[The motherboard got replaced]Gigabyte Motherboards and new 'App Center' and 'SIV' issues

[UsandThem]

So I have used two Gigabyte utilities (App Center and SIV) since I bought my GA-Z170X-UD5 last November, without any major issues. I don't remember the version, but I think the ones I were running were from February 2016.

I am not a big fan of motherboard apps to begin with, but Gigabyte puts their advanced fan control options in the SIV (System Information Viewer) where you can tweak fan settings and other stuff like that. In the BIOS you can only have them run 'normal', 'full speed' or a manual percentage of PWM value. With an Asus motherboard for example, you can do all of your fan profiles right in the BIOS and do not need to install their app.

Anyways, I saw they had released a new version of the 'App Center' and 'SIV' on June 24th. The 'App Center' version is B16.0603.1, and the 'SIV' version is B16.0525.1, and they are definitely different looking over the previous version. I had a few hiccups here and there with the old version, so I decided to install the new ones. What I ended up getting were them not working properly and this:

So basically those two apps took my system from a '10' reliability rating down to a '2' within a few hours because of the constant crashes (it didn't crash my system, the app simply would crash over and over). The 'OCbuttonService' is automatically installed from installing 'App Center', and my CPU and RAM are not overclocked.

Anybody else upgrade their versions of these apps, and if you haven't, I don't recommend it at this point. Maybe it has something to do with the latest 'Windows Anniversary' update, but a Google search didn't turn up anything helpful.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Back in the S775 days, we had Gigabyte's EZTune6 program, that got installed if you use the mobo CD and let it auto-install, instead of going to their web site to download drivers.

It often was credited with causing crashes / BSODs.

 

[UsandThem]

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Back in the S775 days, we had Gigabyte's EZTune6 program, that got installed if you use the mobo CD and let it auto-install, instead of going to their web site to download drivers.

It often was credited with causing crashes / BSODs.

Yeah, I generally avoid all the programs and utilities that motherboard manufacturers want you to install. They are usually bigger headaches than they are usefull. I love the build and stability of my board, but Gigabyte really needs to put the fan profiles directly in the BIOS like Asus does.

I have several fans all running at low RPMs for silence, at least I did until this whole issue, and I used the 'silent' profile. My intake fans are on a fan controller in my Fractal Design R5, so no issues there. But my CPU and exhaust fan were controlled by my SIV profile. I guess I'll give them a little bit to fix the program, but like you said based on their history, I just might be SOL for a while or maybe I will just get a proper fan controller and use it for all my fans.

 

[UsandThem]

Just a bump for anybody who is thinking about trying to install the Gigabyte apps. They are still very much broken.

I saw another user a couple weeks post a warning about trying to use the app to update their BIOS using the @Bios app.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...te-appcenter-forced-bundled-software.2489591/

I have to say I am very disappointed they have left their apps with serious issues since June 2016. All I want is my custom fan profile back

 

[energee]

Just a bump for anybody who is thinking about trying to install the Gigabyte apps. They are still very much broken.

[...]

I have to say I am very disappointed they have left their apps with serious issues since June 2016. All I want is my custom fan profile back

I have a different model z170 Gigabyte motherboard, but there are options in the UEFI interface to assign a custom fan curve to each header using a temperature/speed graph, though I haven't had a chance to tinker with them yet. What is the revision of your BIOS? The latest revision for your motherboard as of this posting is F20, dated 2016/11/25. Perhaps fan support has improved since earlier versions?

Have you by any chance tried running PWM fans from the system fan headers? I need to buy a fan, and it's unclear to me whether the 4-pin system fan headers support controlling PWM fans; I've read conflicting reports.

 

[UsandThem]

I have a different model z170 Gigabyte motherboard, but there are options in the UEFI interface to assign a custom fan curve to each header using a temperature/speed graph, though I haven't had a chance to tinker with them yet. What is the revision of your BIOS? The latest revision for your motherboard as of this posting is F20, dated 2016/11/25. Perhaps fan support has improved since earlier versions?

Have you by any chance tried running PWM fans from the system fan headers? I need to buy a fan, and it's unclear to me whether the 4-pin system fan headers support controlling PWM fans; I've read conflicting reports.

No, there are no fan profiles I have seen yet, although they just released a new BIOS to support Kaby Lake CPUs, so I'll check it out soon (I always wait a bit for them to fix the inevitable issues).

As far as the PWM question, I have 2 PWM (exhaust and CPU) fans hooked to my motherboard (the rest are 3-pin, and on a controller). You'll have to look in your manual for the detailed info (mine is on page 26). The only true PWM connector on my board is the CPU_FAN connection. The remaining connectors (CPU_OPT and SYS-FAN1,2,3) are still 4-pin, but if you look at the pin layout, it shows +12v / Speed Control on pin 2 and VCC on pin 4.

So basically in simple terms, it simulates what a true PWM fan does. Here is a link where a person asks the same question (and post #4 shows what my manual does):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1550956/need-help-understanding-pwm-vcc

 

[UsandThem]

Also, I just read up a little bit on the F20 BIOS (I had already seen that it can't be rolled back), and there are some issues with it and overvolting Skylake CPUs. On top of that, it appears Gigabyte tech have told some they shouldn't have updated (since it was for Kaby Lake).

Interesting read:

https://hardforum.com/threads/gigab...-to-f20-now-i-cant-get-into-the-bios.1919135/

That's why I always wait a bit.

 

[UsandThem]

Well, that's interesting. It looks like Gigabyte finally updated their various utility programs, with a date of December 5th and 6th (although they were not on their site at that time). They must have added them late last night or today.

I guess I will be making a quick Windows System Image in case the new apps screw something up, and then I will be trying them out. I can only hope they work, and I'll report back in this thread either way.

 

[UsandThem]

That was extremely disappointing, again. I have used Gigabyte motherboards for a long time (along with Asus, Asrock, and several now out of business companies as well), but this is ridiculous. I just wish I could come across the older app versions I used without issue, but unfortunately I did not pay attention to the version number before upgrading to the new-look one back in June.

Gigabyte just doesn't seem to support their products as well as their rivals generally do. For example, their latest BIOS version is F6f (not counting the current F20 disaster), and was released in May 2016, It is still in beta status. The Asus board I almost went with (Z170-A) is on BIOS version 3007. So basically Gigabyte has put out the initial BIOS with 5 updates, while Asus has put out the initial version with 14 updates in the same time frame.

I think this could very well be my last Gigabyte board for a while. I won't write them totally off just yet, but they definitely need to improve some things. Very irritated right now because when I saw the new files on their support site, I thought they finally fixed the issues after all these months..........I just don't get it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry that you're having troubles. TBH, I've never had good luck with "mobo utilities", especially Gigabyte's. (Horrible EasyTune6 from S775 / EP45 days comes to mind, was known for BSODing Win7.)

 

[UsandThem]

Sorry that you're having troubles. TBH, I've never had good luck with "mobo utilities", especially Gigabyte's. (Horrible EasyTune6 from S775 / EP45 days comes to mind, was known for BSODing Win7.)

They've never been known for putting out awesome utilities for sure, but now that programs are called "Apps", you must first install their "App Center".

So for people who want to update their BIOS within Windows, monitor temps, control fans, use their overclocking software, etc., they must use the App Center. The problem is there is something majorly broken.

After posting my latest results, I spent another couple hours last night reading through various forums, and I just can't figure out what is broken. I was originally thinking it likely had something to do with having .NET Framework 4.6.2 (Windows 10 Anniversary Update auto installed) instead of version 4.5 listed as requirement on Gigabyte's download page. But I couldn't come across any concrete answers.

I'm just going to email Gigabyte tech support. From what I have read from others, I'm really not expecting a response back. If I do get one, it'll probably be some generic copy and paste job.

 

[UsandThem]

OK, spent another few hours reading around for info, and I came across this thread:

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/28441-gigabyte-beta-bios-1030.html

It's literally over 10,000 posts on Gigabyte products/updates/drivers. It's not easy to quickly find anything. However, I came across a post in there from user 'Stasio' who maintains a list of working drivers/apps/BIOS for Gigabyte:

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...ng-stability-tools-post284763.html#post284763

In this list, he links to 'App Center' version B15.0916.1, and 'SIV' version B15.1112.1. They are quite an older version of the program (older than the last working version I used), but they do work! So the problem with the newer versions not working is definitely on Gigabyte.

Also, if anybody comes across this thread via Google, do not install the latest F20 BIOS. Gigabyte should honestly pull it until they get it fixed because it is basically bricking too many people's systems. I don't think I will be recommending any Gigabyte motherboards going forward in the "Please help me with a build" threads. Very disappointing service with their tech/software team.

 

[Teizo]

Gigabyte really needs to put the fan profiles directly in the BIOS like Asus does.

Does Asus do it on all of their boards, because my Z170X Gaming 7 mobo from Gigabyte has the system fan control option in the bios. For me, it is on the first page M.I.T....the last option listed as Smart Fan 5 Control/Options.

I updated to the F20 bios and have had absolutely no issues whatsover. It is best to update the bios after loading system defaults though from what I understand. Maybe people left their overclocks enabled and that screwed things up for them. Who knows.

 

[UsandThem]

From all the recent Asus board I've dealt with, they allow you to create custom fan profiles right in the BIOS.

As far as the fan options in your BIOS, are you talking about this?:

If so, I know that is there. They allow manual adjustment or "Silent, Normal, or Full Speed". However, Asus gives you this within the BIOS and this is the only thing I miss being able to do within the SIV App:

 

[Teizo]

It is in the bios. I guess your motherboard does not have that option. You can have a custom fan curve for every fan, though normal is just fine for me. My computer is virtually silent under normal loads.

 

[UsandThem]

It is in the bios. I guess your motherboard does not have that option. You can have a custom fan curve for every fan, though normal is just fine for me. My computer is virtually silent under normal loads.

Was your BIOS like that before the F20 BIOS update, or did you get that after you updated?

That right there would solve all of my problems, and I could kick the Gigabyte apps to the curb for good, never messing with them again.

 

[Teizo]

Yes. It was there. The F20 bios just updated it to Smart Fan 5 I believe. I'm not really sure what changed, except maybe just a name update to go along with Kaby Lake support.

 

[UsandThem]

Yes. It was there. The F20 bios just updated it to Smart Fan 5 I believe. I'm not really sure what changed, except maybe just a name update to go along with Kaby Lake support.

They must make a custom BIOS for their "gaming" motherboards then. It's crazy to think they don't give that same level of customization on their "Ultra Durable" lineup, as I paid $190 for the board when it first launched. Asus pretty much offers the advanced fan profile across their entire lineup.

Oh well, I guess if it gets added to the BIOS at some point, great. If not, I will just have to deal with it. I think the days of me wasting time trying to figure out why their newer utilities don't work properly (or at all) are over. I think I have been trying to get their new apps to work since June. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". I think I have reached that point.

 

[Teizo]

They must make a custom BIOS for their "gaming" motherboards then. It's crazy to think they don't give that same level of customization on their "Ultra Durable" lineup, as I paid $190 for the board when it first launched. Asus pretty much offers the advanced fan profile across their entire lineup.

Oh well, I guess if it gets added to the BIOS at some point, great. If not, I will just have to deal with it. I think the days of me wasting time trying to figure out why their newer utilities don't work properly (or at all) are over. I think I have been trying to get their new apps to work since June. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". I think I have reached that point.

I agree totally that the UD5 should have the same bios as the Gaming Series. I really don't see how much different they really can be. I like this board, but I will say that if I had to do it over again I very likely would use Asus, but I got this board on sale for a decent price and my very first custom build had a Gigabyte mobo that held up well...and so far this board has exceeded my expectations.

 

[UsandThem]

I agree totally that the UD5 should have the same bios as the Gaming Series. I really don't see how much different they really can be. I like this board, but I will say that if I had to do it over again I very likely would use Asus, but I got this board on sale for a decent price and my very first custom build had a Gigabyte mobo that held up well...and so far this board has exceeded my expectations.

Build and quality wise, my board is great. However, if they are going to put out all of these 'apps', they need to put out at least a decent, working version. I actually went with it over the Asus Z-170A, which was on sale and around $50 cheaper than the UD5. At the time, the Asus board was getting hammered by bad reviews (most likely a lot of user error because Skylake had just launched).

I've used a lot of different brand's motherboards over the years, and outside of an Abit and Soyo board in the late 90's - early 00's, I have had pretty good luck with my choices because I really research something before I buy it. I knew going in that this board didn't have the custom fan curve in the BIOS like some of their competitors do, but I figured running one utility would be fine, and it was really perfect for the first 7-8 months until they updated their entire 'app' lineup.

From what I have read, the new F20 update will give me the fan profile inside of the UEFI, but there seems to be quite a few posts out there of it causing some pretty nasty issues. It's likely some boards in their lineup won't have any issues, but there are quite a few upset owners on the TonyMacX86 and Tweaktown forums, and on Gigabyte's own support forum. So as much as I want to tweak my fans back to my liking, I will wait a bit until there are a few more revisions released.

 

[Spicedaddy]

I've had a Z170X-UD5 since last July, running the F5 BIOS and it's been perfectly stable. I don't use any of their Windows apps though, so I can't comment on that.

I did try the F20 Beta version when they put it up on their site, but had a bug where one of the onboard NICs would show up as a removable device. I went back to F5 and haven't upgraded to F20 Final since they now say you can't downgrade afterwards. I'd recommend waiting for an update or two before upgrading to the new BIOS interface unless you really need Kaby Lake support. My guess is the new BIOS interface is designed for Z270 boards, and those aren't even out yet.

 

[energee]

As far as the PWM question, I have 2 PWM (exhaust and CPU) fans hooked to my motherboard (the rest are 3-pin, and on a controller). You'll have to look in your manual for the detailed info (mine is on page 26). The only true PWM connector on my board is the CPU_FAN connection.

The pinout of the fan headers on my board (Z170X-Gaming 7) -- and all of Gigabyte's recent models so far as I can tell -- look the same. I found it confusing that the CPU fan header definition was different from the system fan headers, yet both were 4-pin. That the former was clearly PWM was a strong hint that the others were not, but why they also had 4 pins remained a mystery to me.

I guess I'll stick to 3-pin case fans on this board, as that definitely seems like the safest option. You mentioned using a PWM fan for exhaust: is that connected to the CPU_FAN header by a splitter? I'm under the assumption that a PWM fan would run at full speed from a SYS_FAN header.

Thanks for the heads up about the F20 update. Updating the UEFI to F20 was actually the first thing I did after booting the system for the first time. I haven't noticed any adverse consequences as a result, but I also have no baseline from which to compare. I did spend some time looking into the issue, mostly in Gigabyte-specific forums, and intend to comment more in a separate post later on -- presently wrestling with stubborn software.

Happy New Year.

 

[UsandThem]

I guess I'll stick to 3-pin case fans on this board, as that definitely seems like the safest option. You mentioned using a PWM fan for exhaust: is that connected to the CPU_FAN header by a splitter? I'm under the assumption that a PWM fan would run at full speed from a SYS_FAN header.

I have my exhaust hooked up to Sys_fan1. Different fans behave differently on the "faux PWM" headers.

The first fan I tried back there was the Fractal Design GP-14 fan (3-pin) that came with my case. It would only work at full speed no matter what. The next one was a Noctua NF-A14 FLX (3-pin) and it didn't have any issues being controlled via the SIV fan app. The last and current one is a Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 fan (4-pin), and upon the first system start it automatically went to full speed. After I tuned it in the SIV app, it worked fine. Even after I uninstalled the app, it works like a typical PWM fan based on my BIOS settings (normal), but runs a little slower at the setting than it did when I had my custom fan profile in the SIV app.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I do not know who Gigabyte hired for there apps, but they better tell that person to write better software.
I have a GA-F2A75M-HD2 FM2 motherboard and it works perfectly, i never have crashes. But that app center is horrible. It is slow as hell. I see the mouse cursor constantly change into the busy symbol every second and the app freezes. The old motherboard utilities i had for windows 7 worked fine and transparent but the app center software is just plain horrible.
I start the app center it there are no error logs. And then this happens as soon as i open SIV :

thermald
System.InvalidOperationException: De bewerking is ongeldig vanwege de huidige staat van het object. bij thermald.MainWindow.RetrieveSmartFanConfigs(List`1& pSmartFanConfigs) bij thermald.MainWindow.InitHardwareMonitorObjects()

This is from the windows event log.

edit:
It is in dutch, i have no idea what it means. I think it means some illegal action is performed.

 

[energee]

I have my exhaust hooked up to Sys_fan1. Different fans behave differently on the "faux PWM" headers.

The first fan I tried back there was the Fractal Design GP-14 fan (3-pin) that came with my case. It would only work at full speed no matter what. The next one was a Noctua NF-A14 FLX (3-pin) and it didn't have any issues being controlled via the SIV fan app. The last and current one is a Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 fan (4-pin), and upon the first system start it automatically went to full speed. After I tuned it in the SIV app, it worked fine. Even after I uninstalled the app, it works like a typical PWM fan based on my BIOS settings (normal), but runs a little slower at the setting than it did when I had my custom fan profile in the SIV app.

That's strange. I have a Fractal Design GP-14 on exhaust connected to SYS_FAN1, and by default it spins bit over 500 RPM with no load, which if I'm not mistaken equates to about 50% its rated speed.

I was debating whether to add the Noctua NF-A14 FLX or the PWM variant. The former is definitely the "safer" choice, but PWM is desirable if supported.

Concerning the F120 update: it's possible to reflash back to an earlier revision regardless of what Gigabyte claims, but it might be a bit of a hassle and require additional steps, from what I've read. When/if you decide to give it a try, I'd suggest a "load optimized defaults" from the UEFI both before and after flashing. I always use Gigabyte's builtin "Q-Flash" -- never Windows -- to load new firmware from a USB stick. If you need to roll back and conventional methods fail, Stasio linked to utility in the Tweaktown forums that can be run from DOS. I can send you the link and/or files; you need only ask.

Here's an older review of the Z170X-Gaming-7:
https://techreport.com/review/29072/gigabyte-z170x-gaming-7-motherboard-reviewed/3

From that it seems clear that the improved fan control on the Gaming 7 were added through a firmware update. I would certainly hope those improvements are made available for other board models. If the latest available firmware for your board doesn't already have them, I would contact Gigabyte's Tech Support.