ghosting

[jadbox1]

i have heard alot of talk about ghosting with monitors 16ms or over
well today i got a 19" lcd from office max for $200 at the time i didnt know what the ms was.
well after reading a bit i leanred it was 15+10 25 ms
so i have ied it and have no probs with fear,css, quake4

does that mean i will never have problems or will ghosting start after a while?

i hope not cos it is workin g great

 

[davet11]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on this forum about what ghosting actually is. There are 3 basic terms used in LCDs that really need to be clarified:

1) ghosting: let's say you have a black background with an icon on it. Ghosting would be if you looked very closely and you could see a very very faint "copy" of the icon next to the original. Like a "ghost" of it a mm away (or less).

2) motion blur: this is what the ms response time is actually referring to. Basically the image looking "blurry" with moving object. Good way to test for this is the marquee screensaver.

3) lag: this is NOT motion blur. This is an actual delay in what you input (with a keyboard/mouse/etc.) and what appears on the screen. This is not mentioned in any specs for LCD monitors, but it does exist.

----------------------

Now for your question, I really have no idea, but I do know that you don't mean ghosting.

 

[jadbox1]

im just wondering if i dont have ghosting now can it show up in the future?

 

[jadbox1]

anyone?

 

[Azndude51]

Originally posted by: davet11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on this forum about what ghosting actually is. There are 3 basic terms used in LCDs that really need to be clarified:

1) ghosting: let's say you have a black background with an icon on it. Ghosting would be if you looked very closely and you could see a very very faint "copy" of the icon next to the original. Like a "ghost" of it a mm away (or less).

2) motion blur: this is what the ms response time is actually referring to. Basically the image looking "blurry" with moving object. Good way to test for this is the marquee screensaver.

3) lag: this is NOT motion blur. This is an actual delay in what you input (with a keyboard/mouse/etc.) and what appears on the screen. This is not mentioned in any specs for LCD monitors, but it does exist.

----------------------

Now for your question, I really have no idea, but I do know that you don't mean ghosting.

No, everything I've read about ghosting both on and off the forum seem to have a similar definition to your motion blur definition.

From CNET Glossary:
1) A visual phenomenon in LCDs and other digital displays where an image moves faster than the display can redraw it, thereby leaving a trail of former versions of the image in the wake of the redrawn image Ghosting might also be called trailing or streaking. As LCDs evolve, faster pixel-response times are reducing the ghosting problem.

From Wikipedia:
A problem in LCD screens when tiny pixels creating the image take time to switch on and off and can't do it fast enough. The problem, widely recognized as the main drawback of LCD screens, is apparent in fast moving objects such as tennis balls, but even slower moving images get fuzzy.



OP, if you can't see ghosting now, there should be no reason for it to appear later, unless you play something that has even faster moving images than you have now. It could also just be that you just don't notice the ghosting, I can see ghosting on my friend's 16ms LCD, but he can't.

 

[fierydemise]

You just aren't that sensitive to ghosting, you may get more sensitive to it in the future but you monitor will not suddenly start ghosting

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: fierydemise
You just aren't that sensitive to ghosting, you may get more sensitive to it in the future but you monitor will not suddenly start ghosting

there ya go.

don't go looking for things that don't bother you. like when people ask for programs to test for dead pixels

 

[jadbox1]

thanks guys....i dont notice a thing so i will keep it

 

[davet11]

Originally posted by: Azndude51

Originally posted by: davet11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on this forum about what ghosting actually is. There are 3 basic terms used in LCDs that really need to be clarified:

1) ghosting: let's say you have a black background with an icon on it. Ghosting would be if you looked very closely and you could see a very very faint "copy" of the icon next to the original. Like a "ghost" of it a mm away (or less).

2) motion blur: this is what the ms response time is actually referring to. Basically the image looking "blurry" with moving object. Good way to test for this is the marquee screensaver.

3) lag: this is NOT motion blur. This is an actual delay in what you input (with a keyboard/mouse/etc.) and what appears on the screen. This is not mentioned in any specs for LCD monitors, but it does exist.

----------------------

Now for your question, I really have no idea, but I do know that you don't mean ghosting.

No, everything I've read about ghosting both on and off the forum seem to have a similar definition to your motion blur definition.

From CNET Glossary:
1) A visual phenomenon in LCDs and other digital displays where an image moves faster than the display can redraw it, thereby leaving a trail of former versions of the image in the wake of the redrawn image Ghosting might also be called trailing or streaking. As LCDs evolve, faster pixel-response times are reducing the ghosting problem.

From Wikipedia:
A problem in LCD screens when tiny pixels creating the image take time to switch on and off and can't do it fast enough. The problem, widely recognized as the main drawback of LCD screens, is apparent in fast moving objects such as tennis balls, but even slower moving images get fuzzy.



OP, if you can't see ghosting now, there should be no reason for it to appear later, unless you play something that has even faster moving images than you have now. It could also just be that you just don't notice the ghosting, I can see ghosting on my friend's 16ms LCD, but he can't.

It's funny, because in this article it specifically says "motion blur is commonly misnamed as ghosting, which will be explained later", but, it doesn't explain it later:

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2400

 

[mindless1]

To clarify a bit, there is more than one potential cause of "ghosting". When CNET et al call motion blur, ghosting, they are really doing a disservice by not being more specific than "ghosting" and even worse to try to define ghosting as only one of the possible definitions.

Ghosting has always meant a secondary (or more) image(s) offset from the original but can occur from signal reception problems in over-air TV sets, or poor analog cable runs to an LCD or CRT monitor, as well as the slow pixel problems seen with fast montion on LCDs. In the computer industry, the poor analog cabling was by far the most predominant cause up until the last couple years or so with everybody-and-their-brother now buying LCDs. So in theory one could even have multiple ghosts or causes of ghosting on their new LCD if not using DVI, though due to the nature of LCDs, they are of course more likely to suffer ghosting from the slow pixels than a bad cable run.

 

[Zebo]

noobs call it ghosting - that's fine we all know they are talking about motion blur since ghosting has been largly eliminated.

Anyway great you don't notice - I wish I had that luxury getting seasick even on the fastest LCD's thus forced into using a CRT while gaming. Would love to get this 22" 75+ lb Mitsubishi off my desk.

 

[davet11]

Originally posted by: Zebo
noobs call it ghosting - that's fine we all know they are talking about motion blur since ghosting has been largly eliminated.

Anyway great you don't notice - I wish I had that luxury getting seasick even on the fastest LCD's thus forced into using a CRT while gaming. Would love to get this 22" 75+ lb Mitsubishi off my desk.

Thanks, I thought I had my definitions completely off.

I'd really like to know what is going on with the thin CRT technology. Even though it was never as thin as an LCD, it was definitely a step up ... never saw it really take off though ...

 

[Azndude51]

Originally posted by: mindless1
To clarify a bit, there is more than one potential cause of "ghosting". When CNET et al call motion blur, ghosting, they are really doing a disservice by not being more specific than "ghosting" and even worse to try to define ghosting as only one of the possible definitions.

Ghosting has always meant a secondary (or more) image(s) offset from the original but can occur from signal reception problems in over-air TV sets, or poor analog cable runs to an LCD or CRT monitor, as well as the slow pixel problems seen with fast montion on LCDs. In the computer industry, the poor analog cabling was by far the most predominant cause up until the last couple years or so with everybody-and-their-brother now buying LCDs. So in theory one could even have multiple ghosts or causes of ghosting on their new LCD if not using DVI, though due to the nature of LCDs, they are of course more likely to suffer ghosting from the slow pixels than a bad cable run.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[HybridSquirrel]

could high fps cause more ghosting? like if the monitor cant keep up or something

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: HybridSquirrel
could high fps cause more ghosting? like if the monitor cant keep up or something

No, but having a framerate higher than the monitor refresh rate causes other visual artifacts (like texture tearing).

Obviously you'll see more motion blur 'ghosting' in scenes with more moving objects or objects that are moving faster. It's also usually less visible on transitions between very different colors (or light/dark shades) than on similar shades of the same color (so-called 'grey-to-grey' color transitions).

 

[HybridSquirrel]

thanks matthias99 that could explain my monitor