Git Bin Liden - According to CBS's 60 minutes our military is retarded

[adlep]

Can't get no: Git Er Done from our military...

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5153449n&tag=api

1. It is weird because the US Delta Major sound like a redneck.
2. He states that they have developed few plans to kill OBL but the Bush administration failed to authorize plans for action.
3. According to the Delta Major, the Afghan allies were almost in charge at Tora Bora.
4. Osama just slipped away...


If I would be in charge, all of our resources would be there in 24 hours time - at least 1000 Special Operation troops and not just 50.
I would also consider using few tactical nukes there - or maybe a neutron bomb on the pass to Pakistan - small yeld to minimize casualties, but long term radiation effect - anybody trying to slip away would get free radiation therapy courtesy of US government.

From what this guy is saying, Bush is an absolute and total fucken failure. The entire operation at Tora Bora should be reviewed and the failures at the leadership level should be classified as a very high treason.

 

[Tangerines]

This should probably go to P&N, but regardless, the US Military was very close to catching bin Laden at Tora Bora.

 

[adlep]

This should probably go to P&N, but regardless, the US Military was very close to catching bin Laden at Tora Bora.

With fucken 50 troops? Are u kidding me? We had the bastard cornered. We have enough of an army to totally seal off the fricken pass to beloved patriot

 

[destrekor]

Can't get no: Git Er Done from our military...

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5153449n&tag=api

1. It is weird because the US Delta Major sound like a redneck.
2. He states that they have developed few plans to kill OBL but the Bush administration failed to authorize plans for action.
3. According to the Delta Major, the Afghan allies were almost in charge at Tora Bora.
4. Osama just slipped away...


If I would be in charge, all of our resources would be there in 24 hours time - at least 1000 Special Operation troops and not just 50.
I would also consider using few tactical nukes there - or maybe a neutron bomb on the pass to Pakistan - small yeld to minimize casualties, but long term radiation effect - anybody trying to slip away would get free radiation therapy courtesy of US government.

From what this guy is saying, Bush is an absolute and total fucken failure. The entire operation at Tora Bora should be reviewed and the failures at the leadership level should be classified as a very high treason.

There are these little things called the Geneva and Hague Conventions. I take it you've never heard of them.
Military Upper Echelons kind of have their hands tied in regards to using excessive and utterly destructive force. We can't just carpet bomb all of the mountain ranges in and around Afghanistan either (of which would probably work very well), because tribal folk also live there and we can't go the route of massive civilian casualties in the name of a military victory. Doesn't work that way anymore, the Laws of War make guerrilla and urban warfare hell for those that follow them.

edit:
and try getting Congress to approve sending the number of troops that is actually required to get things done effectively in those hell holes. Congress has been keeping the top commander's hands tied, and "Bush Administration" is far from just that. The top commander for the Army in the first half of the war wasn't very effective. General Petraeus can be argued as having been greatly effective and helped change the course of the war when commanding the forces in Iraq, and now as the top commander has been key to getting to where we are today. To the media, it's all the same. But in actuality, there has been huge progress.

 

[adlep]

There are these little things called the Geneva and Hague Conventions. I take it you've never heard of them.
Military Upper Echelons kind of have their hands tied in regards to using excessive and utterly destructive force. We can't just carpet bomb all of the mountain ranges in and around Afghanistan either (of which would probably work very well), because tribal folk also live there and we can't go the route of massive civilian casualties in the name of a military victory. Doesn't work that way anymore, the Laws of War make guerrilla and urban warfare hell for those that follow them.

What I am saying is prolly a bit excessive, true, so how about we compromise?
Lets send...500 troops vs. 50? And maybe a small howitzer?

 

[Nebor]

This should probably go to P&N, but regardless, the US Military was very close to catching bin Laden at Tora Bora.

He was pinned. He paid a Afghan Army leader a couple million dollars to let him pass through to Pakistan.

 

[destrekor]

What I am saying is prolly a bit excessive, true, so how about we compromise?
Lets send...500 troops vs. 50? And maybe a small howitzer?

I'll take your grossly understated numbers and, well... ignore them.
Did you hear the news, btw? 80k more troops on the way to Afghanistan. The whole draw-down in Iraq and increase presence in Afghanistan has been in the works for awhile.
More troops require Congressional approval. And we know how they just LOVE the cost of war. Ha.

 

[techs]

It may be a "conspiracy theory" but I think it's pretty plain that the Bush administration was having an orgasm at the thought of invading Iraq and felt that if they got Bin Laden public opinion would be that the job was "finished"

 

[2Xtreme21]

Bush couldn't have caught bin Laden... if he did, there'd be no more proverbial boogie-man, and the US citizens would start thinking for themselves again.

 

[sygyzy]

There are these little things called the Geneva and Hague Conventions. I take it you've never heard of them.
Military Upper Echelons kind of have their hands tied in regards to using excessive and utterly destructive force. We can't just carpet bomb all of the mountain ranges in and around Afghanistan either (of which would probably work very well), because tribal folk also live there and we can't go the route of massive civilian casualties in the name of a military victory. Doesn't work that way anymore, the Laws of War make guerrilla and urban warfare hell for those that follow them.

edit:
and try getting Congress to approve sending the number of troops that is actually required to get things done effectively in those hell holes. Congress has been keeping the top commander's hands tied, and "Bush Administration" is far from just that. The top commander for the Army in the first half of the war wasn't very effective. General Petraeus can be argued as having been greatly effective and helped change the course of the war when commanding the forces in Iraq, and now as the top commander has been key to getting to where we are today. To the media, it's all the same. But in actuality, there has been huge progress.

I am curious what the difference is between passing a law/convention/rule and enforcing it? Has the US ever broken Geneva Convention? If so, has it ever been "punished?" How exactly does the world court punish the most powerful country in the world?

 

[destrekor]

I am curious what the difference is between passing a law/convention/rule and enforcing it? Has the US ever broken Geneva Convention? If so, has it ever been "punished?" How exactly does the world court punish the most powerful country in the world?

Depends.
If it's on a small enough scale, the country itself deals with it. The US, using UCMJ, has properly handled all reported violations. If the US were to not handle punishment to the few who violated the Laws of War, and/or the majority of the military, with direct US consent, violated multiple Conventions, well... it isn't a fun time.
But by US standards, the various Conventions of both the Geneva and Hague type, are effectively US Law.

Actions taken would be entirely debatable, and will be different every time. The US has never even been close to condoning violations of the Laws. Individuals will do it, and that's for the country to handle.

If our entire country were to violate them, depending on the actual violations, immediate impacts would be a loss of allies, would probably see the world bodies such as the UN place various harsh sanctions (for a developed country, sanctions would be insanely brutal. Think the US Dollar is bad now? Might as well start printing our own bills if we were on the receiving end of UN Punishment). Depending on the crimes and the timing of the crimes, could see various small countries, potentially even larger ones, go about doing various things. Stopping trade, placing embargoes on certain commodities, potentially even officially declaring war on us.

The UN itself can't so much as "punish" us by any means other than various sanctions, but the UN, and like NATO, would be major discussion forms as to how the various individual countries would go about raping our government.

 

[0roo0roo]

if you watch an earlier 60 minutes clinton passed on an opportunity to kill him as well

course kill him and he becomes a martyr.

 

[0roo0roo]

dp

 

[adlep]

if you watch an earlier 60 minutes clinton passed on an opportunity to kill him as well

course kill him and he becomes a martyr.

I take a martyr any day over a construction engineer with a deep talent for waging a jihad, planting explosives, and financing...
He is better dead than alive.

 

[0roo0roo]

I take a martyr any day over a construction engineer with a deep talent for waging a jihad, planting explosives, and financing...
He is better dead than alive.

slowly dying hiding in a cave has its advantages.

the actual win from bombing him to death is minor. and its not like we can guantonamo him anymore...there would be so much whining. i'd be happy enough if he spent his last days running around hiding like a rat. you can't finance sh*t hiding in a cave.

 

[0roo0roo]

anyways i hardly can watch 60 minutes these days, its soft soft reporting.

you shoulda watched the one recently on the bit torrents and the piracy! i think they were just handed a script by the riaa/mpaa and they just went with it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/30/60minutes/main5464994.shtml


look at the same story on the "video piracy" in 1979 from 60 minutes
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x46qvy_60-minutes-on-video-piracy-1979-par_shortfilms
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x46sen_60-minutes-on-video-piracy-1979-par_shortfilms

 

[GoSharks]

2. He states that they have developed few plans to kill OBL but the Bush administration failed to authorize plans for action.

Unless I missed it, this was never explicitly stated.

 

[al981]

2. He states that they have developed few plans to kill OBL but the Bush administration failed to authorize plans for action.

ah. americans and their stupidity.

hint: america doesn't really want osama "the mastermind of 9/11" caught. if it did, it would've sent its hundred thousand strong armed forces into afghanistan and finished the job in a week.

how does that sound, america? someone comes into your home, murders your wife, murders your children, murders your dog, burns your house to the ground, and instead seeking out said murderer, you go on a vacation while putting up a "wanted" poster.

delusional hypocrites.

the us government has never wanted him caught. stop lying to yourselves

 

[0roo0roo]

ah. americans and their stupidity.

hint: america doesn't really want osama "the mastermind of 9/11" caught. if it did, it would've sent its hundred thousand strong armed forces into afghanistan and finished the job in a week.

how does that sound, america? someone comes into your home, murders your wife, murders your children, murders your dog, burns your house to the ground, and instead seeking out said murderer, you go on a vacation while putting up a "wanted" poster.

delusional hypocrites.

the us government has never wanted him caught. stop lying to yourselves

finished with your anti american diatribe? like it or not its a huge land area that is mountainous, the size of texas. to really search that area you need a sh*t load of people. anyways your analogy fails, if we are mowing down his buddies, rubbing his nose in it by holding "muslim land" then whether he lives is beside the point. the first thing anti american lefties say after all about terrorists is that these people are replaced as soon as they die.

 

[KeithP]

I am laughing too hard at the concept of someone taking 60 minutes seriously to respond right now.

-KeithP

 

[sygyzy]

Depends.
If it's on a small enough scale, the country itself deals with it. The US, using UCMJ, has properly handled all reported violations. If the US were to not handle punishment to the few who violated the Laws of War, and/or the majority of the military, with direct US consent, violated multiple Conventions, well... it isn't a fun time.
But by US standards, the various Conventions of both the Geneva and Hague type, are effectively US Law.

Actions taken would be entirely debatable, and will be different every time. The US has never even been close to condoning violations of the Laws. Individuals will do it, and that's for the country to handle.

If our entire country were to violate them, depending on the actual violations, immediate impacts would be a loss of allies, would probably see the world bodies such as the UN place various harsh sanctions (for a developed country, sanctions would be insanely brutal. Think the US Dollar is bad now? Might as well start printing our own bills if we were on the receiving end of UN Punishment). Depending on the crimes and the timing of the crimes, could see various small countries, potentially even larger ones, go about doing various things. Stopping trade, placing embargoes on certain commodities, potentially even officially declaring war on us.

The UN itself can't so much as "punish" us by any means other than various sanctions, but the UN, and like NATO, would be major discussion forms as to how the various individual countries would go about raping our government.

Oh really? "The US has properly handled all violations." That sounds like a very strong statement to make.

I don't have a political or military background nor the time (right now) to research it but you're saying the US has never violated international law (torture (Guantanamo), assassination (I distinctly remember US Forces assassinating a political figure in the last 10 years), war (UN didn't want US to go to war with Iraq).

Your argument is like me telling a student in a school they shouldn't worry about getting shot because guns are illegal to bring to schools plus students are too young to get a license to own a gun.

 

[Spineshank]

I believe we could probably get him whenever we wanted. However that would end the war, and that would mean no money coming in for the war. Its kind of like how we will never legalize weed because of all the money the government gets to "fight" it.