Giuliani's former speechwriter breaks down his downfall and answers the question what changed him from great NYC mayor during 9/11

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,021
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He was a crime fighter (NY DA in the 1980s), a mayor (1990s) and a hero (NYC mayor during 9/11).

Then he lit his legacy on fire in service of Donald Trump and got nothing in return except disgrace, ignominy, (possible) disbarment and a gutting of his personal fortune.

How does that guy go from greatness last century to Trump's conspiracy theory pusher?
Answer: The right-wing ecosystem

It's the places you're giving speeches. It's the television networks you watch. You spend all your time with partisans. It isolates you from the act of responsibility of governing and uniting a very diverse city -- even certainly he had challenges with that.


Holy crap.
If that can happen to Giuliani, then I can imagine all the normal people turning into MAGA's because of Fox News :eek: :mad:
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Giuliani is simply human, and that behavior follows. The core of what happened is within us all.

He came from a time before modern media eliminated the bubbles of each separate locality and how individual people came across, experienced, and thought about things. A diverse nation of patriots who were taught and raised in the rule of law... most of them followed it and or at least justified their actions under it. Both that and science were somewhat adhered to by individual people across this nation, even if parties and interests did not. People were still coming from separate backgrounds. Most started off innocent and had to be corrupted. What united us was their education, their indoctrination as American citizens meant they were raised a certain way. It was a trust in the American system.

But to be raised does not result in a final product. An innocent youth does not necessarily last, as we humans are held together by faith. And only faith. You would know it by another word. Trust. And that trust can change, it can be misplaced or corrupted. What was once a diverse yet common American foundation... has since been entirely erased and replaced by party dogma.

24/7 news entered the world like a disease. It slowly erodes and erases individuality and diverse localities. Not physically, but mentally. The space of ideas in this nation shrank until there were just two clubs you could belong to. What it meant to be a Democrat or a Republican shrank to a checklist that had to be marked off. So fuck the law and fuck science, my sports team is going to win! Humans are biologically tribal, religious, zealots. It's just that sometimes the tribe you identify with... the people you trust... were decent and honest American educators and role models. Not anymore, those people are supplanted by party dogs. They bark and you follow.

That is what Fox News existed for. But it got worse with social media. Far worse. Now our parties exist beyond the filter of journalistic ethos, simple professionalism or even an aimed agenda. Now our dogma is just pure madness derived from the masses, spurred on by the desire to belong and the abundance of self aggrandizement your cell phone provides every minute of every day. It is poison to the mind, and to some degree every single human is a victim of this disease. We have sickened ourselves and corrupted countless in the process.

What North Korea and Russia are... is simply human. They are us, and before long you will come to recognize it in ourselves as our decent unto madness continues unabated.
If you doubt it, look at your opponent and ask yourself how you feel about them. What they want. And if you would truly allow it.
That is a civil discourse that has come to an end, a political system that no longer exists in any practical form. Society is an off the rails train still sliding along...
The peace you enjoy is a temporary respite afforded to us by sheer momentum, but our trajectory is.... uhh... far less than civil.

You only need look at the ghoul of this subject for proof of that. The madness he suffered and spread like a disease is only growing worse. And he wasn't the problem, just another victim of how we communicate. Fix it? That's like saying you're going to contain COVID. Far too late for that. The idea that we cannot live with each other is already cemented in our heads. And there is no person born free of the disease of madness we continue to spread, fresh minds are corrupted every day - there is no one that is going to stop it. No way to do so. Hard divisions have formed, the pot of boiling, and we're all just sitting around waiting for the spark.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Answer: The right-wing ecosystem

TL;DR, you're damn straight.
But you would be surprised... by just how fucked we truly are.
Giuliani, Jan 6th, mere red flags warning us of what is to come from this.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,189
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The mysteriously evasive question that needs to be answered by our politicians is "Who profits from the chaos that the right wing radicals are busy fomenting?" Who stands to gain from the divisiveness that FOX and the GOP leadership have been hammering into the heads of their lemmings? I mean, the answer becomes pretty obvious when the mere thought of it comes to mind, yet the people who are ultimately behind all of these crimes against the people aren't being held accountable. Too high up on the totem I guess.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
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The mysteriously evasive question that needs to be answered by our politicians is "Who profits from the chaos that the right wing radicals are busy fomenting?"

Who stands to gain from the divisiveness that FOX and the GOP leadership have been hammering into the heads of their lemmings?

I mean, the answer becomes pretty obvious when the mere thought of it comes to mind, yet the people who are ultimately behind all of these crimes against the people aren't being held accountable. Too high up on the totem I guess.
and the answer is?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
82,175
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Giuliani incited a police race riot while trying to become mayor, then oversaw a decrease in crime that mirrored national trends, then became a national hero for a minute when his city was attacked.

He was always a stupid shitbag.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,835
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Giuliani incited a police race riot while trying to become mayor, then oversaw a decrease in crime that mirrored national trends, then became a national hero for a minute when his city was attacked.

He was always a stupid shitbag.

My opinion of him comes from feelings I got watching him on TV. I knew about the mirror trends and the national hero garbage but don't consciously remember the police riot bit. Thanks for adding that. I should check it out. Stupid shitbag probably suits him better than ignoramus.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,020
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Yea, I agree he was never that great of a person. He was likely ethically compromised long before Trump, but people didn't know it. Then he got old and his brain rotted so the real Rudy came out as he wasn't smart enough to conceal it anymore.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,835
5,855
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When I look at him I think what an excellent Yorick his skull would make as a mantle piece. He looks suspiciously alien.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,703
136

He was a crime fighter (NY DA in the 1980s), a mayor (1990s) and a hero (NYC mayor during 9/11).

Then he lit his legacy on fire in service of Donald Trump and got nothing in return except disgrace, ignominy, (possible) disbarment and a gutting of his personal fortune.

How does that guy go from greatness last century to Trump's conspiracy theory pusher?
Answer: The right-wing ecosystem

It's the places you're giving speeches. It's the television networks you watch. You spend all your time with partisans. It isolates you from the act of responsibility of governing and uniting a very diverse city -- even certainly he had challenges with that.


Holy crap.
If that can happen to Giuliani, then I can imagine all the normal people turning into MAGA's because of Fox News :eek: :mad:
I don't believe he was a DA but a US attorney for NYC.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,155
136
I am really not sure he was that great of a mayor.

Yeah, this HOW GREAT HE WAS is just right wing propaganda. All the Trumpies push this delusion. I would bet that a lot of other people had a lot more to do with the so called cleaning up NYC than did Rudy, but knowing Rudy as we do he was right there waiting to take all the credit.
I do know that Giuliani bent over backwards allowing real estate tycoon Donald Trump to skirt the New York law and bypass regulations in creating his real estate empire. Trump was given breaks that most other New Yorkers in the same business were not given. And Giuliani allowed Trump to play funny games with his real estate taxes thus Trump got a lot of free stuff.
Yeah, I too am really not sure Giuliani was that great of a mayor.

Maybe Rudy hasn't changed at all since serving as mayor, maybe he was as clueless back then as he is today? It's just that back then no one really knew what was really going on. And it's funny to give Mr Giuliani credit for cleaning up the the scum of NYC when Giuliani is such a perverted scumbag himself. We DO have the photos....

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