart from those things we only have rumors to go on, the GPU seems likely to be an RV7** derivative, although some more recent rumors and emails from AMD said the embedded E6760. The CPU is more of a mystery, IBM recently retracted statements that said it was Power7 based, instead calling it only "power based" and apologizing for the past reference error. We also know it is 45nm, like the 360 Slim CPU now is. With only a max of 75 watts to work with the CPU is probably constrained to 25 or so, I think, possibly less given the typical total power draw of 45w counting power supply inefficiency etc.

So what I'm wondering is, would a modern Power architecture under such low power draw be able to significantly outperform the processors in the PS360, especially a well coded for Cell? Even compared to the slim versions of either, it has less power to work with, less chassis space for cooling, and on the same manufacturing process. The consensus from developers seems to be that the GPU is significantly better than the old consoles but the CPU is holding things back, some even say it's weaker than the 360. But then, maybe they need to get used to it like they did for the Cell, although I don't think it's that far-out an architecture this time and they already know how to use multithreading this time around.

Anyways, curious what everyone thinks.

 

[purbeast0]

try searching, or looking on the first page of the forum.

 

[mmntech]

Devs have said it's rougly as powerful as the 360 and PS3.

 

[tipoo]

try searching, or looking on the first page of the forum.

I didn't see anything specific to the new information given by Nintendo at their Japan event, so I thought it would be better to make a new thread.

 

[Veliko]

Six.

 

[Dumac]

Why is"about the same" and "a decent jump" lumped together? Those two are completely different

 

[tipoo]

Why is"about the same" and "a decent jump" lumped together? Those two are completely different

Because on the grand scale of things I think that's mostly similar, looking at the Wii. I think it would be fair to say that was about half again as powerful as the previous generation, and the games did look better, but not enough to lump it into the next gen category. Even with a 50% jump over the current gen, it also has to render two screens, so some of the benefit would be eaten up already.

 

[Tom]

100% more tablet.

 

[Dumac]

Because on the grand scale of things I think that's mostly similar, looking at the Wii. I think it would be fair to say that was about half again as powerful as the previous generation, and the games did look better, but not enough to lump it into the next gen category. Even with a 50% jump over the current gen, it also has to render two screens, so some of the benefit would be eaten up already.

50% performance gain is a relatively large jump

I don't think that qualifies as the same category. I would like to know how many of those votes mean "about the same" vs "a decent jump"

 

[Todd33]

You are missing a choice, 1x-1.2x

Weak CPU, more memory (1GB shared) and decent GPU.

 

[tipoo]

I suppose so, voters please specify.

The poll was really an afterthought, what I'm wondering most about is that CPU, anyone want to venture a guess if IBM can make a 45nm CPU with a ~20w power draw that performs better than a well coded for Cell? If we were to look at the pinnacle of current IBM tech it would be the Power7 no doubt, but to fit in such a small power envelope it would have to be so radically different as to barely deserve the name. A bit like the Xbox 360 cores vs PowerPC G5, really.

And not only all that but IBM backed off from claims that it was Power7 derived and merely called it "power based", and apologized for the misleading tweets before.

Similarly, how would a 20 watt RV700 part fair?

Edit: The lowest end Power7 configuration, at 4 cores and just over 3GHz draws 100W...This thread is pretty informative

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=61773

So for the Wii U to have a typical gaming power draw of 45w and max of 75w, it would obviously be very cut down and low clocked.

 

[tipoo]

The lowest end Power7 configuration, at 4 cores and just over 3GHz draws 100W...This thread is pretty informative

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=61773

So for the Wii U to have a typical gaming power draw of 45w and max of 75w, it would obviously be very cut down and low clocked.

 

[BD2003]

50% performance gain is a relatively large jump

I don't think that qualifies as the same category. I would like to know how many of those votes mean "about the same" vs "a decent jump"

50% is a decent jump, but the typical generational leap is 500-1000%.

 

[clok1966]

Devs have said it's rougly as powerful as the 360 and PS3.

and look how good there games look after they have had a few years to work on stuff. POINT? people seldom know the true abilities of the hardware for awhile.. BUT i have heard they stuck pretty close to the Wii to make things easier for Devs.. so they could be pretty acurate. Of course it depends on the devs too.. PS3 only devs claim all sorts of abilities it has over 360 (and vis versa) on paper the PS3 was more powerfull then 360 but in real world now that both have had 2-3 years for devs to play with.. it seems a wash.
in when it comes to that.. that extra time the 360 had did lead to better games while the PS3 guys caught up.. POINT? with the WiiU how llong will it take to hit its stride? and will it be overshadowed by the next MS or Sony box? I dont think Nintendo can strike gold twice, especially when alot of Wii purchases lost interest quickly.. that dusty Wii might just remind them how littel they need Wiiu.. of course.. if they are bored of it, they will be ready for the "next" one..

I personally dont think it will match the PS3 or 360 power wise. MS and sony havent got there well known machines to Wii U size yet.. how did nintendo do it on first try?

 

[zerocool84]

I personally dont think it will match the PS3 or 360 power wise. MS and sony havent got there well known machines to Wii U size yet.. how did nintendo do it on first try?

Revisions on an existing designs compared to new. Plus no expandable memory so they were able to use flash memory instead of hard drives which obviously is significant space savings. Larger size console doesn't automatically mean faster or better.

 

[BD2003]

Either way there's enough info out there now to know this is a relatively small leap. The Wii U clearly isn't ushering the next gen.

 

[zerocool84]

Either way there's enough info out there now to know this is a relatively small leap. The Wii U clearly isn't ushering the next gen.

But we already knew that long ago when they first announced the WiiU. We just didn't know how little of a leap or step it is.

 

[Doppel]

Devs have said it's rougly as powerful as the 360 and PS3.

Wow, that is fvcking weak as hell. Those systems are like 50 years old now. They make great games still, but when the 720, ps3 come out, etc. they'll make the current ones look as crappy as they make the xbox and ps2 look.

 

[tipoo]

If it's close to the current gen, I'd fear the console turning out exactly like the Wii with a very early drop off in third party multiplatform games once the other two next gen consoles start being taken advantage of. The Wii was about 50% more powerful than the Gamecube, that's not enough of a generational jump.

 

[reallyscrued]

I don't get all the conjecture. We have the facts needed to take out the guesswork.

It's like this.


Going from a state of the computer in 2006 such as:

A mystical Intel 64 bit CPU with 3 cores, 165 million transistors, 3.2 Ghz, 1 MB of L2 at half speed
A Radeon 1950XT with HD2XXX shaders
512 MB of GDDR3

To a more current machine with its balls chopped off like:

A Mystical AMD Tri-Core CPU at 1.5 Ghz, 1 MB of L2 at full clockspeed
Radeon HD 6670 DDR5
1 GB of DDR3 RAM



Personally, I think it will be Xbox 360 x 1.5

Everything will just have larger assets, better texture resolutions, internal rendering will take place at real 720p or in some rare cases, 1080p, and the shader complexity will be greater.

It won't be a generational leap we're all accustomed to, but it won't be as painful as playing a Wii (interlaced 480p) on a high def TV.

I think it will a be a lot easier to forgive the system specs of the WiiU, unlike the Wii.

 

[ed21x]

The power draw on Nintendo consoles is usually much lower due to Nintendo's predisposition of using fully embedded systems, thus removing much of the inefficiencies of a PC and how there are so many bridges to work with.

A typical SoC draws far less power compared to its less integrated cousin (about 50-70% less). If it really is a E6760, that would be approximately 3x more powerful than a PS3.

Minus the programming inefficiencies of the Cell processor (taking advantage of all the cores is supposedly really difficult on the ps3), add in modern shader support, DX11, and you are looking at a significant jump in processing capabilities.

 

[ed21x]

Devs have said it's rougly as powerful as the 360 and PS3.

This was during the first SDK release. The specs were supposedly changed quite a few times since.

 

[reallyscrued]

The power draw on Nintendo consoles is usually much lower due to Nintendo's predisposition of using fully embedded systems, thus removing much of the inefficiencies of a PC and how there are so many bridges to work with.

A typical SoC draws far less power compared to its less integrated cousin (about 50-70% less). If it really is a E6760, that would be approximately 3x more powerful than a PS3.

Minus the programming inefficiencies of the Cell processor (taking advantage of all the cores is supposedly really difficult on the ps3), add in modern shader support, DX11, and you are looking at a significant jump in processing capabilities.

Don't forget that the optical drive holds 25 gigabytes per disk and can read at sustained speeds over 20 MB/s.



What's stupid is this:

Microsoft knows Ninty's plans in full, so does Sony. All they have to do is release another kickass gaming platform in a package for 2012 but all signs point to that not happening.

Sony has suggested they are going to release an "affordable, efficient" machine and Durango's specs are less than stellar as well.

Seems like everyone doing a sidegrade for the times, and how much you want a bet the competitors controllers will come with touchscreens embedded in the middle of them?

 

[BD2003]

Microsoft themselves have suggested a 6-8x leap in their own documents, and its kind of preposterous to imagine Sony not at least matching that.

Nintendo is going to be left in the dust.

 

[reallyscrued]

Microsoft themselves have suggested a 6-8x leap in their own documents, and its kind of preposterous to imagine Sony not at least matching that.

Nintendo is going to be left in the dust.

No. Not exactly. (And yeah, cuz I always believe what "Microsoft, themselves" tell me)

The 720 is lined up to use the same AMD Radeon chip in the Wii U.

The deciding factor next gen is going to be RAM and CPU prowess.

I suspect the WiiU will be 360 x 1.5, and the NextBox is going to be 360 x 4.

And despite what you find 'preposterous to imagine', you're wrong. < EDIT: Nvm. Apparently you're not wrong. Sony is matching the Xbox plus some more, according to latest specs.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/04/report-ign-sources-detail-confirm-sonys-rumored-ps4-specs/



At this point though, I don't see why it matters. Everything will be in half/high def at the very least, so the playing field will largely be even. Let games be the decider. Wanna play UE4 games? Get a computer.